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Koumei
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PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2014 1:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Okay, defeated NWN2 base game with Monk 9/Sorc 1/Red Dragon Disciple 10, and I'm pretty happy with it to be honest. sadface.gif about losing most of your stuff (and all of your money) in the transition to MotB, but still, all good.
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zugschef
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PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2014 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Dunno if it is still relevant, but I didn't want to read the entire thread, so in case just ignore this post.

The best party for me in ToEE is two wizards, two clerics and a druid.

The Clerics: You want a cleric with the law and good domain and craft magic arms and armor. That way everybody gets axiomatic holy weapons. The other cleric focuses on combat (can be replaced with a fighter multiclass build). Skills are totally irrelevant for these guys. Get craft wondrous. Sound burst, order's wrath and holy smite are amazing.

The Wizards: Since time is meaningless in ToEE you might as well play a generalist, since losing evocation hurts. There are so many tiny men in this game that casting the occasional fireball does make sense. One of them should put skill points into appraise (+ raven familiar) to get better prices. The other spends points on open lock, iirc there is a chest you can't use knock or warp wood on. If you want one of them can take search (secret doors) and disable device (not really needed since knock and warp wood also destroy any traps in this game). Get craft wondrous. Make them the vest of escape as soon as possible. It provides FoM(!) and counts as masterwork thieves tools. The usual suspects (web, stinking cloud, solid fog, cloudkill) rule. Charm person acts like dominate person.

The Druid: Wildshape is spectacularly craptastic for melee combat, but it does help you ignore the physical stats as soon as you hit level 5. Just keep the druid out of melee range up to that point. Pump up the mental stats and make the druid your spokesman. Try to spend skill points on survival, too, because that way you can ignore some of the pointless wilderness encounters. Get craft wondrous. Ice storm and sleet storm are amazing.

Some tips:
* Blinding your enemy isn't nearly as good as in pnp, which is why glitterdust actually sucks compared to web in this game. Monsters still attack you and giants still deal high amounts of damage.
* Also, use reach weapons (long spear). In this game you can attack adjacent opponents.
* Nearly all relevant opponents are chaotic evil, making axiomatic holy weapons tear up their ass.
* IIRC the halfling hurler doesn't work. No ring of blinking is available and unless you're playing with the circle of eight mod you don't have extra-dimensional storage space. I don't even know if throwing flasks can trigger sneak attack at all.
* Since time doesn't matter, prepared spellcasters rule. Just throw down your best spells and go to rest in a safe place (secret stairs of the temple for example).


Last edited by zugschef on Wed May 14, 2014 6:47 pm; edited 1 time in total
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nockermensch
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PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2014 7:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

You'll be missing the awesome weapon chaotic good types get once you save prince whatever from the temple.

Then again, said weapon plus otiluke's resilient sphere trivialise ALL fights in the game, so you may as well give this ultra-cheese a pass.
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nockermensch
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PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2014 7:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

You'll be missing the awesome weapon chaotic good types get once you save prince whatever from the temple.

Then again, said weapon plus otiluke's resilient sphere trivialise all fights in the game, so you may as well give this ultra-cheese a pass.
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zugschef
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PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2014 7:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

nockermensch wrote:
You'll be missing the awesome weapon chaotic good types get once you save prince whatever from the temple.

Then again, said weapon plus otiluke's resilient sphere trivialise ALL fights in the game, so you may as well give this ultra-cheese a pass.

You can still make use of that weapon. If you kill (or let him die in combat) and then raise the prince, you can even have fragarach and scather, btw.


Last edited by zugschef on Wed May 14, 2014 7:51 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Koumei
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PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2014 12:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

So it turns out it is that prc pack that fucks nwn2 up for me. Such sad.

On the other hand, I found a pack that adds Invocations, Feats and Prestige Classes for the Warlock and doesn't seem to fuck the game up, and a separate Bear Warrior prestige class.
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Koumei
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PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2014 12:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Hmm, and now NWN2 has more problems. I imagine the original crashed at the drop of a hat even before GOG, because "Bioware". But GOG really doesn't have a good track record so far. Well, I've already beaten base game and Mask of the Betrayer, may as well just uninstall again and stick with the first one.

Really, fucking up game coding that badly should be a jailable offence.
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AndreiChekov
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PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2014 7:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Koumei, you can reset the glitches of the game by deleting the save files.
Basically, it means that you wipe everything between campaigns.

In Documents there will be a folder called Neverwinternights2 delete it and your game will run fine again, and you keep any hakpaks you have.
you lose your saves though.
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Koumei
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PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2014 1:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Yeah, but if I'm deleting all my saves I may as well delete the whole game.

In other news, "The Gods Themselves" (Evil post-HotU trilogy for NWN1) is really good. The first one is short and to the point, and after that it gets more in-depth with some options for what to do, a reminder that fiends are all dickbags that will betray you and so on. And puzzles of course.
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AndreiChekov
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PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2014 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

THe idea behind my suggestion is that you delete after you have finished a campaign. Like complete main quest, transfer to mask of the betrayer, and then wipe everything before playing storm of zehir
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Koumei
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 1:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I ended up reinstalling, and basically making a mass of characters, and I figure I'll finish with all of them before moving all into MotB (not including any where I go "Ah, cbf") and doing it that way. And started a SoZ on the side.

Playing not just evil characters, but total dickbags, is so much fun. Releasing imps across the city, getting a drunk gangster to make a mockery of the trial, feeding NPC cohorts to One of Many, dealing with mind flayers in the blackmarket... it's hilarious.

I also played as one of those... it's like the normal option, but different, they have hair on the face and don't have boobs. It's funny how Neeshka suddenly becomes jealous if you ever notice another girl daring to exist in her presence.

Still sticking with the bare minimum mods: more hairstyles for girls, more Warlock stuff (invocations, feats, prestige classes), and the "LA +0 for all races" one. The one with the new races and classes fucks up the AI. No prestige classes for Clerics that don't follow Kelemvor and don't specialise in spears is kind of sad, apparently the game made space for Contemplatives to be added in an expansion, but it never happened. Sadface.
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Lago PARANOIA
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 5:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

So. What are your thoughts on NWN2 and the various expansions? I mean, Koumei has them scattered throughout the thread but I was wondering what everyone else thinks as well. Or Koumei can re-summarize now that she's beat NWN2.
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Your freedom to make rulings up on the fly is in direct conflict with my freedom to interact with an internally consistent narrative. Your freedom to run/play a game without needing to understand a complex rule system is in direct conflict with my freedom to play a character whose abilities and flaws function as I intended within that ruleset. Your freedom to add and change rules in the middle of the game is in direct conflict with my ability to understand that rules system before I decided whether or not to join your game.

In short, your entire post is dismissive of not merely my intelligence, but my agency. And I don't mean agency as a player within one of your games, I mean my agency as a person. You do not want me to be informed when I make the fundamental decisions of deciding whether to join your game or buying your rules system.
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Koumei
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 6:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

1. Lack of community-created material makes me sad.
2. Knockdown is kind of lame now, though it works well against casters (it's opposed attack + size roll now, and doesn't do damage on top of the knockdown)
3. Main game: pretty decent, and you can enjoy going through it multiple times due to pissing different people off and all that
4. Mask of the Betrayer is pretty good. Paragon Wolverines aside, it has some stuff that seems pretty epic-level.
5. But the timer on the Soul Eater gauge feels very video gamey and not very RPG-ish, and can be annoying
6. SoZ is awesome
7. Fucking Bioware, would it have killed them to make a game that wasn't a massive pile of bugs and errors?
8. There is no penalty from stealing from people. No alignment shift, and even if they notice it doesn't do anything. Go wild on the four NPCs that actually carry money and items.
9. Lord Nasher isn't just a massive penis to wipe all over you, he will listen to you and respect you and stuff, and decides "I'm going to take an army to hold the enemy up while you do important things".

Den people should collab on making a bunch of races and classes and crap in it. I might one day try dipping my toe in and seeing how to go about doing these things.
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Lago PARANOIA
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 8:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

What about your opinion on the plots? I haven't played SoZ or that other famous NWN2 expansion pack that has you operating as a super-awesome assassin.
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Josh Kablack wrote:
Your freedom to make rulings up on the fly is in direct conflict with my freedom to interact with an internally consistent narrative. Your freedom to run/play a game without needing to understand a complex rule system is in direct conflict with my freedom to play a character whose abilities and flaws function as I intended within that ruleset. Your freedom to add and change rules in the middle of the game is in direct conflict with my ability to understand that rules system before I decided whether or not to join your game.

In short, your entire post is dismissive of not merely my intelligence, but my agency. And I don't mean agency as a player within one of your games, I mean my agency as a person. You do not want me to be informed when I make the fundamental decisions of deciding whether to join your game or buying your rules system.
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Koumei
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 4:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I'm pretty happy with the plots. The base game + Mask work pretty well together, and I'll forgive the 4-5 hours of dancing about just to get into Blacklake.

SoZ is much more open-ended while still giving you some basic general directions. That's good. It gets that it's a video game so players want some amount of "I'm supposed to go and do X when I'm ready" (mainly so they can make sure to do X last), but it doesn't force you to do much. It even lets you retire and declare yourself the winner at basically any point, as though they're not interested in the Big Quest (TM) and just want to reach a certain level, get rich and retire to their planar Deathwarded towers of succubi.

Mystery of Westgate is... okay, the dialogue can be really bad sometimes, and they would have noticed that if they had voiced all of it rather than "the first few lines of some conversations here and there". But the plot itself is pretty good, and choosing specific branches does have a huge difference that makes it replayable. Also, if you play an Evil Monk, the game has items you'll like and you can get the "Gain the Vampire Template for zero LA" ability just at the end. If there were a nice Epic level thing you could play after that where the enemies weren't 90% Undead (and thus immune to level drain), that'd be awesome.
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Lago PARANOIA
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Koumei wrote:
9. Lord Nasher isn't just a massive penis to wipe all over you, he will listen to you and respect you and stuff, and decides "I'm going to take an army to hold the enemy up while you do important things".


I've always been inordinately fond of videogame authority figures who can be firm and assertive without being domineering or obstructive. Unfortunately, the list is pretty short. NWN2's Nasher, QFG's Rakeesh, KQ6's Saladin...
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Josh Kablack wrote:
Your freedom to make rulings up on the fly is in direct conflict with my freedom to interact with an internally consistent narrative. Your freedom to run/play a game without needing to understand a complex rule system is in direct conflict with my freedom to play a character whose abilities and flaws function as I intended within that ruleset. Your freedom to add and change rules in the middle of the game is in direct conflict with my ability to understand that rules system before I decided whether or not to join your game.

In short, your entire post is dismissive of not merely my intelligence, but my agency. And I don't mean agency as a player within one of your games, I mean my agency as a person. You do not want me to be informed when I make the fundamental decisions of deciding whether to join your game or buying your rules system.
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CapnTthePirateG
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 1:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Anyone tried the Enhanced Edition of Baldur's Gate II?

Right now I just started, I'm a necromancer leading a perty of Minsc/Korgan/Hexxat/Aerie/Viconia.

This is subject to change.
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Koumei
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 2:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I would, but I didn't really get into it when I played the un-enhanced all those years ago. Part of it was that even then the graphics looked really crappy - I like my character customisation, and I also like to be able to clearly make out what is what on the map.

Also, the whole "AD&D 2Ed" thing.

Does Enhanced fix any of these major issues?
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CapnTthePirateG
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2014 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

No.
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Ikeren
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2017 6:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Okay, sorry to rez an ancient thread (I had it bookmarked).

I'm craving some D&D game ish stuff.

I replayed Baldur's Gate 1, and then found I couldn't stand the combat engine enough to play Baldur's Gate 2. I went to Neverwinter Nights 1, hoping it'd be more up to date, but hated playing as a single character instead of a party.

So I saw you could do a party in Temple of Elemental Evil. So I started playing it and...holy shit, it's so amazingly good. Item crafting, the honesty of the combat system. I love it. 5 foot steps and AoO's. I'm about 1/2 through the big dungeon and it doesn't seem like it has much in the way of back to back replayability (and a fair amount of bugginess and broken material even despite the Co8 patch), but it's so good.

Are there any other games that run this combat engine? I don't even think they need a good story, I just want numerous interesting 3.5E combat puzzles. Or is there a modding/expanded content community for it? What about Return to Temple of Elemental Evil...or is that the printed modules name?
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angelfromanotherpin
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2017 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

The game uses a modified version of the Arcanum engine, so I guess technically Arcanum uses the same engine, but not really. There is a modding scene for it, here's a Keep on the Borderlands total conversion mod, for instance.

RTTTOEE was the 3e sequel module to the 1e original.
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radthemad4
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2017 1:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

You might want to check out Temple Plus if you haven't already. It's fully compatible with Circle of Eight.

Last edited by radthemad4 on Fri Jan 27, 2017 1:32 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Archmage Joda
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2017 9:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Speaking of Neverwinter Nights, a twofold question: which is better between 1 and 2 (without the mask of the betrayer expansion for the latter), and is druid as facerollingly easy in those games as it is in 3.5?
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Koumei
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2017 3:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

If you're allowing mods, then NWN1 wins hands-down because the PRC/CEP adds "everything that has ever been published for 3.X"* Also it has way more modules created so you can keep playing new games.

Otherwise, it really depends. NWN1 has a lot more stuff for you to do, there are a lot more optional side-quests (and "locked behind certain classes if you don't pass a skill check") so you'll get multiple plays with different content if you're not a Mage with high Persuade. And of the two, it's closer to the D&D you play at a table, though still not identical. Also, its various (many) bugs tend not to be game-breaking things that force you to reload. And the bit where all NPCs and creatures are targettable is useful not just for being a dick, but for sneak-attacking enemies instead of letting them get the first attack after a conversation, and also for forcing a fight if for some reason the game doesn't trigger it.

NWN2 feels a bit more structured in that you generally are always the right level for stuff, things happen in a pretty good order for your growth rate and for the story - the only real gripe is with all the work to get into the Blacklake district, but if you know what you're doing you can nail that chunk of the game in one sitting. It does a better job of you outgrowing the setting and being a force of power that everyone notices, and doesn't have as much in the way of weird glitches cropping up - however all it takes is one skipped trigger and you have to reload. Or use the console to fucking teleport yourself to the next map. I apologise for every time I said this was a Bioware game and not an Obsidian one, however. Also, this lets you control your entire party, and indeed you have an actual party and not "two people plus companions". I mentioned above that NWN1 lets anyone turn hostile which saves you if an enemy doesn't trigger properly, but the flip side is that you can stand there and rob people blind and they just don't care.

As for the Druid, in NWN1 it is definitely a good solid choice, but there are still parts of the game that will straight-up fuck you up because it's a puzzle monster or a high-level caster who gets to Timestop before the actual fight starts or whatever. 1 is more dangerous in general (especially at the low levels, obviously), and that's something you just have to accept and savescum. In 2, they're not as overwhelming but they're still a good choice. The only problem is that any time a conversation happens, everyone automatically un-polymorphs and turns visible, so you can't have Invisibility up and, more relevantly, you can't walk up to a "talk then boss fight" as a dire bear.

As an aside, I got NWN2 working for Linux, and playing as a complete evil [EDITED] is amazing. The ending you get for consuming the hunger itself is incredible.

*There might be some obscure thing that didn't make it. And the magazines don't count.
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Ikeren
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

@Angel, @RadTheMad4; thank you.
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