Not So Old Not So Shame - I Disclose My CGL Credits

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Neurosis
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Post by Neurosis »

I hope it paid in the long run to work for those "very professional, smart people".
It paid in the short run. The long run remains to be seen. The mission is never over (sorry, that's Delta Green, look at me mixing my RPG metaphors).
I thought Street Legends to be a silly penis-extension DMPC book, which, let's be fair, it kind of was. Street Legends Supplement was wholly unnecessary, as was statting out the Last Knight of the Crying Spire - if only because the tie-in material between Earthdawn and Shadowrun is so woefully languished that it's kind of laughable and pitiable at the same time.
There are NPCs in Street Legends that a competent, let alone optimized, runner team could totally kill without breaking a sweat. I statted two of them: Rigger-X and Haze.

That said, of course it's a silly DM boner book. I don't take offense to that. I'm gonna repeat this a lot but Jason decides what gets written, I just try to execute the plans that Moronai hands him down on the golden plates/b].

Whether or not it was unnecessary, statting out Caimbuel was some of the most fun I've ever gotten paid to have in my life. Even if paid should be in quotes because the hourly rate worked out to like less than $2.00 per hour because MY GOD those stats.

Take a break from hating the fact Harlequin even has stats to notice that I slipped the following past JMH: I inserted the spell "Demolish Pants" in his spell list. Actually, maybe JMH noticed it and actually has a sense of the humor. Some of the time.

though I will admit to enjoying The Things We Do For Love.


Thank you! It is either the second or third best piece of fiction I've ever written (not just for SR: period) depending on whether you like Harlequin or ork gang bangers on Kamikaze and Deep Weed better. (I like both equally.)

Were the Accuracy numbers that made a Pistol a more accurate sniping weapon than a sniper rifle your fault, or his?


FTR, I was vehemently against LIMITS, including Accuracy, from the moment I joined the writing team. But the design team unilaterally overruled the writing team every time the subject of Limits was questioned.

How I WANTED "Accuracy" to work was as a small dice pool bonus or penalty, like a -1 for a Remington Roomsweeper or a +3 for a Ranger Arms SM-3. Everyone with actual power told me to shut up and that's stupid.

Tl;dr I can't exactly remember, but I would guess that the Mormon done did it.

PS: I'd love to know who designed the first edition of the PDF of the Core Book that went to drivethruRPG, because it is the single most regrettable purchase I have ever made in my life, given how it's laid out and presented - I have to zoom way the fuck in and THEN center the fucking page, on a fucking 1280x1024 monitor, to say nothing of my 2560x1440. Oh and Ghost forbid I ever fucking try to run a search, because it defaults back to the horribifuckus fuckup that it opens in.

PPS: What drove the decision to drop Food Fight from the core book and put a fucking random run generator in its place?


No clue about any of this particular dumbshit, above my pay grade.

But then, when I left freelancers were actively talking about how Ghostwalker should fall in love with a human woman, so I think the disease had progressed too far by that point.


LOL! I think that this was a year or so before my time.

We laugh, but the question of what exactly to do with Ghostwalker is and always was an open one. Ghostwalker was and is a bad idea. He came in and overturned a setting that a lot of people used, but not in a way that players could interact with or benefit from. The simple fact of the matter is that there have never been any stories told that were better for Ghost Walker being in them. And that includes the stories that were exclusively about Ghost Walker in the first place.


I do have to disagree. As a 16-18 year old boy reading the book (YotC) where Ghostwalker returns, Godzillas the entire fucking city of Denver, and then claims it as his personal fiefdom "BECAUSE DRAGON"...I loved that shit. My soul got a full chub.

Oh, that's an interresting part. Can you tell how this chapter came out to be what it was and what actually happened there (in setting)? Because when I read it, it seemed like a big mess of everyone doing something and end up doing nothing.

Unfortunately, can't remember many of the adventures - I usually skip them, will check them out now though.

EDIT: I'm not implying any bad writing, I was really confused with the whole story, characters seemed acting out randomly, without any real purpose and in the end happened... nothing? Or something?


Actually, what the hell is fucking going on and OH SHIT SOMEBODY HACKED THE NEXUS AND OH DOUBLE SHIT NOW HARLEQUIN AND GHOSTWALKER ARE FIGHTING ON THE 16TH STREET MALL FUCK FUCK SHIT WHAT THE FUCK NOW AZTECHNOLOGY HAS TAKEN BACK THEIR QUARTER OF CITY TRIPLE WHAT THE FUCK was meant to be a feature, not a bug, of that chapter.

In a way, it all involves Harlequin doing something that is simultaneously ludicrously complicated, extremely destructive, and undeniably stupid in a fit of misdirected rage, which is:

a) To my mind, perfectly and entirely in character for H.
b) ACTUALLY why I like the character so much.

Puck helps him because Puck (in my headcanon) is AGGRESSIVELY Chaotic Neutral (with STRONG Chaotic Evil tendencies) and also because Harlequin paid him x million nuyen, where x is some arbitrary, astronomically high number that only a complete idiot would ever refuse.

The tl;dr of Lightning in Denver is: Harlequin and Puck invent analogues to Occupy and Anonymous in Shadowrun and then use them as proxies to take a giant shit in Ghostwalker's big dragon cheerios because ANARCHY IN THE UKFRONT RANGE FREE ZONE!

Then Ghostwalkerzilla vs. Knight of the Crying Spire, FIGHT!

If you want, I can send you a point-by-point blow by blow by PM a week from now of what really happened behind the scenes in that chapter and why.
Last edited by Neurosis on Fri Sep 02, 2016 3:31 pm, edited 2 times in total.
For a minute, I used to be "a guy" in the TTRPG "industry". Now I'm just a nobody. For the most part, it's a relief.
Trank Frollman wrote:One of the reasons we can say insightful things about stuff is that we don't have to pretend to be nice to people. By embracing active aggression, we eliminate much of the passive aggression that so paralyzes things on other gaming forums.
hogarth wrote:As the good book saith, let he who is without boners cast the first stone.
TiaC wrote:I'm not quite sure why this is an argument. (Except that Kaelik is in it, that's a good reason.)
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Post by Longes »

You have an unnecessary quote tag at the end.
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Post by Stahlseele »

Yes, well, Lofwyr has been shown to be pretty hands on about stuff.
If you sufficiently mess with his stuff to annoy him into actually being bothered enough by your actions, then yes, he will simply find and eat you.
I mean, it is canon that he has a wendigo initiate as his personal secretary for crying out loud.
also:
If you want, I can send you a point-by-point blow by blow by PM a week from now of what really happened behind the scenes in that chapter and why.
would that still be nda?
if not i would like for that to be for all to read, because that sounds interesting.
Last edited by Stahlseele on Thu Sep 01, 2016 10:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Nath »

Longes wrote:Related to that, SR material frequently mentions that no one wants to run against Saeder-Krupp because it's ran by a dragon. But, seriously? Is there seriously a real danger that Lofwyr will drop everything else he's doing and will go hunt down some criminals that attacked a lab he owns?
To me, that's two issues conflagrating. First is the aforementioned problem of great dragons being bad characters. Second is the fundamental issues of playing independent criminals taking on powerful organizations in the long term. The absence of retaliation against shadowrunners is required to play over time, but hardly makes sense. Shadowrun relies on a credo: megacorporations need shadowrunners more than what they could get from hunting some down.

And this credo keeps on getting bruised and battered, because people wants to write stories that involve corporate in-house blackops team for instance, or because a creature as powerful and mighty as a dragon cannot possibly tolerate any outrage. As they hold such idea to be evident and true, they consider every character within the setting must do so, even if that go against a principle the setting requires.

But indeed, if Lofwyr/Saeder-Krupp can retaliate against shadowrunners, the game setting crumbles because there are no reason every other megacorporation could not retaliate as well. Which is how you end with Lofwyr personally enacting revenge because that's the only mean not available to the other megacorporation.
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Post by obexpe »

Random lurker here, but I'd like to thank you for your work on Splintered State. When I started looking into Shadowrun, (before I realized that 5e is an unsalvageable system) I was looking for guidance. Many of the adventures, including ones that were written for older editions, seemed to paint a picture that wildly contrasted with the setting that was described in the core rulebook. Splintered State was what basically what taught me how to GM Shadowrun, since it actually did things that were meaningful with key elements of the game like contacts and provided scenarios where the decker wouldn't just flip a switch and be done with things.

I wouldn't exactly call it a stellar adventure--rewards seemed largely disproportional to the difficulty of the job, and the zoo scene was so overtly over the top as an unavoidable surprise attack that I just decided not to include it at all. But it set me on the right track, and wasn't irredeemable trash like virtually all of the mission-based adventures.
Last edited by obexpe on Fri Sep 02, 2016 7:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Neurosis »

@Stahlseele: I really don't know how explaining what happened IN-UNIVERSE in a three-year old published product could possibly be breaking NDA, since it doesn't even get into how the sausage is made, but if JMH is still lurking me and wants to fight that nonsensical legal battle, he knows where to find me.

By "behind the scenes" I meant "bypassing Shadowrun's perpetual reliance on the narrative technique of unreliable narrators", not actually revealing what happened "behind the scenes", if that helps. The latter is not that interesting. JMH was like "shake shit up in Denver, do something with Ghostwalker/spirits/Zebulon". I binge-wrote the chapter over three days on vacation in LA and turned it in. The substance of Jason's edits were "okay looks good". I mean he fixed some typos but, that's about it.

tl;dr "Lightning In Denver" is a case where blame/credit goes to me, not JMH. Same with "Splintered State". He provided the vaguest outline, I wrote from there, he accepted the first draft.

NOW, If I wanted to I could spoil every plot detail I could remember of every upcoming SR5 product everywhere on the internet I could think of but I won't do that for two reasons.

1) I actually like most of the fellow freelancers I'm leaving behind. They're wiz chummers for the most part (Aaron Pavao is a rat fink gully dwarf and can go eat a barrel of cocks). I don't want to make their lives harder by running my mouth off.
2) I actually still like JMH, and I think I totally deserved to get fired. To quote a song I like: "We were stupid, we got caught", the "we" here being my split online personalities.

I got sloppy. I got fired. Lesson learned: be less fucking sloppy.

The only point of contention is, I also think that JMH should have been fired about five years ago for gross incompetence as line dev, and replaced with just about anyone else. Up to and including Frank "Fucking" Trollman or Ancient "Take This Job And Shove It" History or Jordan "I'm So Over This Shit I'm Making Real Money" Weisman.

Or me.

You know, anyone that actually knows or cares about Shadowrun or has any of the skills or the give-a-shit necessary to be a line developer of anything?

There are still such qualified, competent people on the freelancer list, but they're taking their time writing content and climbing the ladder (not that CGL pays raises, that I'm aware of) rather than calling for Jason's firing on the grounds of having no fucking idea what he's doing, and I respect their decision.
Last edited by Neurosis on Fri Sep 02, 2016 3:44 pm, edited 3 times in total.
For a minute, I used to be "a guy" in the TTRPG "industry". Now I'm just a nobody. For the most part, it's a relief.
Trank Frollman wrote:One of the reasons we can say insightful things about stuff is that we don't have to pretend to be nice to people. By embracing active aggression, we eliminate much of the passive aggression that so paralyzes things on other gaming forums.
hogarth wrote:As the good book saith, let he who is without boners cast the first stone.
TiaC wrote:I'm not quite sure why this is an argument. (Except that Kaelik is in it, that's a good reason.)
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Post by Neurosis »

obexpe wrote:Random lurker here, but I'd like to thank you for your work on Splintered State. When I started looking into Shadowrun, (before I realized that 5e is an unsalvageable system) I was looking for guidance. Many of the adventures, including ones that were written for older editions, seemed to paint a picture that wildly contrasted with the setting that was described in the core rulebook. Splintered State was what basically what taught me how to GM Shadowrun, since it actually did things that were meaningful with key elements of the game like contacts and provided scenarios where the decker wouldn't just flip a switch and be done with things.

I wouldn't exactly call it a stellar adventure--rewards seemed largely disproportional to the difficulty of the job, and the zoo scene was so overtly over the top as an unavoidable surprise attack that I just decided not to include it at all. But it set me on the right track, and wasn't irredeemable trash like virtually all of the mission-based adventures.
Thank you opexbe, that really made my day. Lurk less, post moar.. It will change the emotional PH balance of the den for the better.

That said you are WRONG about the zoo scene. My group's hacker was a starting character and she managed to find the hidden wireless network of one of the Chimera assasins, hack into it, and DETONATE THE CORTEX BOMB IN HIS HEAD. Using the then-current draft of Aaron's retarded Matrix rules. With little or no fudging of dice rolls. It was fucking awesome.

So no, the Chimera hit squd was not over the top. They weren't unbeatable. My group withdrew with gunshot wounds but not PC casualties, which was the scenario working as intended.

As for the rewards, they scaled in inverse proportion to the moral shittiness of the person you were turning over the paydata too, which worked as intended within my group (the above hacker actually wanted to give it to fucking BRACKHAVEN on the sole grounds that he was paying the most, while all the other PCs were like FUCK NO, BECAUSE MORALITY, let's give it to the OU contact: in the end they compromised on Ares)

More importantly, the amount they got paid wasn't as crazy stupid retarded low as SR5 would go on to suggest runners should get paid in subsequent products: those are some truly retarded numbers that I fought against and lost.
Last edited by Neurosis on Fri Sep 02, 2016 3:53 pm, edited 3 times in total.
For a minute, I used to be "a guy" in the TTRPG "industry". Now I'm just a nobody. For the most part, it's a relief.
Trank Frollman wrote:One of the reasons we can say insightful things about stuff is that we don't have to pretend to be nice to people. By embracing active aggression, we eliminate much of the passive aggression that so paralyzes things on other gaming forums.
hogarth wrote:As the good book saith, let he who is without boners cast the first stone.
TiaC wrote:I'm not quite sure why this is an argument. (Except that Kaelik is in it, that's a good reason.)
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Post by Username17 »

Neurosis wrote:My group's hacker was a starting character and she managed to find the hidden wireless network of one of the Chimera assasins, hack into it, and DETONATE THE CORTEX BOMB IN HIS HEAD. Using the then-current draft of Aaron's retarded Matrix rules.
You rolled for every wireless device in a 500 meter radius, up to and including every candy bar dispenser and ticket machine?

One of the reasons those rules are so unplayable is that once you have to find hidden or disguised nodes there is no way to know which nodes are important until after you've made some rolls. So any time critical matrix action involves the rolling of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of die rolls. It's totally insane.

-Username17
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Post by Smirnoffico »

Neurosis wrote:If you want, I can send you a point-by-point blow by blow by PM a week from now of what really happened behind the scenes in that chapter and why.
Would love to read it!
Neurosis wrote:The tl;dr of Lightning in Denver is: Harlequin and Puck invent analogues to Occupy and Anonymous in Shadowrun and then use them as proxies to take a giant shit in Ghostwalker's big dragon cheerios because ANARCHY IN THE UKFRONT RANGE FREE ZONE!
This actually bothers me. I always considered Shadowrun to an alternate reality, an Earth 2, where split between 'us' and 'them' happened around 1989. This explain why SR history doesn't follow real world history up to 2011 and we don't need to move awakenin up a year every year. But towards the end of 4th edition SR was steadily becoming more and more 'today's worl with elves and some technological advancemnt' culminating with Bull jokingly saying that 'real deckers' fough first matrix war with 4chan and won.

Now, if we really try to envision how our world would look like in 50-years time with magic and stuff, why do they have to invent Occupy? It already happened. If not... then why didn't it happen earlier?

Also, i remembered "Nothing Personal", it was a nice adventure and I even thought that this might be the one written adventure i'd run. Of course, the thing with those adventures being that they are not adventures, more like detailed story ideas with some fluff and general guidelines - like 'the set is somewhere you already play, the players are your pleyers, some stuff heppens to them, then we have this specific moment detailed to a second, then agan some stuff happen, feel free to flesh it out yourself' and so on. I guess that's inevitable when you have 10 adventures under one cover instead of one. But i gues it's unrelated to the story itself. It was/is nice
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Post by Nath »

Smirnoffico wrote:This actually bothers me. I always considered Shadowrun to an alternate reality, an Earth 2, where split between 'us' and 'them' happened around 1989. This explain why SR history doesn't follow real world history up to 2011 and we don't need to move awakenin up a year every year. But towards the end of 4th edition SR was steadily becoming more and more 'today's worl with elves and some technological advancemnt' culminating with Bull jokingly saying that 'real deckers' fough first matrix war with 4chan and won.

Now, if we really try to envision how our world would look like in 50-years time with magic and stuff, why do they have to invent Occupy? It already happened. If not... then why didn't it happen earlier?
Imagination is when you forgot what your inspiration was. It is very difficult both for the authors and the audience to picture something they never saw before. Authors who manage to pull that (like William Gibson when he introduced cyberspace) belong to a wholly different league than most RPG freelancers do (not to mention wordcount requirements).

So yes, authors who lived through the 2010ies will often write about social movements that looks a lot like Occupy or Anonymous. Much like authors who lived through the 1980ies had social (non-)movements that looked a lot like punk (interestingly enough, William Gibson so-called cyberpunk bear more resemblance to beat generation rather than actual punk). And that's how you get orks "replacing" black people in every respect.

This apply to every other topic. Military conflicts in sci-fi, and cyberpunk especially, drifted from Reagan-era IDS to Gulf War, before focusing on small-scale urban warfare, introduced private military companies and I guess will probably feature more and more of proxy fighting through trained local militias in the coming years (on the other hand, Shadowrun still use drones like it did in the early 1990ies and seems completely oblivious of recent history and mainstream perception, possibly because that would upset class balance with the rigger archetype).

Fantasy is no immune either. So you always get kings, knights, castles and guilds in world that have magic that actually ought to upset the European medieval order.
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Post by Smirnoffico »

Of course we base our imagination on something, usually something that surrounds us. but it's no excuse for having a game set in not-too-sistant future be 'our everyday life with cosmetic changes'. We have a lot of guidelines, some set even in the setting itself, that help guide us in the right direction. I mean, what's the point of writing about how important state politics is for the people in a settting where states are just formalities (that's an example). Why do we have to picture Horizon as an evil Apple (I know, right) instead of trying to imagine what a media-centric mega-corporation could really (there's so, so much potential in that).

We may not be William Gibsons of our age (that's a topic for another discussion), but even here, in the Den, there were some quite fascinating speculations on how future society could look like
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Post by Neurosis »

FrankTrollman wrote:
Neurosis wrote:My group's hacker was a starting character and she managed to find the hidden wireless network of one of the Chimera assasins, hack into it, and DETONATE THE CORTEX BOMB IN HIS HEAD. Using the then-current draft of Aaron's retarded Matrix rules.
You rolled for every wireless device in a 500 meter radius, up to and including every candy bar dispenser and ticket machine?

One of the reasons those rules are so unplayable is that once you have to find hidden or disguised nodes there is no way to know which nodes are important until after you've made some rolls. So any time critical matrix action involves the rolling of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of die rolls. It's totally insane.

-Username17
I think Aaron's Matrix rules may have been slightly less retarded during playtestng. Either that or I was accidentally mind-caulking. I can't remember which. This was back in '12 or '13.

e:

@Nath: you're absolutely spot on. I was just really excited about Occupy and Anonymous and wanted to put them in SR as useful idiots for Harlequin to throw at Ghostwalker (meanwhile H himself is a useful idiot for AZT which I thought was cool) and Jason did not say no. That an "Occupy" analogue would already have happened in SR simply didn't occur to me. That the Nexus aready WAS an Anonymous analogue was discussed in both the text and subtext of the chapter FWIW. Basically Puck's argument to the Nexus is that they weren't Anonymous anymore because they'd sold out to GW and gone full Dragon-Hat.

We use to have discussions on this topic all the time back on the freelancer list. *single tear*
Last edited by Neurosis on Wed Sep 07, 2016 6:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
For a minute, I used to be "a guy" in the TTRPG "industry". Now I'm just a nobody. For the most part, it's a relief.
Trank Frollman wrote:One of the reasons we can say insightful things about stuff is that we don't have to pretend to be nice to people. By embracing active aggression, we eliminate much of the passive aggression that so paralyzes things on other gaming forums.
hogarth wrote:As the good book saith, let he who is without boners cast the first stone.
TiaC wrote:I'm not quite sure why this is an argument. (Except that Kaelik is in it, that's a good reason.)
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