The Gaming Den Forum Index The Gaming Den
Welcome to the Gaming Den.
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Google
 Search WWW   Search tgdmb.com 
Starting campaign 3.5/PF Core only w Houserules/Post-Wish Ec

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The Gaming Den Forum Index -> It's My Own Invention...
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
DreamEmulator
NPC


Joined: 13 Oct 2016
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2016 6:17 am    Post subject: Starting campaign 3.5/PF Core only w Houserules/Post-Wish Ec Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Hello, I am currently working on a campaign, the setting of which is sort of like Earthdawn combined with Dying Earth with a some V:tM and Paranoia themes worked in. I am looking for feedback on a set of untested houserules which I believe will drastically change the game into a more interesting version. We are basically only using the core rulebooks, though.

The characters start at 2nd level and will be expected to interact with the wish economy (which takes place extradimensionally) eventually. I am not using RoW or most other Tome rules because these people aren't interested. Anyways, these are the houserules we have agreed upon or at least discussed so far:

Mechanical Changes
- At first level, you have 70 points to divide between your 5 ability scores (Str, Dex, Int, Wis, Cha) on a point-by-point basis.
- You gain a +2 inherent bonus on two ability scores (instead of +1 to one score) every 4 levels.
- Con is folded into Str. For monsters: use book stats (mooks) or highest of two (npcs). Undead and Constructs still don't need to make Fort saves. Creatures without strength use Cha. Creatures without either are objects.
- No mod to HP, except for Barbarians (+Str mod/level while raging). Once you hit zero, you can take damage equal to your Str before you take a -2 penalty on all rolls. Take that much again and you are disabled and dying.
- Add Str + Dex mod (rounded to nearest 5) to speed (land, swim, climb, wing-based flight). Not for mooks.
- Caster level is equal to HD, period.
- Additional attacks from BAB are only at -5. For example a 16th level Barbarian has BAB 16/11/11/11

Feat Changes
- Bonus combat feats equal to BAB. Must meet prereqs
- Bonus metamagic/Item creation feats equal to highest spell level. Must meet prereqs
- Master craftsman, power attack, combat expertise, vital strike (et al), lunge, two-weapon fighting (et al), and combat reflexes are automatic. Everyone has these feats as long as they also have the prerequisites, except PA and CE have no prereqs.
- Weapon finesse allows you to use Dex to hit with any attack. Rogues automatically have this feat.

Class Changes
- Fighter replaces Warrior
- Bard relpaces Aristocrat.
- Barbarians may rage an unlimited amount per day, but are still fatigued afterwards one round for each round that they were raging.
- Any class with full spellcasting uses Cha for spell DCs
- Clerics and Druids have Poor BAB
- Rogues have full BAB
- Paladins may be any good alignment
- Rangers Bard-type casting, but from the druid list. They also have any ranger-specific spells. All their casting stuff is still Wis-based
- Ranger Animal companions use full level.
- Paladin Mounts can be any good-aligned Magical Beast or Dragon that has a CR = the Paladin's CR -2.
- Smite Evil is no longer an expendable resource. Just add the bonuses to all attacks to any evil creatures all the time.
- Monks have full BAB, their flurry of blows has no attack penalty and can be used with any weapon with which they are proficient.
- Monks are also proficient with all simple and martial weapons, and light armor.
- Monks, Rogues, Barbarians and any other class which formerly had no spellcasting, now has spells per day as a paladin of their level. They may choose a spell list to cast from which determines whether the spells are arcane or divine. Bonus spells and DCs are Wis-based
- Sorcerers have good reflex, medium BAB progression and higher hit die(d8).
- Wizards no longer have restricted schools. Universalist
- No multiclassing restrictions. In fact, you always get your level appropriate scaling abilities. Especially with prestige classes.

Item Rule Changes
- Attacks with light weapons may use Dex to hit.
- ACP only applies to stealth and swim if proficient. Max dex is increased by 1 every 4 BAB.
- Magic weapons and armor have special abilities of equal value to their enhancement bonus. Special abilities without their price listed as a bonus still have their cost added to the total item cost. Same goes for cloaks, amulets, rings, virtually any item with a flat bonus. For example, a cloak of resistance +3 could also have the effects of wings of flying for additional gp, but a wings of flying could not also have the effects of a cloak of etherealness.

Skill Changes
- Pathfinder skill list
- At first level, all characters have skill points equal to 2+class skill points+Int mod at 1st level. Every level gained thereafter grants 1 skill point, but gaining a level of rogue grants an additional point.
0 points (untrained) in skill: Level/2 + mod, non-prof penalties
1 point (trained) in skill: Level/2 + 3 + mod, use trained abilities
2 points (expert) in skill: Level + 3 + mod
3 points (master) in skill: Can take 10 any time.

This is all we were able to come up with off the top of our heads. I'll probably be updating this as we think of more things and as more things come up. I'll upload characters as they are made.
_________________
- Demon


Last edited by DreamEmulator on Thu Oct 13, 2016 11:03 am; edited 4 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
OgreBattle
Prince


Joined: 03 Sep 2011
Posts: 4767

PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2016 9:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Have you considered the PF Unchained 12 skill shortened list? Or skill proficiency instead of points?

You seem to have left the wizard and sorcerer as is, perhaps you can consider giving the sorcerer BAB 2/3 to make them more distinct from wizard.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Mask_De_H
Duke


Joined: 18 Jun 2009
Posts: 1714

PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2016 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Three things immediately jump out at me.

One: why do the Bard dirt by making it an NPC class? Did it fuck your SO?
Two: why is the Ranger the only half caster that gets Bard casting, especially if all the other martials get Pally casting? You know the Hunter is a thing, right?
Three: why are Wizards locked out of their only non-spell class features until Discoveries in your system? Not only are specializations important differentiation marks of the Wizard class, they potentially make them more manageable in abilities. I would go the other way and force Wizards to specialize 3.X style, so no double slotting without Opposition Research.

Also, what's the point of not adding Body (Str+Con) to HP, but adding Str+Dex to speed? Also, your Monk is the Unchained Monk with better weapon profs. Also also, there is no reason for martials to not go Cleric/Druid/Inquisitor as their list, given the DC system. Speaking of which, splitting DC and knowledge stats for full casters (except the Sorc/Oracle) doesn't "balance" casters. Caster SAD is a myth; full casters are better due to them having better abilities, not a more focused Stat spread.
_________________
Click here to see the hidden message (It might contain spoilers)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
DreamEmulator
NPC


Joined: 13 Oct 2016
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2016 4:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Mask_De_H wrote:

One: why do the Bard dirt by making it an NPC class? Did it fuck your SO?


That is kind of the bard's MO, I think. But no, it's mostly because our group likes bards, but no one wants to play one and I decided it was more efficient to leave the class as is. I'm doing a similar thing to other classes that no one is going to play (fighter, sorcerer), but it's mostly just labelling them as "default class for NPC mooks/hirelings".
I would probably do the same with barbarians and rogues but one guy was interested in playing a rogue/barbarian. I think I'll still end up having to give the character a bunch of templates to survive, but at least he'll be able to fly and teleport on his own.

Mask_De_H wrote:

Two: why is the Ranger the only half caster that gets Bard casting, especially if all the other martials get Pally casting? You know the Hunter is a thing, right?


The Ranger has better spellcasting because they don't get much else in comparison to other classes. For example, Paladins now have constant Smite Evil, immunity auras and dragon mounts (that can cast spells). Rangers without the extra spellcasting have a couple bonus feats, circumstancial combat bonuses and animal friends. And I actually forgot about hybrid classes. None of us have played in a while and I'm the only one that was still keeping track at all.

Mask_De_H wrote:

Three: why are Wizards locked out of their only non-spell class features until Discoveries in your system? Not only are specializations important differentiation marks of the Wizard class, they potentially make them more manageable in abilities. I would go the other way and force Wizards to specialize 3.X style, so no double slotting without Opposition Research.


That wasn't exactly what I meant, but I agree with your point. Wizards can still specialize, and it's actually even more encouraged because you don't have to select any opposition schools. I wouldn't force specialization, but being a universalist is pointless with these rules. This is a small boost in power, but I just think it's strange that wizards actually cast the least spells of any full casting class when that's also supposed to be their main feature.

Mask_De_H wrote:

Also, what's the point of not adding Body (Str+Con) to HP,


Body is added to HP in a way, but it's less impactful. You don't add anything (except favored class bonuses) to your hp roll at level, but once you run out of those hp, you can still take up to 2xStr in damage before you're incapacitated. Barbarians also add Str mod x level to hp while raging (which basically doubles their hp).

Example:
Let's say a barbarian is 2nd level with Str 18. They would have ~13 hp (25 raging), 36 Body (44 raging), would take a -2 penalty on all rolls at 18 Body (22 raging), become disabled at 0, dying at -1 and dead at -18. So, low-level creatures/encounters/characters are tougher and higher level stuff is more vulnerable.

Mask_De_H wrote:

but adding Str+Dex to speed?


Str+Dex to speed is just a houserule we've been using for years. In my experience, it just gives the PCs a minor tactical advantage at low levels (with core rules it basically caps out at ~+20' to any non-magical speed).

Mask_De_H wrote:

Also, your Monk is the Unchained Monk with better weapon profs.


I had forgotten about the Unchained rules, actually. This monk's flurry of blows works differently, though. A first level monk would have +1 BAB, and +1/+1 Flurry; at 20th level they would have +20 BAB and +20/20/20/20/15/15/15/15 Flurry. A monk-paladin-x would have Smite Evil on top of that, yadda yadda yadda, does around 900 damage in a round, and can fly, teleport and stuff. Also the weapon profs mean that a "core" monk can flurry with a bow from 100' away at any level, which is another reason I gave Rangers better casting.

Mask_De_H wrote:

Also also, there is no reason for martials to not go Cleric/Druid/Inquisitor as their list, given the DC system.


I'm not totally clear on this next sentence, but if what you are saying is that martial types can choose to prepare and cast from the Cleric, Druid, OR Wizard spell list; with spells/day and spell DCs determined by Wisdom, then that is exactly what I intended. The reason being that, if magic is something that anyone can do with Apparently no consequences, then you are eventually going to just flat-out need it. Don't even want to chock it up to a martial source, it's the same power source as the class spell list you picked.

Mask_De_H wrote:

Speaking of which, splitting DC and knowledge stats for full casters (except the Sorc/Oracle) doesn't "balance" casters. Caster SAD is a myth; full casters are better due to them having better abilities, not a more focused Stat spread.


The reason I folded Con into Str was to make SoDs somewhat less effective and straight damage much more effective. Which I guess shows how much stats even matter. Also, I am aware that using Cha as the DC stat for full casters doesn't really weaken or balance those classes. It's mostly for setting purposes and, I don't know, it felt weird leaving that stat out there all alone.
_________________
- Demon
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
DreamEmulator
NPC


Joined: 13 Oct 2016
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2016 5:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

OgreBattle wrote:
Have you considered the PF Unchained 12 skill shortened list? Or skill proficiency instead of points?

You seem to have left the wizard and sorcerer as is, perhaps you can consider giving the sorcerer BAB 2/3 to make them more distinct from wizard.


I've tried to clarify the skill rules a little more, but it is a proficiency-based system. General skill progression for a character would be to start with about 4 level-appropriate skills (level+3+mods) and "end" with 13-14 such skills at 20th level. Having condensed skills probably wouldn't be unbalanced because skills sort of stop mattering at a point, but if everyone has max ranks in all skills by mid-level, I don't know, it seems like it doesn't actually simplify things in play.

I'll be honest we had all kind of forgotten sorcerers existed (we weren't using the books at the time), but that's a fine idea, so it's in.
_________________
- Demon
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The Gaming Den Forum Index -> It's My Own Invention... All times are GMT
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum




Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group