Review/Drinking Game: Warhams 40k 7Ed: Send Help

[Koumei]

To be fair that handful of other armies are loyalist marines, which is actually 'most armies.'

Huh? No, they get better (and more frequent) treatment than Sistaz (loyalist, not Marines), Imperial Guard (loyalist, not Marines), Dark Eldar (not even loyal to themselves, let alone the Emperor of humans, and also not Marines), Tyranids (non-Imperial, not Marines), and Orks (non-Imperial, not Marines).

They get a rougher deal than regular Space Marines (ie "the main army") on the whole, with various elements sometimes being better by accident, though from a model perspective, they still tend to get nicer-looking things that look better on a shelf, as opposed to "a new tank with a new missile launcher" or "bigger bulkier marines". And of course, a lot of the "Like Space Marines Except (colour), Therefore Special Rules" often shine for a brief moment then turn out kind of crap - whether because initial excitement dies down (Bangles) or because Codex changes cut the legs out (arguably Grey Knights).

They also don't get the love that Tau got, but let's be honest: Tau got that love once after a huge dearth of anything, and there is the real possibility that this was their "once in a lifetime" thing and they'll never be that good again.

Eldar might be amazing forever. Or they might fade back into that 4-5Ed thing where they had some good options but were left longing for former glories of an age long past. Which is remarkably appropriate.

Chaos is by no means one of the top armies if you're just bringing a legion of Chaos Marines, but the fact is they get stuff and attention is paid to them, and a lot of the current shining stars have had periods of sitting on the shelf and waiting their goddamn turn.

[maglag]

And it's still basically designed with both backwards and forwards compatibility, has actual uses (depending on how you want to roll - either mass summoning, taking advantage of lots of psykers, or having AP 3 everywhere for taking out what is still the most commonly encountered opponent outside of tournaments where people very specifically take whatever is strongest this week (Eldar)).

Koumei, there's this mechanic called "cover". It means that AP 3 is really weaksauce because any other army with common 3+save can and will dig in while laughing at thousand sons inferno bolts, in particular when they heavily outnumber them. It's one of the main reasons why Rubric marines have been crap for so long. Meanwhile when loyalists/eldar bring their plasma/grav, they back it up with cheap divination psykers to negate the opponent's cover. While Thousand sons have their cheapest divination user at 160 points.

-New Codex: Tyranids, with more than just "Take Flyrants and go ham on it"

Genestealer Cults have been out for more than a month in case you forgot it already. And you even previewed it.

-Anything that makes Orks viable, whether it's a new Codex or some bandaid units that can at least lift them up in the meantime

Orks already have a couple viable builds with their most recent splats. Yes, orks got splats too.

Hint: bring all the rokkits and kustom force fields. And Warp Vomit still is a better power than anything on the Tzenceth discipline.

Then they're just being whiny [EDITED] as usual and you should ignore them and possibly piss in their shoes. They still get better treatment and more frequent treatment than a handful of other armies.

To be fair that handful of other armies are loyalist marines, which is actually 'most armies.'

Indeed. And then Eldar and Necrons and Tau aren't spoiling for options either.

So Chaos gets to claim to be in better shape than
1-Dark Eldar.
2-Sisters of Battle.

Yay, 3rd best army counting from the bottom!

Now all-the-horrors seems like a pretty competitive army. But it also seems like the kind of thing that would be banned on most reasonable tournaments and will make you run out of both friends and money fast.

(More reasonable people expect the Lion, since the fluff portion of this release has the DA on hand, and all sorts of shenanigans going on in the depths of the Rock).

My bet's still on Lemon Russ.

[Koumei]

Koumei, there's this mechanic called "cover".

If only there were an army with AP 3 flamers. Oh right, Space Marines get that on 240 point Tanks and Chaos get that on awesome Flyers and Thousand Sons can now take that on their specific units that are AP 3 to begin with, thus having the perfect thing to deal with that. And their Terminators can move at normal speed and I 4 (against most predictions) with Power Swords. I remind you that Going to Ground doesn't help you against close combat, and even hiding in shrubs won't help if a single enemy model has Frag Grenades, like a character attached to the Terminators.

Genestealer Cults have been out for more than a month in case you forgot it already. And you even previewed it.

You mean the Cults that treat Tyranids as Allies of Convenience, right? Those ones? Yes, if you collect Nids you'll probably get some of these just because it resembles being thrown a bone, it's similar to having something new, but only in the sense that AdMech was a new release for Imperial forces. Except less so because at least AdMech are Battle Bros.

Yes, orks got splats too.

Since when?

So Chaos gets to claim to be in better shape than
1-Dark Eldar.
2-Sisters of Battle.

And Imperial Guard - unless you are playing in a very high point game that doesn't throw a ban on Super Heavies, and if you mention the banning of Horrors in tournaments, I get to mention that Guard players will not be allowed to bring Bane Blade Companies despite the Cadian Codex allowing that. (Also running out of money, seriously.)

And honestly you're giving the Orks too much credit, and rules-wise you're also giving too much credit to Harlequins and Tyranids. And as for "getting new toys", either admit that Tau and Necrons had their one big thing thrown to them and are again at the back of the line and this isn't situation normal, or just accept that people are going to laugh at you more than normal.

Or be literally every Chaos player ever, that's also an option.

[Voss]

My bet's still on Lemon Russ.

Not sure if that's an honest typo, or if the My Little Pony community has gotten to you. Leman's crossover fanfic pony name is Lemon Rush.

But honestly, if they wanted to throw the return of Russ into the story at a dramatically and narratively appropriate point... they just missed it.


it would have been a lot more satisfying than Santa Grimnar

pulling an exact recreation of Angron's digging himself free from burial on Armatura, complete with the aid of a Librarian gestalt (detailed in the HH novel Betrayer), and then

hacking at Magnus' knees with a mothering fucking Axe of Khorne* until he went away... for about five minutes, apparently.

Having Russ there would have even been more satisfying for Magnus as well, one more parallel in his design.

*which presumably the GK and Inquisition elements present are gonna ignore (or keep ignoring since he's had it quite a while), because Space Wolf plot armor and immunity to suspicion despite.. fucking everything.

[maglag]

My bet's still on Lemon Russ.

Not sure if that's an honest typo, or if the My Little Pony community has gotten to you. Leman's crossover fanfic pony name is Lemon Rush.

Not a MLP fan to start with, but it's not that hard of a nickname to come up with.

I actually did a character named Lemon Russ based on Leman Russ back when 4e came out. A re-fluffled cleric, plate was power armor, the holy symbol was a bolter (since half of 4e cleric powers are ranged attacks) along melee powers. The whole game was a parody actually, two other players were magical girls (one melee and other an actual wizard) having a crush on each other and and we fought stuff like shit golems and goblin commissars. Good times.

But honestly, if they wanted to throw the return of Russ into the story at a dramatically and narratively appropriate point... they just missed it.

it would have been a lot more satisfying than Santa Grimnar

pulling an exact recreation of Angron's digging himself free from burial on Armatura, complete with the aid of a Librarian gestalt (detailed in the HH novel Betrayer), and then

hacking at Magnus' knees with a mothering fucking Axe of Khorne* until he went away... for about five minutes, apparently.

Having Russ there would have even been more satisfying for Magnus as well, one more parallel in his design.

...
Man, how the mighty have fallen. Magnus can fly and has a crapload of ranged attacks. Couldn't he, you know, just hang in the sky dropping nukes?

It seems like all that daemon primarchs are good for nowadays is for the modern chapter masters to use them as punching bags in the fluff.

So no wonder that Abaddon remains the chaos god's favorite, because at least he fails less.

*which presumably the GK and Inquisition elements present are gonna ignore (or keep ignoring since he's had it quite a while), because Space Wolf plot armor and immunity to suspicion despite.. fucking everything.

Yeah, they literally have sorcerors and worship spirits and have more pagan talismans than a word bearer, but everything perfectly fine.

On the other hand the GK and Inquisition both love using daemonic weapons and sorcery themselves, and the emprah himself had zero problem with Fulgrim walking around with a talking daemonic sword. So yeah, the only real reason Magnus ever got on daddy's bad side was because he was a nerd, reading books instead of using them as ablative plating like his cooler brothers and stuff. Just like Lorgar also loved religious books and using them to settle things peacefully and that made the emprah rage extra hard, while space furries praying to the fang gods before going into another murder spree was just fine.

[Stahlseele]

Lemon Rust coming back? In 40K?
In the last german HH Novel (30K) Vulcan lives again.
And in the 35k Novels War of the Beast . . he still lives.

[Voss]

Lemon Rust coming back? In 40K?
In the last german HH Novel (30K) Vulcan lives again.
And in the 35k Novels War of the Beast . . he still lives.

It's Vulkan's extra special Primarch power (uh, yeah, apparently they have those now, though I'll be fucked if I know what most of them are- Batman and Ravenman can apparently shadowstep). Anyway, Vulkan is explicitly immortal (and I mean 'can't be killed permanently immortal,' not just 'long lived' like the rest of them), but then so are some random humans, so... whatever. He gets tortured to insanity at some point, and spends variable amounts of time in healing comas, but yeah.

I'm currently reading Unremembered Empire, where it gets revealed (again?). It starts as an interesting perspective on Guilliman setting up an Imperium Secundus when no one has a fucking clue whats going on due to the giant warpstorm, but devolves into Batman playing Keystone Cops with the Ultramarines, Dark Angels, assorted legion survivors, a couple human immortals and Vulkan. Who has 'died' three times so far... and I apparently skipped the book where Batman tortures and kills him for months.



Anyway, most of the loyalist primarchs are just missing. It used to be one of the many mysteries of the setting, but modern GW seems intent on spoiling all of those in disappointing detail.

[Stahlseele]

Yeah, i know about Vulcan being an Endless.
As i said, i have read the HH novels.
But still . . a Primarch still alive after the Heresy should have completely changed the canon history up to 40K <.<
Even if he somehow managed to get himself killed in 35k against the beast.

[Voss]

Yeah, i know about Vulcan being an Endless.
As i said, i have read the HH novels.
But still . . a Primarch still alive after the Heresy should have completely changed the canon history up to 40K <.<
Even if he somehow managed to get himself killed in 35k against the beast.

Not really. The Imperium is explicitly really bad at history, even when they aren't deliberately censoring it. That the Salamanders chapter thinks their boss has been missing for 10,000 years instead of the 5,000 years he's actually been missing... doesn't matter at all. Especially if he was in seclusion masterbating with his hammer or whatever.

(And the more I hear about the Beast series the less I want to read it. Sounds really fucking awful even by warhammer standards)

But there are canonically some major heresies that wrecked everything (again) in the intervening period, so the knowledge of one primarch among millions of worlds can easily be lost. The Age of Apostasy (Cardinal Bucharis vs 'Saint' Sebastian Thor) happened in M.36 and pretty much fucked everything until Thor fixed it.

The 40k timescale is stupidly vast and full of bullshit, as is the Imperium itself. No one knowing or caring about the effect of a single man is kinda the point:
"the universe is a big place and, whatever happens, you will not be missed"

I rather dread the current studio kicking over that fundamental principle (from the title page of the original book), for MOAR SUPAHEROES!

[maglag]

The 40k timescale is stupidly vast and full of bullshit, as is the Imperium itself. No one knowing or caring about the effect of a single man is kinda the point:
"the universe is a big place and, whatever happens, you will not be missed"

Ciaphas Cain is missed. Could duel spech merines in melee and walk away on his own feet, snipe down necrons with a laspistol, and survived to meet basically every other major faction on the galaxy.

The Imperium still has him on the payroll despite being buried not because of a mistake but because of an unique ruling due to all the times Cain was declared dead yet kept popping back up.

[Stahlseele]

Both ingame and outgame nobody is sure wether or not Caiphas Cain is blessed by the Big E or cursed by some other power.

@being missed:
There is a whole damn holiday dedicated to Sanguinius(Space Jesus) . . if that is not being missed, i don't know what counts . .
Maybe the millions of people visiting the shrine where Papa Smurf is in his Glasscoffin.

As for War of the Beast . . yeah, if you do not mind even more massive spoilers, read the lexicanum entry . . it basically invalidates all the known 40k canon . . which, if you go with the unreliable narrator trope because of lostech and lost history, may actually be not as bad as it sounds . .

[maglag]

Whetever Ciaphas Cain got his powers from, he was still important enough to get his own unique ruling in the administration, which is as important as it gets.

Super shrines are a dime a dozen in the imperium. Millions of visitors is small stakes when you take in account the population of trillions.

Also Sanguinus has an holyday? Source please? And how would you even enforce that accross the Imperium when each planet will have different yearly cycles? Also what about the secrecy behind the Horus Heresy? How do you celebrate Sanginus sacrifice when most of the population isn't supposed to know about how the emprah used him as meat shied #10897761? Either way, I doubt it's the only holyday the Imperium has. And it would be less of "being missed", and more of "this dude sacrificed himself for the emprah! You should all follow his example!", which, again, there's plenty of other imperial saints that can claim the same thing.

[Stahlseele]

Of all the Primarchs, Sanguinius is commonly held in the highest honour. Because he is generally believed to have sacrificed himself to allow Horus, the "Great Betrayer", to be defeated, the Primarch's name is cherished by the common citizens of the Imperium. Temples devoted to Sanguinius rise aside those of the Emperor. Sanguinius is commemorated on a sacred day of celebration called the Sanguinala, when adepts across the galaxy wear on their breast the red badge of Sanguinius

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Sanguinius
a bit more our speed:

In the 41st millennium, Sanguinius is the Primarch most beloved by the Imperium for his heroic sacrifice (despite what he who shall not be named would say about our Spiritual Liege), and is a hero of the Imperial Cult. Across the Imperium a celebration called the Sanguinala is held in his honor, where adepts wear the iconography of the Blood Angels. A festival dedicated to Leman Russ would have been a better party, but would also have involved more property damage and alcohol-related deaths.

https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Sanguinius

[maglag]

Thanks, but amusingly enough, the wiki's source is [Needs Citation].

In particular when, again, the whole Horus Heresy thingy is supposed to be kept under wraps.

[Stahlseele]

But then, this is 40K we are talking about and sense is not often made . .
Also, i forgot, the Lion sleeps tonight in the rock as well.

[maglag]

Still no actual GW source. Searching in the net only points out to parody youtube videos and a discussion about source where again nobody manages to point it out, so I'll write it off as fanfiction that somehow sneaked into the wiki.

In other news, the 1ksons supplement is now officially a nerf if you want to actually play 1ksons instead of horrors, because I was pointed out that since the extra powers are basically crap (including gaze of Magnus because only Magnus can actually cast it) the chances of rolling a good one (Doombolt), go down if you're using the book. Scarab termies are plain worse than combie chaos termies, rubrics are still the worst troop in the game, exalted sorcerers are serious contenders for most inneficient pyskers in the game. It's codex: multi-colored horrors and 40k beastmen.

[OgreBattle]

The 2010's fluff doesn't seem to get as homoerotic as the 90's and 80's stuff, or have I just not read enough of it.

Scarab termies are plain worse than combie chaos termies, rubrics are still the worst troop in the game, exalted sorcerers are serious contenders for most inneficient pyskers in the game. It's codex: multi-colored horrors and 40k beastme

This sounds like the perfect thing to follow up with updated Grey Knights with new awesome sorcery and sorcerous weaponry.

[Voss]

The 2010's fluff doesn't seem to get as homoerotic as the 90's and 80's stuff, or have I just not read enough of it.

Eh... only in the sense that there are occasionally female characters wandering around. Warhammer is largely pretty lacking in eroticism (or sexuality) of any stripe. The 40k poster boys of the god of sex are genetic eunuchs who get off on loud noises more than anything else. At best there are vague description of fairly generic sounding orgies that happen offscreen in the mist or drug laced fogs.

On the fantasy side, khorne and slaanesh are both described as getting off on combat, and the difference is largely frenzy vs. immunity to psychology. [Which sort of suggests the depraved disciples of sexy chaos are absurdly disciplined for some reason. Or blasted out of their minds, but in game terms there isn't any difference. ]

[Koumei]

They used to be a bit more on the nose about Space Marines being very... Spartan. Not just the bit where the Dark Angels are all references to gay poets and "we're not saying their deep secret is that they are gay, but we're not saying it's not". There were Rainbow Warriors, a chapter that was clad in rainbow colours with lots of feathers - some claim it was more of a culturally insensitive Native American thing, but I somehow doubt it - there's no way they'd excise a chapter just for being kind of racist.

But yes, even in the old days it was a fairly sexless setting.

[maglag]

That reminds me of the theory that Eldar are going extinct because they're simply not having any sex. Or at least not enough sex between different genders.

Insert jokes about 90% of the eldar army still being super colourful with phallic hats and tight bodysuits.

On the fantasy side, khorne and slaanesh are both described as getting off on combat, and the difference is largely frenzy vs. immunity to psychology.

Meh, all fantasy plated chaos warriors are described as throwing away every pleasure of life for the glory of combat, regardless of mark (or lack of it).

[Which sort of suggests the depraved disciples of sexy chaos are absurdly disciplined for some reason. Or blasted out of their minds, but in game terms there isn't any difference. ]

The Champion named character of Slaanesh is Sigvald, who's an inbred narcissitic of such degree that he actually has his bodyguards carry mirror shields just so he can stop in the middle of battle to admire his own pretty face. Game-wise he gives himself and his unit the Stupidity rule.

[maglag]

So fresh rumors for Traitor's Hate.

Did this fast as fans cracking the whip behind me so pardon auto spell errors, if any abbreviations don’t make sense ad just ask if you have any questions. Thanks, fans for your support and patience!

Codex Supplement: Traitor Legions $35 USD pre-order Dec. 3, available Dec. 10

Disclaimer: I’m not a competitive beat-face player but love themed armies and fluff and when that marries into a playable force I can use on the tabletop I’m happy. I’m also only recently become a CSM player last week with WoM and Thousand Sons release (army already being built and getting some paint). However, I am a Horus Heresy nut and if any of you have listened to this podcast before (Combat Phase podcast) you’ll know how I love me some heresy. If you are looking for new rules for Heresy models from FW or plastic GW HH products then I’m afraid to tell you that is not here. As I’ve said before, no new models accompany this or the Codex: Imperial Agents books this week or next, however, in 2017, so few weeks away…we should have quite a good first quarter (at the very least). That said, as a Heresy player I’m impressed with most of the flavoring given to these legions. Some like Alpha Legion or Death Guard (my 30K army) or even World Eaters are pretty sweet enemy opinion. But you decide for yourself.
The episode of Combat Phase (www.combatphase.com) with this review is coming soon but in the meantime for all who are chomping at the bit, let’s begin...

Book contents
Most of the book is data sheets and even more is creating the 9 legions to give you themey armies, special rules, artifacts, warlord traits, objective markers, expanded Nurgle and Slaanesh lore for DG & EC respectively.This means, like Tzeencth, now 6 + 1 primaries power. As with Wrath of Magnus, you can make any CSM army into a specific legion given certain modifications, then the army gains additional special rules and when an army is composed of at lest 1 core and 1 auxiliary formation you get a formation with extra benefits. If you warlord is from this legion detachment it becomes your primary detachment and all in the primary detachment gain the benefits. Just with recent supplements an example is given when building a legion force where a gamer has a collection of models and the example walks through how he/she would separate models into a primary detachment with the bulk and a HQ & 2+ troops at least to for a CAD which gains objective secured.

The book opens with some fluff for the Long War and a page with killer artwork for each of the 9 legions presented here. We see the usual inclusion of high quality art and photography of models engaged in combat we’re used to from GW. This is a supplement to codex Chaos Space Marines so any new datasheets here replace what is in CSM. New wargear is on pages 135-136. The new rules vehicle squadrons from Traitor’s Hate are included where Chaos vindicators and predators can be taken as a squadron. I think especially the vindicator one is best, and would be quite fluffy in an Iron Warriors list.

Very fluff choices, all around in my opinion. Legions hating their old Heresy enemies, how they score, relics and traits but especially primary detachment rules.

Vindicators: 120 base/for 2nd & 3rd models (minimum cost: 360 pts) - gains Linebreaker Bombardment: Instead of firing all 3, select 1 vindicator to fire the demolisher cannon which now becomes 24”, S10, AP2, Ordinance but uses the 10” Apocalyptic Blast template and Ignores cover

Predators: 75 base/ for 2nd & 3rd (minimum cost 225) if all 3 predators are on field they gain monster hunter and tank hunter.

General layout formations reflect the fighting style of each legion, taking into account how steeped in Chaos they may be. So without further ado

Legions- every legion has 6 exclusive warlord traits, artifacts, tactical objectives, rules for CSM in their legion army, and if its detachment is the primary detachment allows them to re-roll legion warlord trait.
For formations I’m not copy/pasting all so see the first occurrence of the general formations for details)

1. Black legion
CSM become black if: Abaddon is the only unique; any unit that can take VotLW do so at no cost; Psykers (games goes for Demon psykers)from Nurgle, Slaanesh, or Tzeentch can choose to generate all their spells from these lords respectively
Gains: Endless hatred (units w/VotLW have Hatred; but also can re-roll failed to-hits every round of close combat vs. unit which contains armies of imperium in it); First among traitors (Chaos Termies & Chosen are troops)
Designer’s note: The Black Crusader warlord trait provides preferred enemy space marine which includes everything from factions: Space Marines, Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Deathwatch, Grey Knights, Legion of the Damned, SWolves)
Warlord: Warlord & friendly w/in 12”have pref enemy SM (see designer’s note above); Warlord can refill Chaos Boon/Gift of Mutation but accept result; gets shooting template S4, AP5, assault 1, soul blaze, 1 use only (LAME!); gets It Will Not Die!; melee weapons gains instant death on to-wound roll of 6; Warlord & friendly w/in 12” stubborn
Artefacts: -1T but re-roll invuln saves of 1
Black Legion Speartip - Heralds of the Black Crusade (all non-vehicles gain fear and crusader); Speatrip strike(Deep Strike can try to come in 1st turn on 3+, if Warlord has DS his unit auto-pass turn 1 DS reserve)
1+ Core Black Legion warband (1 lord, -1 sorcerer, 2-6 SM and/or chosen, 1-3 raptor/warp t, 1-3 havocs/helbrutes)- roll twice on boon& choose 1 or both results); Hounds of Abaddon (1 Lord, 1-3 Kh berry, 1-3 CSM, 1-3 raptors, warp t, or bikes combo) - once/game can run & charge same round; charge roll of 8+ before mods +1 str during assault phase
1+ Aux Lost & Damned, Helforged wrack, Deamon Engine, Heldrake Terror, Cult of destruction, Fist of the Gods, (Raptor Talon, Terminator annihliation Force, Spawn (1-3 spawn)
0-5 Command Bringers of Despair (Abby + termies- termies get WS5, charge roll 8 = +1 str assault ), Cyclopian Cabal (3-5 sorc- each pay phase can cast shroud of deceit, gets bonus dice per sorc w/in 12”. [pick non vehicle enemy w/in 30’ not locked in combat, make that unit shoot as if it were yours ), Chosen of Abaddon (1-4 lords/sorc, unit of chosen or terms for each lord/sorc——joined units are fearless, each Lord or sort gets free boon role before deployment refill spans & apotheosis ), Lord of the Legion (1 of following: Abaddon, Chas Lord, Sorcerer, dark apostle or demon prince)
tactical objectives:
1VP for destroying a unit in turn; 1 VP if enemy failed morale/pin/fear; D3Vp if kill IndChar; D6 & 1VP if you get that obj [common Chaos one]; 1VP if kill unit/D3 if killed by VotLW; 1Vp if manifested power, D3 if conjuration, D3+3 if summoned a Greater demon

2 - Alpha legion (happy with this fluff/rules!)
Must: if no unique, no marks, if so get VotLW free, sorcerer can choose all powers from it’s God’s discipline
gains: Forward Operatives: Chosen become troops; Chosen, CSM, cultists gain infiltrate; Many Heads of the Hydra:if warlord slain pick a new friendly character from AL detachment or formation. He generates warlord trait immediately. Can do this as long as you can. Opponent won’t get Slay the Warlord if they haven’t killed last remaining warlord from this
WT: can gain infiltrate; once per game friendly AL character w/same “type” as you and can swap their positions; from turn 2 pick a reserve unit to come on auto for each turn; stealth warlord; cultists w/in 12” get furious charge & FnP 6+
relics: start of your move move 3D6 immediately, can take you from combat & enemy cannot consolidate; great guns & weapons; armor gives 2+ save w/2+ invuln vs. flamer weapons; bolter gets blast, ignore cover, poison 2+; give friendly cultists w/in 12” zealot.
army: Hidden deployment (all non-vehical) shrouded 1st turn; cult uprising (cultist units destroyed on 4+ back into ongoing reserves)
Core: Chaos warband
command: Lord of Legion
aux: 8 formations (see Black Legion)
tact obj: capture enemy/unclaimed building; your cultists get destroyed gain VP, destroy a DS,H&Run, Outflank or scout unit; your infiltrators kill a unit; get into enemy deploy zone; kill character (more for more characters)

3 - Iron Warriors
must: no unique, no marks take VotLW, Psykers from gods (see above)
gain: Blood feud: VotLW re-roll failed to hit every combat round vs. Imp Fists, but IF get Hatred YOU; iron w/in, iron w/out: VotLW gain 6+ FnP, Patrons of technovirus: Obliterators and Mutilators are troops; siege masters: units re-roll armor pen vs buildings it didn’t glance or pen. +1 damage big roll result; IW havens, obits, mutilators get tank hunter
WT: FnP 4+; Fearless; give your terrain piece +1 cover; Friendly Oblits w/in 12” can fire twice in consecutive shooting phases; WL + unit have split fire & counterattack while in cover; friendly vehicles get It WND w/in 6” WL
relics: warp smith can possess a vehicle; warp smith extraA for challenge; axe of forge master; armor 2+ + gains IWND; at enemy shooting phase enemy vehicles w/in 2D6’ of bearer suffer automatic haywire hit, no cover allowed; siege breaker mace S+2 Ap 4, concussive, masterccraft, siege breaker - signal S10, AP 1 attack melee
army: master annihilation: barrage and word weapons can choose to re-roll scatter die; intractable brotherhood: all non-veh are stubborn; on or in fortification gain fearless instead
cor: chasse warband
command: Lords of legion
aux: Stronghold (1-3 fortifications + others
tact obj: VP if kill unit even partially w/in 18” your table edge; VP if kill unit that was controlling an obj; VP if your oblits/mutil destroyed a unit; roll die and get that obj; Vp if enemy forts/buildings lost HP (more if more);destroy enemy vehicle
(more is more)

4 Night Lords -again, for me, fluffy as ****!
must: same as above
gains: In midnight clad: VotLW gain fear, night vision. stealth; Skyborne horror: raptors are troops; Terror tactics: enemy locked in combat w/you must -2 leadership for Fear
WT: H7Run; re-eroll to-wound 1 in assault; Hatred; re-roll cover saves; WL&unit get HoWrath; Rampage
relics: melee weapons gain shred; Ap3 rending/shredding claws; Curzes Orb (ha!) re-roll 1 on run, hit & wound; 2+ armor (cover improves by 1); enemy w/in 6” -1 Ldsh & -1 from reserve rolls
army: Strike Hard/Fast: re-roll failed charge; Nocturnal Warfare: You assure Night Fight if want…during that turn all your non-vehicles cover improved by 1
core: Chaos warband OR Raptor Talon
command: Lord of Legion
Aux: the 8
tac obj: kill a character, make successful charge, your DS reserves kill a unit, destroy enemy in assault (D3 for 3); D3 if kill at least 2 units controlling obj; enemy fails pin, fear or moral (improves)

5 Word Bearers - tactical objectives are higher reward for them, I think.
must: no unique, units w/mark already can't play, though those w/option to upgrade mark may do so, VotLW; same w/psykers & demon Psyk = their gods
gain: unholy pact: possessed are troops; also you harness on 3+ to manifest conjuration from deamon(malefic); Blood Feud: VotLW re-roll hits vs. Ultramines each round but ULTYs hate you; Profane Zeal: WB units w/in 6” of Dark Apostles gain zealots
WT: Zealot or allow zealots to refill to-hit in cc; psyker 1; 1 unit w/in12” gets counterattack, fearless, furious charge, relentless; Adam Will & Fearless; You or friendly w/in12” can add/subtract 1 from the 2nd die in Boon Table; gain immediate boon
relics: can give you 4+ invull & adam will; most relics affect zealotry, fearless, can get magic. Ask for more detail
army: Dark crusader: non-vehicles get Crusader; 8-fold path: each turn pick character to roll on boon table (only once per character but they still earn boons normally)
Core: chaos warband, L&Damned
command: Lord of Legion
aux: The 8
obj: your zealots make a charge; your demon kills a unit in assault; kill enemy character; D3VP for successful conjuration; D3 VP if you control obj enemy did; 1VP if you roll on boon table (improves)

6 World Eaters (Blood for the Blood GOD!!!)
must: only Kharn; no psyker scum; only mk Khorne; VotLW, Demons must be of Khorne
gain: Berzerker Horde: Khorne Berz are troops; Blessing Khorne: VotLW have adam will; Butcher’s Nails: VoLW have fearless & furious charge
WT: Rampager; each boon table roll can instead boost attack stat by 1; at end of enemy charge subphase your unit can charge; re-roll hit/wound in challenge; locked in combat gain FnP & Eternal Warrior (yeah baby!); you $ friendly Mk Khorne w/in 8” charge 3D6 & pick highest
relics: can move 3” more; GOREFATHER [S+2, AP2, Armorbane,murderous strike(to-wound 6 = instant death, 2-handed, unwieldy]; pistol 12” S7,AP2,soulblaze; better deny witch; crazy S+1,AP2 axe does 2D6 attacks but each roll of 1 is a wound to you no armor saves; more killy axes
army: Blood Mad! after deploy/inflitrate but before 1st player starts turn all non-vehicle units can make immediate 2D6move(roll separate); ALSO non-veh & walkers can always re-roll failed charges
coe: haps warband, maelstrom of gore
command: Lord of legion
aux: 8
obj: deny witch; kill enemy controlling an obj; 3+ your units made charge; kill enemy in challenge (improves); destroy unit (improves); destroy in assault

7Thousand Sons - EXACTLY THE SAME AS WRATH OF MAGNUS SO SEE THERE

8 Death Guard (yeah, baby!!) Count the Seven!
must: Typhus only unique; only Nurgle marks; VotLW; DP need Mk Nurgle; psykers can take all from Nurgle
gain: Gift of Nurgle: VotLW gain fearless & FnP but -1 initiative (doesn’t affect Typhus or Plague marines); Inexorable Advance: VotLW get relentless; Lords of Plague Host: Plague Marines are troops
WT: FnP;IWNDie; +1 W; Eternal warrior; improved Poison by 1; units w/in 7” get contagion
relics: poison 2+ weapon; poison 2+ lg blast gun; poison 2+ staff; give units fear; give a dude fear, FnP & D3 cultists come back to life; AP3 poison 4+ deamon weapon
army: Disgustingly Resilient: re-roll FnP rolls of 1; Cloud of Flies: ranged hits more than 18” away give you stealth rule for resolving attack
core: Chaos wdrbamd; Plague Colony (Typhus + 3-7 plague marines—gain fear & enemy units w/in7” reduce I & WS by 1 in fight phase, if 7 plague marines add -1 Toughness to that)
command: Lord of Legion
aux: Lost and the Damned + 8
obj: Vp if 3+ your units on enemy table half; make 7 FnP rolls; kill unit w/weapon or psychic power using poisoned; name a IC and VP if he lives; D3Vp if you control EXACTLY 3 obj; kill 7 models (improves)
Access to full discipline of Nurgle 6 + primaris

9 Emperor’s Children
must: only Luciius unique; need mk Slaanesh; only mk Slaamesh; VotLW; psykers & demons can take full from Slaanesh expanded discipline
gain: fueled by sensation: VotLW gain Fearless & FnP6+ (units w/icon of excess make that FnP4+), VotLW if slain n fight sub phase before it swings gets 1 immediate attack; Matsers Kakophoni: Noise Marines are troops
WT: gain Warrior; +2 Init; all 1 to FnP of WL & his unit; Gain Fear & melee opponents take fear on 3D6; +1 attack each team you lose a wound (returns if healed); can auto-pass look out sir!
relics: make D3 rolls on combat drugs; gun 12” S8,AP2, assault D6, mental trauma (before attack target takes ldsh test and f failed you re-roll these to-wound);soul snare weapons (to wound 6 is AP2/instant death; you have fear, enemies w/in6” -1 lash; bolt weapons gain blast, ignores cover and pinning; AP3 catatonic trance - target must pass ldsh test/wound or die
army: combat drugs! roll after deployment for all your non-vehicles
1- +1 WS
2- +1 BS
3- +1 Init
4- +1 S
5 - +1 T
6- +1 A
core: chaos warband, Kakophani (Lucius or Ch Lord, 3-6 noise marines—get split fire & all sonic weapons gain shred. If take 6 noise marines they also get +1 St guns)
command: lord of legion
aux: lost & damned + 8
obj: destroy enemy w/noise weapons; kill enemy in challenge; kill a unit falling back; Vp per unit fails morale, fear, pinning (max 3); your enemy picks obj marker and D3Vo when you take it; D3 VP if your enemy controls no objectives (improves)


We get the 4 psy lores from before, and expanded Nurgle and Slaanesh disciplines plus primaris.
It’s a nice supplement and I think die-hard players of these legions will love it and do much better in game but also, more importantly, enjoy their games more. Yes, formations that are generic are in Traitor’s Hate, legion specific ones are in here, however, as are expanded Nurgle and Slaanesh lores. Thousand Sons are same as WoM. I love heresy and fluff so I give this a
4.7 (I like Nurgle)/5

Those sound... Plausible? And some of them actually good? Maybe it's just 1k sons that GW loves to kick around?

Alpha legion appears both fun and playable, in particular when your opponent has to kill every last character of your army to gain Slay the Warlord and you get to be generating new warlord traits all the way. It was not that Chaos Lord that was leading the heresy, it was me, cultist sergeant #2!. And infiltrate on CSM is pretty sweet.

Iron Warriors can spam obliterators on troop slots that then get Tank Hunters and 6+FNP, yes please.

World Eaters's Veterans of the Long Wang to gain Fearless, Furious Charge and Deny the Witch and at start of game free 2d6 move and free re-roll charge for your non-vehicle dudes YES PRAISE BE TO KHORNE! You technically can't take psykers but nobody cares because ally rules allows you to get around that. SUCK IT KHORNE DAEMONKIN!

Death Guard Veterans of the Long Warg to gain FnP, Fearless, re-roll of 1s on FnP and Stealth against attacks further than 18 away and Relentless! Wow, 1ksons can't catch a break, can they?

Emprah's Kids Veterans of the Long Bar gain FnP (6+, upgrades to 4+ with Icon), Fearless and DRUGS!

Night Lords and Word Bearers kinda meh since Raptors and Possessed still pretty bad.

Gotta love how GW just keeps throwing more goodies at VotLW, it's as if they've started to understand how much it sucked compared to ATSKNF+chapter tactics.

Also marked sorcerors can technically roll all their powers from their god's discipline, but why would you ever do that? What is GW thinking? "Players don't like rolling half their powers in the god's table. Hmmm, clearly what they want is to roll all the powers in their god's table!" Slaanesh and Nurgle technically getting new ones to theirs, but even if they were actually good unlike Tzenceth's news, you would still risk rolling the bad old ones. At least you're not forced to take any marks with the godless traitor legions.

[Stahlseele]

Just making sure with all this talk about the sexless universe of 40k . . you are not forgetting about the good old Daemonettes of Slaanesh right? O.o

[Voss]

Just making sure with all this talk about the sexless universe of 40k . . you are not forgetting about the good old Daemonettes of Slaanesh right? O.o

I'm not. They're repeatedly described as hideous but alluring in various books, to the point that it comes across that they're just psychically forcing people to find them appealing so they can kill them easily.

And to be fair, the original concept had them rather bug eyed, and the keeper of secrets strait up had a cow head. One bare tit (or lots of bare tits on the other daemons) doesn't equate to 'sex.'

Even more than most chaos stuff, the central focus of daemonettes is 'be a giant pile of melee attacks.' They act as seductresses almost never.

[Maxus]

Just making sure with all this talk about the sexless universe of 40k . . you are not forgetting about the good old Daemonettes of Slaanesh right? O.o

I'm not. They're repeatedly described as hideous but alluring in various books, to the point that it comes across that they're just psychically forcing people to find them appealing so they can kill them easily.

And to be fair, the original concept had them rather bug eyed, and the keeper of secrets strait up had a cow head. One bare tit (or lots of bare tits on the other daemons) doesn't equate to 'sex.'

Even more than most chaos stuff, the central focus of daemonettes is 'be a giant pile of melee attacks.' They act as seductresses almost never.

There was Ciaphas Cain, if that counts for anything. He sleep with an Inquisitor who he maintains a long-term...association...with. He also sleeps with incidental women over the course of his career. He makes mention of "joygirls" and likely has to deal with fraternization among the ranks of his co-ed regiment; it's implied he does once they stop trying to kill each other.

[Username17]

Sex certainly happens in the 40k universe, there's however many hundreds of billions of people and somebody has to be doing some fucking. But Games Workshop eschews discussing sex even more than Wizards of the Coast does. Authors really have to sneak references in if they want to mention sex at all. Even at its height, there was never as much boobage as in a Heavy Metal magazine, and they've done everything they can to hide even that away.

-Username17