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Paradox Buys White Wolf from CCP
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Mask_De_H
Duke


Joined: 18 Jun 2009
Posts: 1727

PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 8:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Voss wrote:
It had a prime time tv show on fox in the aftermath of Buffy* that failed miserably, being too confusing for the general audience and too hand wavy for the True Fans.

*with a number of cast members that were monsters of the week or short arc adversaries on Buffy.

The IP isn't good for a general audience, because it's just now+weird ass terminology that means nothing or something real that is entirely different (see Antediluvian, Brujah and Jyhad). It can work for computer games, because a larger chunk of the audience there is looking for clan names, wacky power terms, and lexicon terms to nerd out to. With the TV show (and possible future TV shows and films), people hear a litany of gibberish nonsense and tune out- even though they toned it down quite a lot for the show. If you strip all that out, you just have a fairly terrible generic vampire show.


Dude, what? Now+bullshit terminology is every urban fantasy thing on TV. You honestly thing the market is less accepting of that after True Blood, The Magicians, various superhero serials and Game of Thrones?

With some focus and a competent hack at the helm, a nuVamp TV series could at least settle into comfortable mediocrity on SyFy or something.
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Mechalich
Knight-Baron


Joined: 04 Nov 2015
Posts: 606

PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 11:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Look, The Vampire Diaries, which is soap-ified version of what VtM (and to an extent the entire oWoD, it has werewolves and mages too) always wanted to be has gone 8 fucking seasons with no signs of stopping and managed to spawn The Originals as a multi-season spin-off. Both series have drunk deep from the Teen Choice Awards. The interest is there.

Both shows have all sorts of absurdly arcane terminology and tons of bullshit effects and it doesn't seem to bother the audience.

Attempting to replicate the feel of those shows, across various media, is probably what needs to be done with Vampire now. For TV I'd go across to Europe since the game seems to still be very popular there, and Vampire Diaries is firmly nestled in the US. A teen VtM soap set in London or Paris with a suitably hot cast (this is depressingly important to the primarily female audience that follows this stuff religiously) and maybe a single recognizable lead - pick a decently famous British person from Game of Thrones for some nerd cred - could absolutely work.
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Whipstitch
Prince


Joined: 29 Apr 2011
Posts: 2837

PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 1:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

It's not that those shows don't mean anything, it's that they demonstrably didn't need the V:TM intellectual property to succeed. At the end of the day vampires are public domain whether you want to make The Strain, True Blood, Twilight or fucking Blacula. In this world of Comicon panels and internet promotion I'm not sure actually owning the WW IP and being indebted to the hardcore fans is that much more valuable than making the appropriate noises of deference and promising edginess for some and miniature American flags for others. It's certainly possible, but it's a math problem I don't know enough about to answer.
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Last edited by Whipstitch on Sun Mar 19, 2017 1:29 am; edited 1 time in total
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Mechalich
Knight-Baron


Joined: 04 Nov 2015
Posts: 606

PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 3:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Whipstitch wrote:
It's not that those shows don't mean anything, it's that they demonstrably didn't need the V:TM intellectual property to succeed. At the end of the day vampires are public domain whether you want to make The Strain, True Blood, Twilight or fucking Blacula. In this world of Comicon panels and internet promotion I'm not sure actually owning the WW IP and being indebted to the hardcore fans is that much more valuable than making the appropriate noises of deference and promising edginess for some and miniature American flags for others. It's certainly possible, but it's a math problem I don't know enough about to answer.


That's a fair point. I suppose it is an open question whether or not the WW IP brings a benefit or a cost to making an all-myths-are-true modern monster soap.

I think there are benefits, if, if, you manage it correctly. Correctly being a Camarilla city with the core clans doing the kind of gothy-politics stuff that the various LARPs got up to is useful and the idea of vampire clans - as stupid as many of the VtM clans are - is useful in a large-cast drama like TV or a video game. However, those benefits may be marginal and not worth the baggage.

Part of the question is also one of age. VtM is old and has been dead - for Onyx Path values of dead - for over a decade. Modern supernatural soaps are generally pitched younger - mostly at teenage and college girls. In the mid-nineties that would have had a huge overlap with the VtM player base, now, probably not so much.
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FrankTrollman
Serious Badass


Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 26753

PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 8:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

But True Blood and Vampire Diaries were based on books. True Blood is based on The Southern Vampire Mysteries and The Vampire Diaries is based on a book series that is also called The Vampire Diaries.

The World of Darkness has more setting elements to use than most such book series, but way less plot. So converting it to a series would be a bit harder. But the overall value would be about the same, and you would never run into the problem of needing another season when the next book isn't done because so long as you ignore the Final Nights garbage, everthing is open ended and there's no real plot to diverge from.

Remember that the underlying quality of the writing of the book series has very little to do with the quality of the adapted TV show. I think we can all agree that Dresden Files is a much better book series than most of the other Urban Fantasy shlock, but when they made a TV series out of it they made a half season Syfy abortion. Making a V:tM TV series would have precisely the same chance at being a big hit or a flop as any other Urban Fantasy adaptation. Vampire Academy is insanely popular in this genre and the movie they made out of it was kind of a mess and flopped at the box office.

Now the thing to remember here is that there's no particular reason to want to make a World of Darkness TV show rather than adapt the Mercy Thompson Mooncalled books or the Jane Yellowrock Skinwalker books. And the fact that V:tM already made a TV show that failed makes going after Anita Blake or Georgina Kincaid. It would be entirely reasonable to make a new TV show about Ventrue, but it would be just as reasonable to make a show from the Night Huntress or Already Dead series.

For V:tM to be turned into a new series, they pretty much have to randomly find some producer in Hollywood or Vancouver who happens to be a big fan and wants to make a show about Malkavians who are also Private Eyes or some fucking thing like the really cool campaign they ran while they were in college. If they can't find that, there's no show. Because no random producer is going to want to finance a show based on an interchangeable property that already failed on TV once in the nineties back when it was at its most popular as a book series.

-Frank
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Voss
Prince


Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 3537

PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 6:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

@Mask and Mecha- I don't watch TV, so other than Game of Thrones I had no idea any of that existed (and that only because people won't fucking shut up about it).

But given that they DO exist... the idea that there would be a demand for a new version of a failed TV show based on a tabletop game... how would that be justified?

There aren't any meaningful or memorable characters or actual plot elements to transition to TV, and the only thing converting it to a mediocre SciFi channel or CW (does that network even still exist anymore?) show would do is clean it up and take some of the creepy-as-fuck shit out, which would do little but enrage the tiny surviving fanbase.

That isn't much incentive for a studio to do it, rather than, say, serialize Ann Rice or any of the really literally dozens of actually popular vampire or werewolf teen shit series running around. There has been a long string of vampire shows including buffy, forever knight and all the way back to dark shadows. Plus whatever modern shit is running around, and also-rans like whatever that 'new amsterdam' thing was a few years back. 'But a nostalgic look at a dead TTRPG' isn't a quality that any studio is going to look for.
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K
King


Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 6226

PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 1:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Mechalich wrote:
Look, The Vampire Diaries, which is soap-ified version of what VtM (and to an extent the entire oWoD, it has werewolves and mages too) always wanted to be has gone 8 fucking seasons with no signs of stopping ...


The Vampire Diaries literally aired their series finale on March 20.
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Aspirinsmurf
NPC


Joined: 03 Aug 2016
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 6:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Voss wrote:
It had a prime time tv show on fox in the aftermath of Buffy* that failed miserably, being too confusing for the general audience and too hand wavy for the True Fans.


Actually, Kindred: the Embraced first aired a year before Buffy the Vampire Slayer.
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