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5e D&D is Vaporware
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Prak
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Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 16042

PostPosted: Sat Apr 01, 2017 9:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Oh, sure, 5E has nothing on 3e in terms on amount of content, but there is some mechanical content coming out on a regular basis for 5e. It's just in a trickle.
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Dean, on Paranoia wrote:
The book is a hardbound liars paradox.


Winnah wrote:
No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.


FrankTrollman wrote:
In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.

You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.
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FrankTrollman
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Joined: 07 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 01, 2017 12:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Prak wrote:
Oh, sure, 5E has nothing on 3e in terms on amount of content, but there is some mechanical content coming out on a regular basis for 5e. It's just in a trickle.


The thing is that this content is not even up to the teaser materials that came out plugging each new book back in 3rd edition times. If you just total up the dumb "bonus feats that got cut from the book but we're still putting them online because why the fuck not?" shit that came out with each and every new book during 3.5 or 4e, it's way more than comes out for 5e during comparable time periods. The shit 3.5 left on the counter is more cookies than 5e puts out for their entire everything.

Let's ask Owl Cat to go look at this supposed content stream.



OK.

-Frank
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Voss
Prince


Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 3614

PostPosted: Sat Apr 01, 2017 3:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Prak wrote:
So, I asked a friend's opinion of this product schedule, since they like 5e. They pointed out that a lot of the 5e worldbuilding and new content is being done online, which... is a reasonable business model, conceptually. I can see doing all or at least a lot of your new mechanical stuff as regular web offerings, and saving your print production for adventures and maps and other stuff that would be inconvenient in a web-only format.

But, quality of their product and their web content aside, it seems like that's why 5e's production schedule seems to be a bare trickle. The things that would be filling up four or five additional books a year are being released a few pages at a time online.


Most of which is presented as drafts or playtest versions (some of which actually did wander into the FR adventure book which was done, once again, by a third party).

But, anyway. You said reasonable business model. It is not. Posting napkin drafts on a website for free isn't a business model at all. If there were full versions or tie in products to buy somewhere it might be, but at this point it's less of a business model than fanfics or webcomics, where many authors know about online tip jars or patreon.
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Prak
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 01, 2017 6:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I think the business model of publishing crunch online in articles and printing adventures and other "this would be a pain in the ass to use at the table in an online only format" things is a reasonable model.

I do not think WotC is following that model with any kind of competency.
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Dean, on Paranoia wrote:
The book is a hardbound liars paradox.


Winnah wrote:
No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.


FrankTrollman wrote:
In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.

You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.
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Voss
Prince


Joined: 07 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 01, 2017 7:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Competency isn't really the issue. Granted Hasbro doesn't have any great demands or expectations of the D&D branch of the WotC office (beyond 'don't be in the red'). But in 2017 they're seriously paying a handful of people to make blank pages, reprint old shit and license someone else to reprint old shit. An intern can handle the scanning and using Word for an hour to create a character sheet, so Mearls and company must watch an awful lot of porn in the office, because they seriously have no jobs to do.

But when D&D made money, they made it through crunch books. Modules became a thing they didn't like to do, because they didn't get much in returns on modules.

Offering no crunch to buy, and shitting out mechanical doodles with no fluff tie ins (and really no fluff tie ins, as the novel line has been set on fire), isn't just a lack of competence, it's a lack of a business model.

You can do that model with some types of games (particularly minis games, where the real money is in the models, not the books), but that doesn't work when your business is selling books.

At this point, D&D only exists as a placeholder for a licensing IP for crappy board and computer games, and they're barely even pursuing that angle these days (though that may be due somewhat to toxic shock- Sword Coast Legends helped kill its developer off). That could be lack of competence, but lack of a core product is a deliberate choice.


Last edited by Voss on Sat Apr 01, 2017 7:28 pm; edited 5 times in total
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Prak
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 01, 2017 9:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Could that sort of model work for an indie designer? I imagine that's closer to the tip jar/ patreon webcomic sort of deal where you make your money with subscription, merch and special collection stuff
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Dean, on Paranoia wrote:
The book is a hardbound liars paradox.


Winnah wrote:
No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.


FrankTrollman wrote:
In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.

You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.
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MGuy
Prince


Joined: 21 Jul 2009
Posts: 3349
Location: Indiana

PostPosted: Sat Apr 01, 2017 10:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I haven't even thought about the Novels since 4th ed. What is even happening on that front?
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I've always thought it best to never hit a lady, but be sure to beat a bitch. -TOZ
MGuy wrote:
Finally a thread about fighters!
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Voss
Prince


Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 3614

PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 12:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

MGuy wrote:
I haven't even thought about the Novels since 4th ed. What is even happening on that front?


Kersplat, apparently, as of October last year. 'Hero' is the last Drizzit novel, Troy Denning's last novel (featured Orcus, apparently) was renamed, delayed then cancelled, Erin Evans (who did some girl tiefling warlock novels that... could have been good but were saddled with 4e FR as a setting) had a bitter blogpost* in the wake of the last 'Brimstone Angels' novel last year, and Ed Greenwood is supposedly now working on a new 'shared world' for refugee writers.

And those four were their entire stable for the last five years, except for two guys who did two of the six Sundering novels, which were supposed to drag the Realms from the 4e disaster of a setting to the 5e indifference to setting.

My understanding is that Hasbro told whoever at WotC that they were bringing the hammer down, but I don't remember the guy's name or even if that was true. But the authors are certainly moving on and several of them were publically unamused.


*bitter blog post, because those are fun.
http://slushlush.com/
Quote:
The point is weíve come to the end. Itís not the end of me, not the end of my stories, not the end of characters like Farideh and family, but itís the end of the Brimstone Angels Saga. I worked my butt off to get The Devil You Know to you, my darling readers, in time to be published. You get an ending, and having been at this long enough to see lots of series get unceremoniously cut off, I think thatís something precious.


The rush in time to be published is pretty telling in this context, as is the end of the characters (but not characters like those characters).



@prak- maybe once or twice. Generally, the tip jar/patreon model (for webcomics and fanfiction) requires the audience to be established already and it's a huge hill to climb for newcomers. For the former a lot of the big success stories are never going to be repeated and the latter is largely subsistence level/ supplemental in the _very_ best case scenarios.

So if you've got a giant pile of quality shit to dribble out to build an audience, you can turn around and ask for monies on an ongoing basis in a few years. No idea if it would actually work for something like game design, though. In several ways I'd hope not, because that would encourage even more broken up bullshit in an industry full of shenanigans and unfinished products being sold for actual money.

It works a lot better for artists, because they're expected to sell individual pieces anyway.


Last edited by Voss on Sun Apr 02, 2017 12:46 am; edited 1 time in total
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Shrieking Banshee
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Joined: 29 Sep 2015
Posts: 113
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 6:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Man its wierd. I just leveled up to 7 in our campaign, and it's so hollow. Playing a cleric even and I don't know what to advance because the 4rth level cleric spells are a dull lull point. Nothing exciting or really world changing.

I can give every edition allot of shit, but 5e made leveling up at level 7 unexciting. How is that even possible.
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Voss
Prince


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 6:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Its 5e. You don't 'advance' anything, because you don't have any choices to make. As a cleric your last meaningful choice was picking a domain at level 1. Some classes 'get' to delay that until 3rd level.

As for 4th level spells, yeah, probably you'll want to look at your domain spells, assuming you weren't an idiot in choosing a domain. failing that you can always be obnoxious with divination. Or cast spiritual weapon as a 4th level spell to make fighters feel small in the pants.
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TOZ
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Joined: 29 Oct 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 5:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Goodman Games to update old 1E modules for 5E.
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amethal
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Joined: 09 Mar 2012
Posts: 28

PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 8:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

TOZ wrote:
Goodman Games to update old 1E modules for 5E.
That's one way of putting it.

Seems like it is a luxury collector's hardback with umpteen different versions of B1 and B2, together with lots of interviews, commentary and extra encounters. I can't see anyone buying this strange accumulation of disparate parts, but what do I know?
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Pedantic
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Joined: 09 Feb 2012
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 2:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

amethal wrote:
TOZ wrote:
Goodman Games to update old 1E modules for 5E.
That's one way of putting it.

Seems like it is a luxury collector's hardback with umpteen different versions of B1 and B2, together with lots of interviews, commentary and extra encounters. I can't see anyone buying this strange accumulation of disparate parts, but what do I know?


Literally three people I know on Facebook have shared the story independently, all of them older D&D players with fond memories. I think there's a market, specifically as a luxury collector's item.
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