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Koumei
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Post by Koumei »

Aryxbez wrote:In general to any Disgaeagame, I'd want to play a Prinny Period, that'd be somewhat of a dealbreaker otherwise.
Then the deal has broken, basically. Unless you play a Prinny? ala Fuka. Prinnies:
1. Are specifically designed to be identical mass-produced disposable minions
2. Explode when thrown
3. Are essentially automatic minions for real characters (Disgaea, Disgaea 4).

I mean, in their own game, you are playing as a legion of 1000 Prinnies who are all identical, and slaves to Etna, and the fact that there are a thousand of them should probably tell you something about their individual value and life expectancy.
Though as I recall, I think you gave a playable entry for people to play Prinny PC's.
I created stats for them, so people could play them in the same way that you could play an Animated Table or an Awoken Badger in normal D&D: the rules for their existence are there and you can argue with Mister Cavern. I created a few options for people to own piles of Prinnies as minions, too. But I didn't go "Here are playable prinnies, right alongside real people!"
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Post by OgreBattle »

will there be political rules based on what politicians to throw into who
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Post by Longes »

Let's say I want to play a Warhammer Fantasy game. How fucked am I and are there any serious options other than making a FATE hack?
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Post by maglag »

Why not simply a D&D hack? Just add guns, rules for mage brains melting when they roll a natural 1 on a concentration check, palette swap orcs for green, presto.

Heck, googling around a bit, looks like there's some guy who converted Skaven to 3.5 and everything.
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Post by Blicero »

Longes wrote:Let's say I want to play a Warhammer Fantasy game. How fucked am I and are there any serious options other than making a FATE hack?
If you are going for the same play-tier as the WFRP games, I would say LotFP. It does "D&D as tragicomedy" pretty well. Dunno what would work best for a higher-powered game though.
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Post by angelfromanotherpin »

Longes wrote:Let's say I want to play a Warhammer Fantasy game. How fucked am I and are there any serious options other than making a FATE hack?
I think there are a few viable options, but a lot depends on what kind of Warhammer you're trying to play: is the tone grim, goofy, or both? What power level do you want the PCs to operate at?
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Post by Dogbert »

Longes wrote:Let's say I want to play a Warhammer Fantasy game. How fucked am I and are there any serious options other than making a FATE hack?
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Post by Username17 »

The reason for using weapon skills is to facilitate multiclassing. Every power that is dependent on having the Gun Skill tag and a BAB of X makes a Gunslinger/Samurai more viable and every power that is dependent on having a Gunslinger Class Level of X makes the split class character less viable. That's pretty much the beginning and end of it.

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Post by Longes »

angelfromanotherpin wrote:
Longes wrote:Let's say I want to play a Warhammer Fantasy game. How fucked am I and are there any serious options other than making a FATE hack?
I think there are a few viable options, but a lot depends on what kind of Warhammer you're trying to play: is the tone grim, goofy, or both? What power level do you want the PCs to operate at?
Let's say we are aiming at the mixed tone and a power level represented by wargame miniatures. Or warhammer novel people. You know, above the average WFRP character.
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Post by Prak »

Koumei wrote:
Aryxbez wrote:In general to any Disgaeagame, I'd want to play a Prinny Period, that'd be somewhat of a dealbreaker otherwise.
Then the deal has broken, basically. Unless you play a Prinny? ala Fuka. Prinnies:
1. Are specifically designed to be identical mass-produced disposable minions
2. Explode when thrown
3. Are essentially automatic minions for real characters (Disgaea, Disgaea 4).

I mean, in their own game, you are playing as a legion of 1000 Prinnies who are all identical, and slaves to Etna, and the fact that there are a thousand of them should probably tell you something about their individual value and life expectancy.
Though as I recall, I think you gave a playable entry for people to play Prinny PC's.
I created stats for them, so people could play them in the same way that you could play an Animated Table or an Awoken Badger in normal D&D: the rules for their existence are there and you can argue with Mister Cavern. I created a few options for people to own piles of Prinnies as minions, too. But I didn't go "Here are playable prinnies, right alongside real people!"
I mean, conceivably you could have a Real Character that has a horde of prinny minions, and sits in their tower of coke and concubines, sending out a prinny in their stead, with a special "call prinny" item that triggers when the holder explodes. And you play the prinny minions because your real character is too busy snorting cock and getting their coke sucked.
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Post by OgreBattle »

Longes wrote:
angelfromanotherpin wrote:
Longes wrote:Let's say I want to play a Warhammer Fantasy game. How fucked am I and are there any serious options other than making a FATE hack?
I think there are a few viable options, but a lot depends on what kind of Warhammer you're trying to play: is the tone grim, goofy, or both? What power level do you want the PCs to operate at?
Let's say we are aiming at the mixed tone and a power level represented by wargame miniatures. Or warhammer novel people. You know, above the average WFRP character.
Seems like DnD with a level cap at 6 for most mortals would convey that feeling.
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Post by angelfromanotherpin »

Longes wrote:Let's say we are aiming at the mixed tone and a power level represented by wargame miniatures. Or warhammer novel people. You know, above the average WFRP character.
My go-to would be Fantasy Hero. I haven't read any of the novels in decades, but the ones I remember would be modeled pretty well by low-grade superhero physics. PCs can mix and match some casting, some dramatic skill-based effects, and/or a magic item or two and look like Hero-level wargame picks.
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Post by OgreBattle »

Are there any MTG-like games where the energy cards all do something interesting and there aren't just "basic lands".

Like the stuff discussed in the thread about "lands should all have a minor effect that can happen from drop, activation, sacrifice, and so on"
http://www.tgdmb.com/viewtopic.php?p=454827

----

Think MTG will ever revisit "Fantasy Middle East" themes? That was one of their earliest expansions with Arabian Nights. If so, what should they do with it.
Last edited by OgreBattle on Tue May 31, 2016 6:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Longes »

About to play ACKS as a ruinguard (gish from Player's Companion). Anything important I absolutely need to know about the game?
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Post by Prak »

OgreBattle wrote:Think MTG will ever revisit "Fantasy Middle East" themes? That was one of their earliest expansions with Arabian Nights. If so, what should they do with it.
Mark Rosewater has said on his tumblr that this is more of a "when" than an "if." More likely it'll be a new "fantasy middle east" than a strict return to Rabiah, the plane Arabian Nights was set on.
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Post by Username17 »

OgreBattle wrote:Are there any MTG-like games where the energy cards all do something interesting and there aren't just "basic lands".
Shadowfist. The sites are also your life in the sense that they are what gets attacked, and almost all of them have significant effects. The main sites are played face down, and they are revealed when they take damage or you want to use their powers.
Think MTG will ever revisit "Fantasy Middle East" themes? That was one of their earliest expansions with Arabian Nights. If so, what should they do with it.
They will definitely do that at some point. Indeed, they kinda already did where the Tarkir Khanates were based on different portions of the Mongol empire, and the most popular one (Abzan) was the Ilkhanate. And while there's a lot of East Asian influence there for obvious reasons, it did involve a bunch of Middle Eastern looking people running around the desert in baggy clothing.

A more directly Middle Eastern influenced block is guaranteed at some point. But it looks like they've committed themselves to doing South Asian steam punk first.

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Post by OgreBattle »

So, what exactly is the difference between Arabic and Persian mythology/fantasy settings. Saw that Rosewater mixed them up and a fan corrected him.
Longes wrote:About to play ACKS as a ruinguard (gish from Player's Companion). Anything important I absolutely need to know about the game?
Plate armor is affordable, it's 10g per point of AC with armor. You can also get a 1d10 damage arbalest for a fair price and have a chance of one-shotting the average humanoid.

If I remember correctly you can also buy a loyal wardog at level one with some commands already taught to it. You can also get a familiar with certain class skills, like a snake with a save-or-die bite.

It's not super duper balanced but I got the feeling that everyone has a chance of killing everyone else.
Last edited by OgreBattle on Tue May 31, 2016 10:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Mechalich »

OgreBattle wrote:So, what exactly is the difference between Arabic and Persian mythology/fantasy settings. Saw that Rosewater mixed them up and a fan corrected him.
I believe the difference is primarily the religious basis. Persian mythology refers to things that came out of Zoroastrianism or even older religions from that region, while Arabic mythology pretty much implies Islam as the backdrop.
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Post by Blicero »

Longes wrote:About to play ACKS as a ruinguard (gish from Player's Companion). Anything important I absolutely need to know about the game?
Heavy armor is quite good. Shields are also quite good. Low level enemies tend to have pretty low attack bonuses, so you can often make it so you only get hit on a 17 or above.

I forget if ruinguards get spells at level 1. If they do, sleep is the best, probably followed by summon berserkers. The latter's effectiveness is more dependent on MC fiat.

Also, don't worry too much if you die. It will probably happen at some point.
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Post by Longes »

Blicero wrote:
Longes wrote:About to play ACKS as a ruinguard (gish from Player's Companion). Anything important I absolutely need to know about the game?
Heavy armor is quite good. Shields are also quite good. Low level enemies tend to have pretty low attack bonuses, so you can often make it so you only get hit on a 17 or above.

I forget if ruinguards get spells at level 1. If they do, sleep is the best, probably followed by summon berserkers. The latter's effectiveness is more dependent on MC fiat.

Also, don't worry too much if you die. It will probably happen at some point.
Heh. These are exactly the two spells I picked. What's better for the third, Charm or Magic Missile? At the moment I've got a lovely AC 9. For profficiencies I grabbed Mystic Aura and Intimidation, resulting in +6 reaction bonus with chaotic creatures.
GM allowed me to mess around with Custom Class generator, so I made Ruinguard 2.0 by chucking out spell-striking and grabbing full mage and full cleric casting instead. It even got 150xp cheaper to level up.
Last edited by Longes on Tue May 31, 2016 1:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Blicero »

Longes wrote:
Heh. These are exactly the two spells I picked. What's better for the third, Charm or Magic Missile? At the moment I've got a lovely AC 9. For profficiencies I grabbed Mystic Aura and Intimidation, resulting in +6 reaction bonus with chaotic creatures.
GM allowed me to mess around with Custom Class generator, so I made Ruinguard 2.0 by chucking out spell-striking and grabbing full mage and full cleric casting instead. It even got 150xp cheaper to level up.
I would probably go for charm person. It is super useful if you run into an ogre, for example.
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Post by OgreBattle »

So I was yet again rereading a thread on multiclassing and resource management and how certain combinations are gonna be much better than others.

http://www.tgdmb.com/viewtopic.php?t=53 ... sc&start=0

That got me thinking about a multiclassing system where you choose one class from one pool, and the subclass from a secondary pool. Could the sample resource mechanics below be split up into these two categories fairly:
FrankTrollman wrote:
Assassin

Warm up is the name of the game here. You have various abilities, but they require time to activate. You can do your basic super crossbow shot by giving up movement for the turn, but if you want to do your death strike, you have to give up an entire turn.
Berserker

Someone gets to have a Rage Bar, and the Berserker is a good obvious fit for that. Power up your super moves by hitting people and taking damage. You could institute a limit on sacrificing chickens to the Berserker by having fatigue set in a certain amount of time after the ragebar starts up.
Druid

Druids have always been way overcrowded conceptually, being everything from spirit shamans to nature priests to lycanthropic fighting machines. Here, we're going for the more "deals with nature spirits" end of things and less with the "bear warrior". You have a number of spirits that can aid you and at any given moment one of them is available. This is like a Green Arrow WoF setup, where you randomly determine which spirit you get to use each round and that spirit comes with a fixed set of options. So if you get Thunder Spirit this round you can use any of the Thunder Spirit powers, and if you get the Oak Spirit or Wave Spirit instead, you get a different set of powers to choose from.
Hero

Someone is going to want a "simple" character where they can spam the same attacks over and over again if that is what they want to do. There does need to be an "everything at will" class, and I think the Hero is it.
Monk

Magical martial arts are based on the linking of stances and maneuvers. That is, you can spend an action to change to a new stance, which will give you a new list of maneuvers you can use. Kind of like a warblade, but the maneuvers you get each time you refresh are fixed to short lists, in order to make the mid-battle resculpts take less table-time.
Necromancer

Incarnum was terrible, but many of the underlying concepts were not bad. Necromancers get a certain amount of Life Essence that they can route to various things. Basically this means that the army you can have gets bigger (and if you go for a big Diablo 2 style golem instead, that can be bigger) as you go up in level, and also that as your army (or bodyguard) gets more powerful you drain off your own ability to shoot black beams that kill people. Most importantly of all, it gives a solid in-character reason why your personal attacks are less level appropriate than those of the other characters when you have a skeleton army going.
Paladin

The new improved Paladin is basically a Crusader with more healing and protection wards. So you get a small deck-based WoF. Divine inspiration gives you a couple of choices each turn and you do whatever seems most useful at the time.
Psion

I am not a fan of spell point systems, but many people are. The Psion would get power points and use them to power their abilities. In essence, everything is available all the time, but there's a pretty short battery per encounter. Power Points would come back quickly with meditation. To balance this with the Wizard (see below), you'd give them less powers known and also give them few enough power points (and a steep enough cost curve) that they want to use their smaller powers sometimes.
Rogue

The Rogue is also nominally an "everything at will" class, except that all their tricks have trigger conditions (like Sneak Attacks requiring enemies to be flanked or denied their dex bonus). This means that while all of your tricks are theoretically unlimited, the actual class is fairly complex to play because you have to set up special conditions to use your stuff.
Warlock

You have big powers and small powers. The big powers all have Drain of various kinds, which makes you want to use them as close to the end of battles as possible. But you still have your eldritch blasts.
Wizard

The idea here is to do spell preparation, but to do so in a way that is less annoying than 3e's "prepare 30 spells and tough it out all day" version. With this you get a small pile of spell slots to prepare into, but you can prepare new spells between encounters. So it's like 4e in that you have what are essentially encounter powers, but unlike 4e in that that is all you have and that you can trade those out in a few minutes. When you run out of prepared spells, you can fallback on your cantrips and reserve spells.

----

So off the top of my head, that's 11 resource systems and no one tells you that the adventure has to be over for the day because they've cast color spray twice. Note that such systems don't handle a lot of the "adventure mode" abilities that people want and need. You're going to need to wait longer than a round or two before you seduce the princess or make a suit of chain mail. So you're still going to need "rituals" or "skills" or some shit that takes significant time and possibly other resources to do various stuff.

But you're also going to have to profoundly limit the way these things interact. I really don't see anything more than "subclassing" or "split classing" to be even possible in such a scenario. Open multiclassing is right the fuck out.

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Post by Mask_De_H »

You'd have to balance multiple resource management setups in concert together, which makes your design and playtesting job a shitload harder.

If you want to split, the way to do it is to pick one specific resource management system for your multiclassing and stick with it. Simplest would probably be the Hero's all day, but I could see a case for the Monk's stances (for an FFX2 dress sphere system) or one of the all-day Vancian slots/Rage Bar setups.
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Post by Prak »

So, the phrase "scalpel of the gods" (like Hammer of the Gods) came to me this morning, and I like the idea of a sort of divine casting and divine dedicated assassin class (like that one from Book of Erectile Disfunction, but good).

Is there a way, though, to do a smite or sneak attack type mechanic that works on "targets assigned by my boss (or people associated with them)?"
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Post by Mask_De_H »

A Quarry or Favored Enemy sort of thing, or just regular old Smite {Alternate Alignment} would probably work, Prak.
FrankTrollman wrote: Halfling women, as I'm sure you are aware, combine all the "fun" parts of pedophilia without any of the disturbing, illegal, or immoral parts.
K wrote:That being said, the usefulness of airships for society is still transporting cargo because it's an option that doesn't require a powerful wizard to show up for work on time instead of blowing the day in his harem of extraplanar sex demons/angels.
Chamomile wrote: See, it's because K's belief in leaving generation of individual monsters to GMs makes him Chaotic, whereas Frank's belief in the easier usability of monsters pre-generated by game designers makes him Lawful, and clearly these philosophies are so irreconcilable as to be best represented as fundamentally opposed metaphysical forces.
Whipstitch wrote:You're on a mad quest, dude. I'd sooner bet on Zeus getting bored and letting Sisyphus put down the fucking rock.
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