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virgil
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2014 10:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Can Jingle be used to 'delete' memories by using counterfacts with higher veracity than the original? Can data subject to Misplace be recovered, or am I misunderstanding how this program works? Is Taxman essentially mind-reading, and how large can a file be from an organic source?
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Grek
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 13, 2014 12:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

According to my reading: Yes, yes and no. Jingle doesn't make the victim forget, but does make them disbelieve the lower veracity memory. Misplaced data is recovered using Recover, unsurprisingly. Taxman lets you make an organic target send you any computer format files they have stored in their brain. You need Brain Scan in order to get brain format data into a usable computer format.
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Lokathor
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 13, 2014 1:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

In terms of how much data can be within a brain at one time, "more than your commlink itself can hold on its own, but not so much that you can't get an extension module to hold a brain-copy if you need".

Like having raw BluRay files sitting around, you're probably gonna keep it on an external drive.
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Lokathor
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PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2016 5:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

The PDF version of this from before has essentially been lost to the ages of time.

However, I've put it up as a Gitbook. You can view it on the site (and it's mobile friendly), or you can download epub / pdf / mobi versions.

It's not as fancy as the PDF from before, but the site or the epub will look a lot better on your phone, so I consider it a win.
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Lathander
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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2016 8:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

OK, question. does the rating of a fake SIN denote its veracity? and if, to quote the text, "if you keep telling the same lie for long enough it becomes truth" is true then does that mean that the rating of a fake SIN increases with use? and what effect would this have?

I was toying with an idea where if you have multiple identities and fail an ID check (both rolls) there is a chance that the system will make the connection and link them and perhaps put an identity fraud flag on the ID with higher veracity and effectively burning the other one. this might give the SINner negative quality some actual teeth.


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Lokathor
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PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2016 7:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Rating = Veracity is pretty much how I've played it with my group.

I don't think that simply using the SIN at all would improve the veracity by much within a time frame that a game runs though. Fake SINs are rated 1-6 in the book, and that's already all the way up to "Corp SIN" in the veracity chart. It's only a thousand per rating, so most players will probably just have rating 6 versions after a while. The difficult part is the availability of course; you can only start the game with a Fake SIN of rating 4 or less ("repeated news story").
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JesterZero
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PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2016 9:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Lokathor wrote:
The PDF version of this from before has essentially been lost to the ages of time.

Nothing is ever truly lost:
That being said, the Git version might be better for whatever reason, but if you're looking for history...there you go.
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FrankTrollman
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PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2016 8:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Conceptually, making a fake ID stronger is simply about using it over and over again and building up a trail of references that the ID exists and is legitimate. Like building a credit rating in 2016.

For purposes of the game, it's unlikely that the players are going to keep any fake ID long enough or use it widely enough for there to be a need for a mechanic for that happening.

-Frank
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Posivated
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2016 6:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

So I just started playing SR4 and am playing a hacker and just found this and I have read through the PDF and through this thread but no one has mentioned anything about the Agent program in the SR4 matrix program section. Unless I missed it, but I know it isn't in the PDF either. Is it that with this alternate ruleset they don't exist?
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Lokathor
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2016 7:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I'm not super familiar with what an Agent does, but if it's a program sort of thing that can do things on its own then in this version of rules that'd be either IC (which is very limited, but suitable for people to have as basically a "pet" when they're in a fight), a Sprite (which is like the Technomancer version of a Spirit they can summon), or an AI (which is a rare form of NPC that generally uses the Sprite rules).
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Grek
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2016 2:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Agents are decker drones. You command them just like drones, and they take hacking actions autonomously until crashed or recalled.
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echoVanguard
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2016 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Grek wrote:
Agents are decker drones. You command them just like drones, and they take hacking actions autonomously until crashed or recalled.

This is possibly the single best explanation of Agents in SR I have ever seen.

echo
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mlangsdorf
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 11:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I want to do an example of play, and would appreciate someone checking my work.

"Hotrod" is a newbie Shadowrunner. Relevant stats are Reaction 5, Intuition 4, Logic 5 (7), Willpower/Edge 3. Skills include Cracking 4, EW 6, Electronics 4, Perception 3. He a specialization in Hacking (Exploits). Relevant ware is an Encephlaon 2, Internal Commlink*, Internal SimRig, Cerebral Booster 2.

*Comlink Stats: Response 5, Signal 5, System 5, Firewall 5, Redundant Filters 2. Analysis: Backtrack 4, Who Is 4; Attack: Crash 4, Seizure 4; Comm: ECCM 4, Intercept 3; Exploit: Backdoor 5, Master Control 4; Operations: Armor 2, Terminate Connection 3.

Hotrod's team is chasing Woomis, a bar owner who has the old CD-ROM they're seeking. Woomis flees out the back of the bar and Hotrod's team follows him into a junkyard. Another street sam, an ork mage, and a trio of goons are waiting; Woomis hides while the two teams exchange words. Negotiations break down and both sides start aggressive diplomacy.

Riss, the rival Street Sam, has R6, I4, L3, W 3, Wired Reflexes 2, and EW 1. His internal CommLink has Response 4, Signal 4, System 4, Firewall 4, Redundant Filters 4, and no other programs.

Hotrod rolls 3 hits for initiative versus Riss' (somewhat improbable) 0. For simplicity, I'm only rolling initiative once and fixing the order and I'm skipping over the rolls for other people.

*** Round 1 ***
IP 1
Hotrod: Hotrod moves to cover as a non-action. He crouches as a free action. With a complex action, he toggles VR (he's already running hot). He gets 3 IP.
Riss: Took a full defense action to avoid being shot by the samurai on Hotrod's team. Also moves to cover.
IP 2
Hotrod: Nothing yet.
Riss: Exchanges fire futilely with the street samuari.
IP 3
Hotrod: Nothing yet.
Riss: Forced to take a full defense action.

*** Round 2 ***
IP 1
Hotrod: At less than 30 meters, Hotrod is easily in handshake range of Riss' network. He wants to Seize Network, but that won't work against an internal commlink. He takes a Complex Action to Seize Riss. Hotrod rolls 7+4, opposed by Riss' Firewall of 4 and Signal Defense of 1. Hotrod gets 1 hit, Riss gets 2, and the attempt fails.
Riss: Riss wants to put a bullet in the hacker, but he's pinned down by the samurai. He takes a shot at the samurai and moves to get to a better position.
IP 2
Hotrod: tries the Seize again. This time he gets 6 hits, but he's limited to 5 by the program rating. Riss resists with 2 hits. The RBFB filters kick in, and he soaks with 3+4 (Willpower + Filter) for another 2 hits. Riss' Wired Reflexes don't help him here, and he is incapacitated for the next 5 rounds before he can Willpower + Filters to cancel the last hit and recover.
Riss: collapses in a heap, unable to do anything.
IP 3: The opposing mage doesn't have an internal commlink, and he's nearby. Hotrod attempts to Seize Network, rolling 7+6 versus the the mage's Logic of 5 and EW of 2. Hotrod gets 5 hits, the ork gets 1 hit, and Hotrod adds the ork's commlink to his PAN.

*** Round 3 ***
IP 1:
Ork Mage: The Ork doesn't know what's going to happen to him next, but he knows it won't possibly be good. He casts Trid Entertainment to make an illusion of smoke and break LoS. He gets 2 hits and proceeds to choke on the drain, inflicting a severe stun on himself.
Meanwhile, Hotrod resists the illusion. He rolls his Intuition, boosted by a friendly mage's Counterspell of 6 (base 4, with a specialization in Illusions). He gets 3 hits, and can see through it.
Hotrod: drops the hammer on the ork, with another Seize. He gets 3 hits. The orc doesn't know Cyberwarfare and doesn't have a friendly hacker providing signal defense, and no longer has a commlink to provide a firewall or biofilters. He soaks with his Willpower of 4, for 0 hits, and starts flailing around. He won't be able to even attempt to get out of the seizure for 5 rounds, and even then he needs to get 3 hits on his Willpower soak to recover.
IP 2:
With the competent members of the opposition down, it's trivial for Hotrod's allies to clean up the last three goons. Hotrod takes a complex action to exit VR in preparation for tying up the goons and stealing their pocket change.


Did I get all that right? I think I did, but SR4e in general and EotM in particular are kind of complicated.
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virgil
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PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 7:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

From what I can tell, there are three programs for incapacitating organic fools: Continuous RAS Override, Seize, and Sensory Deprivation. Is it me, or is Seize absolutely the best of the three? The duration on it is a minimum of [Rating] rounds before allowing a simple stat test to break, while the other two are sustained and can be broken out of with an action and Stat+Skill.
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Lokathor
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PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 5:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Well, let's review:

Contagious RAS Override
  • B / S / CA (S)
  • Logic + Cybercombat vs Firewall + Willpower + SigDef
  • Willpower (NetHits) to take physical action, and even then the action is at -6.
  • CA and a Logic+Computer (NetHits) test to end this condition (note that failed tests don't accumulate).

    Sensory Deprivation
  • B / S (LOS) / CA (S)
  • Logic + Electronic Warefare vs Firewall + Willpower + SigDef
  • Target is cut off from their physical senses (I guess treat as Full Darkness or something?)
  • CA and a Logic+Computer (NetHits) test to end this condition (note that failed tests don't accumulate).

    Seize
  • B / S (LOS) / CA
  • Logic + Cybercombat vs Firewall + SigDef
  • Then the attacker's net hits are immediately resisted with Willpower+BioFilter (note: this usually means Willpower+System+Firewall, if your opponent isn't shit)
  • If any net hits are still left over you seize for [Rating] rounds before being able to roll again to keep reducing the hits.

    Contagious RAS Override is hard to land, but if you can land a strong one you can probably hold a non-hacker type for a few rounds.

    Sensory Deprivation goes off of an entirely different skill, and a Rigger type for example might be able to use it well even when they don't know as much Cybercombat. Again, vs a non-hacker type you might be able to hold a lock for a while.

    Seize seems good until you read it close and see that the Willpower+BioFeedback roll is in addition to the normal resistance test. Then it's not really much good at all unless your target is naked (like for prison guards, or in a hospital for mental patients, or something).
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    virgil
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    PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 1:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

    All three get to add Biofeedback to the base resist, so the defense is the same. Or does Seize's wording get to functionally add Will + Biofilter a second time?
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    Lokathor
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    PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2017 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

    Contagious RAS Override and Sensory Deprivation use Firewall, but they don't use your Biofeedback Filter rating (which has a base value of your Firewall, but if you're not an idiot you also run a max rating Redundant Biofeedback Filtration program as well, and the max rating there is your System, for a usual Biofeedback Filter value equal to Firewall+System). Not all Bio programs use the Biofeedback Filter rating, these are two of them. Biofeedback filter only applies if the program says that it applies.

    Seize has you roll Logic + Cybercombat vs Firewall + SigDef, and then immediately (before the Seizing happens) the target gets a second roll of Willpower+BioFilter to reduce your net hits. Your program only goes into effect if your hits make it through both stages.
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    Last edited by Lokathor on Sat May 20, 2017 5:47 pm; edited 2 times in total
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    virgil
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    PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2017 8:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

    Is the Redundant Biofeedback Filtration poorly worded then? Because it explicitly says to apply its rating against all B attacks, which Contagious RAS Override & Seize 100% meet the qualifications for; and arguably Sensory Deprivation if "attack" just means program and not attack-category programs.

    Additional Questions
    Does Matrix Perception work like Assensing, in that physical barriers keep you from seeing Icons in the Matrix unless it's either in the same server or has an open connection to you? Can you use Matrix Perception through the 'eyes' of any device in your network with a receiver (like a teammate's commlink), or does it have to be retransmitter?

    Edit: Yet More Questions!
    When even your toaster at home can work off of commands from low-density signals, as well as financial transactions in general, what situations are typical people going to be in that would justify opening a connection with another network?
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    Last edited by virgil on Sun May 21, 2017 4:55 am; edited 2 times in total
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    Lokathor
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    PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2017 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

    Well, I'm not Frank, but I choose to believe that Redundant Biofeedback Filtration adds its rating only on things that already took Biofeedback into account. Redundant Biofeedback Filters don't apply on, for example, Taxman either, even though it can target Bio devices.

    Matrix Perception: This is totally blocked by things that block Signal, including things being out of Signal range. The Line Of Sight element of Matrix Perception is also blocked by line of sight normally, and (I'm making this bit up based on the rest of EotM) you can only pinpoint which network is which physical thing when you have LOS on it, or you use Backtrack or Who Is to trace the Network's location. However, unlike Assensing, you can still sense the presence or absence of networks that aren't within line of sight as being somewhere within your Signal range even when you don't have LOS on them. This normally isn't helpful in a crowded place, but inside a ninja vault it might be a big advantage to at least have a count on how many enemies are lurking somewhere nearby.

    Connections: I'd say that a Connection is needed for real time interaction on anything more than the most basic radiowave / terminal level. So if you want to do office work at a serious speed, then you'd need a Connection. If you want to do programming, you need a Connection. If you want to use the Data Manipulation ability of the Computer skill, you need a Connection. and so on and so forth.
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    Last edited by Lokathor on Sun May 21, 2017 5:35 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    virgil
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    PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2017 7:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

    First, do you need a smartlink system if you've got a sim module and a smartgun? If you do, do you have to attach it to vision enhancement, or can you install it on the smartgun's camera?
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    Stahlseele
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    PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2017 8:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

    SR4 Smartlink is Eye-Ware not its own dedicated system anymore, if Ends did not change that.

    Yes, under SR3 you could build your own piecemeal style and as such kinda sorta save a bit of essence and also hide it in your body, but those rules, like many other things SR3 did well in my eyes, did not make it into SR4 to make it more simple and streamlined.
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    virgil
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    PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2017 8:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

    Stahlseele wrote:
    SR4 Smartlink is Eye-Ware not its own dedicated system anymore, if Ends did not change that.
    It's functionally a dedicated system for my question if you have to buy the feature for your eyeware or goggles. But since smartlink requires an image link for output, and the image link can be supplanted by a sim module, I'm wondering if it needs to be its own piece of hardware as opposed to a background program - and what's to stop you from just adding it to the smartgun's camera?
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    Stahlseele
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    PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2017 9:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

    That's . . actually i never thought about it that way . . hmm . . Yes, technically it should now only a piece of software . . so yes, that is an interesting idea.
    Should work i guess? O.o
    Probably have to run it by and get permission from your GM for it no matter what the answer here will be though . .
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    Lokathor
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    PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2017 1:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

    I would say that you need to buy the Smartlink for both your gun and yourself, and that it's a "hardware" purchase in both cases. Regardless of if you're displaying it through Cybereyes, External Imagelink, Direct AR Injection (ew), or whatever way you try to go.

    Total bullshitting justification time: Smartlink is more than just a camera on the gun, it's a lot of internal sensors for the gun (barrel heat, bullet count, etc), external non-visual sensors when possible (wind detection and such), and also, most importantly, an ultra precise and ultra durable set of accelerometers. Similarly for the portion on or in your body, the most important part is the precision accelerometers. The gun portion and body portion perform a calibration when you first link the smart gun into your PAN, and from then on the data feed from the gun is kept relevant relative to your own person based primarily on accelerometer data. A mis-calibrated smartlink is like a mis-calibrated touchscreen: All your intent goes just a little off from where you really want it to go.

    Stahlseele, note you can buy individual eyeware items, but usually it's pretty silly to do so because you get a huge essence saving from buying the cybereyes and then all the subcomponents with capacity points instead.
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    Stahlseele
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    PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2017 12:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

    Then explain how Technomancers can emulate the Smartlink using an Echo.

    And yes, i know you can buy the vision mods separately from eyes.
    What i meant was that in SR3, you could implant the following:
    Induction Datajack in palm of hand.
    Image Link in eye.
    Ballistic CoProcessor or whatever that third component was.
    And they, in conjunction with each other, formed a "hidden" smartlink.
    Because you did not have the actual smartlink components in your body.
    And all you needed for this was perfectly legal to own and operate too.
    And if you had one or more of those components anyway, you could actually save up to 50% of the essence cost of the smartlink by just installing the missing component to wire it into your existing hardware.
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