I've been debating between a "different dimensions" (i.e. three "metaverses" based off of the three possible forms a Hydrogen universe could form; dense, bang, echo; using the three supernatural realms of After Sundown to define their appearance, denizens, and contents) and a "space travel" (leaning towards space opera over hard science) setting. However, I've also recently come to realize that most space &/or science fantasy settings don't do one or the other; but a mix of one "other" dimension; and "normal" space (Dune, Star Wars, WH40k, and so many more).
The notion of limiting "conceptual space" that Frank used to limit the supernatural realms of After Sundown is likely related to why most literary settings only have one supernatural realm in addition to the mortal realm. However, only one other supernatural realm isn't quite as "Heavy Metal" as using the supernatural realms that humans around the world have been using for millenia (i.e. "sky/overburn/genesis/inferno"; "ground/dreamspace/life/astral"; "cave/underchill/death/cold").
Right now; populating the mundane universe seems like the larger challenge. One solution might be to go in the direction of merging the Astral and mundane realms, and just accept that Elder Plants and Cthulhu aren't merely extradimensional invaders, but intradimensional invaders whose travel methods seem extradimensional (human source material supports that sort of idea; e.g. A Wrinkle In Time).
Is there any benefits/flaws from either of these directions that spring to mind in others?
Designing a Science Fantasy Heartbreaker's Cosmo(s/logy)?
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Judging__Eagle
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Designing a Science Fantasy Heartbreaker's Cosmo(s/logy)?
The Gaming Den; where Mathematics are rigorously applied to Mythology.
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OgreBattle
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There's also the shadowrun method where different planes of existence *seem* infinite and if spirits truly exist or are reflections of human desire is kept vague.
With "Cthulu is intradimensional but far away", how does 'mundane' technology like riding horses, sailing ships, and exiting orbit in rockets fit into it? Can I travel to planet/continent Cthulu?
Say "Journey to the West" has humans and demons all living on earth but it was written at a time overland travel was limited by horses, take that setting and give people supersonic jets and the journey to the west is a lot shorter.
Something I've been considering is having planets and moons so monsters come from a certain moon, cthulu and his non elucidian geometry is inside a gas giant, inside of the sun is where Brahma dwells. That's what some Final Fantasy games do, with a trip to the moon being end-game content. There's also the 'underworld' actually being under the ground and lit with lava or something else.
In Vanillaware's Odin Sphere even something like "where ghosts go when people die" is a place you could walk to from your house if you were hardcore enough.
I figure the main thing to get down is what methods of travel are available to your campaign setting's common folk, PC's, and big name NPC's.
With "Cthulu is intradimensional but far away", how does 'mundane' technology like riding horses, sailing ships, and exiting orbit in rockets fit into it? Can I travel to planet/continent Cthulu?
Say "Journey to the West" has humans and demons all living on earth but it was written at a time overland travel was limited by horses, take that setting and give people supersonic jets and the journey to the west is a lot shorter.
Something I've been considering is having planets and moons so monsters come from a certain moon, cthulu and his non elucidian geometry is inside a gas giant, inside of the sun is where Brahma dwells. That's what some Final Fantasy games do, with a trip to the moon being end-game content. There's also the 'underworld' actually being under the ground and lit with lava or something else.
In Vanillaware's Odin Sphere even something like "where ghosts go when people die" is a place you could walk to from your house if you were hardcore enough.
I figure the main thing to get down is what methods of travel are available to your campaign setting's common folk, PC's, and big name NPC's.
Last edited by OgreBattle on Tue Apr 05, 2016 8:12 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Judging__Eagle
- Prince
- Posts: 4671
- Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm
- Location: Lake Ontario is in my backyard; Canada
I'm currently aiming for what I've noticed is a recurring cosmic structure among human cultures of a skyheavenburning above; a waterdreamlighting middle; and a cavehelfrost below; and wish to use it on its own for a setting; however I feel that this isn't quite as Heavy Metal as I could go; and I do also want to use aspects of space travel.
A similar setting to this idea would be the WH40k(& WHFB); where the other dimensions are accessed in order to speed up space travel; and places where there are depths into an other dimension result in places such as the Eye of Terror.
However, other space operas that tap into these concepts include Dune (not sure if metacognition is astral or what though; but it also affects the space travel of the setting); and Star Wars (Orphic; ghost contacting; but also hyperspace travel). Additionally modern supernatural (as well as post-modern horror) has concepts such as creatures travelling unknown expanses of space (John Carter of Mars, Cthulhu Mythos (Elder Things; Cthulhu; Mi Go); The Eternaut; Chronicles of Amber; A Wrinkle in Time; The Neverending Story; [...] etc.).
Now; building this in a remotely sane manner makes my head ache. Even determining what needs to be outlined on the larger scale; such as cosmology; how it affects biology, pre-history, history, and current events.
Additionally; making the three realms distinct; and interesting is also important.
The Overburn has unimaginable raw resources; and rapid travel throughout.
The Dreamspace has optimal living conditions; and expansive living space.
The Underchill has powerful ancient wonders; and conceals with ease.
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AboveOverburnGenesis The parts of the metaverse where the creation event whimpered; instead of banged. The total space between locations is smaller; matter (and resources) are in both closer; and larger quantities.
In this realm Lithic creatures (Fairy-Devils Yazata; Akuma; Ifrit) are the natives. Their primary competitors are Cetecean-Ungulate formed (Goblin-Demons; Lorax-Isz; Sprig'Gigerian; Minotroll) which have long since infested the realm; who themselves are the mutated remnants of invading armies long sent by the Astral realm's Elder Plant Empire.
People want to travel here because distances are shorter; raw materials are a plenty.
People avoid here because the most powerful Ifrit claim sovereignty over all stars, and build their agony-palaces to orbit or encircle them; while lesser Ifrit travel to a star's planets build colonial outposts on, and ferry back sufficient agony-viable stock; in exchange for gaining the favour of the Ifrit whom claims the supplied agony-palace. Compounding this; is the fact that the worlds themselves are often teeming with starving lesser Goblin-Demons; and gluttonous greater Goblin-Demons
As such, being an Ifrit agony-slave keeps all but the most daring from venturing on planets long.
over whole planets; and sometimes the competing Ifrit for a single planet can number in the hundreds to thousands; with their Akuma platoons and Yazata flights; numbering in the thousands to millions; and millions to trillions; respectively.
creatures here are lithic (devil-fairies) and ceteceanungulatal (demon-goblins)
Infernal Dimension Engines allow
=========
That's sort of the direction I want to go. Simple at a distance (chunkable groups of information); but able to add more details as things are zoomed in.
A good example of that is how I've reshuffled creature types in terms of their power sources, added in some concepts to certain creature types; and limited others a great deal. Fauns, Pan and Minotaurs look like whale-ungulates; Giant Animals (shoggoths) look like macroscale single-celled organisms (but often get camouflaging abilities).
Troglodytes are the generic Primate & related; but an Ogre has Large Size; while a Large Teethed ghoul has Warform. An other example could be a a Mantis Shrimp Mi Go which has Burrowing &/or Claws of Darkness.
I'm also considering making Goblin-Demons and Zombies attempts by Elder Things to colonize the Overburn and the Underchill; and the fact that Shoggoth (Giant Animals) are rebellious, murderous, (and insane) is due to continual conflicting tampering by Wraiths and Ifrit.
A similar setting to this idea would be the WH40k(& WHFB); where the other dimensions are accessed in order to speed up space travel; and places where there are depths into an other dimension result in places such as the Eye of Terror.
However, other space operas that tap into these concepts include Dune (not sure if metacognition is astral or what though; but it also affects the space travel of the setting); and Star Wars (Orphic; ghost contacting; but also hyperspace travel). Additionally modern supernatural (as well as post-modern horror) has concepts such as creatures travelling unknown expanses of space (John Carter of Mars, Cthulhu Mythos (Elder Things; Cthulhu; Mi Go); The Eternaut; Chronicles of Amber; A Wrinkle in Time; The Neverending Story; [...] etc.).
Now; building this in a remotely sane manner makes my head ache. Even determining what needs to be outlined on the larger scale; such as cosmology; how it affects biology, pre-history, history, and current events.
Additionally; making the three realms distinct; and interesting is also important.
The Overburn has unimaginable raw resources; and rapid travel throughout.
The Dreamspace has optimal living conditions; and expansive living space.
The Underchill has powerful ancient wonders; and conceals with ease.
=========
AboveOverburnGenesis The parts of the metaverse where the creation event whimpered; instead of banged. The total space between locations is smaller; matter (and resources) are in both closer; and larger quantities.
In this realm Lithic creatures (Fairy-Devils Yazata; Akuma; Ifrit) are the natives. Their primary competitors are Cetecean-Ungulate formed (Goblin-Demons; Lorax-Isz; Sprig'Gigerian; Minotroll) which have long since infested the realm; who themselves are the mutated remnants of invading armies long sent by the Astral realm's Elder Plant Empire.
People want to travel here because distances are shorter; raw materials are a plenty.
People avoid here because the most powerful Ifrit claim sovereignty over all stars, and build their agony-palaces to orbit or encircle them; while lesser Ifrit travel to a star's planets build colonial outposts on, and ferry back sufficient agony-viable stock; in exchange for gaining the favour of the Ifrit whom claims the supplied agony-palace. Compounding this; is the fact that the worlds themselves are often teeming with starving lesser Goblin-Demons; and gluttonous greater Goblin-Demons
As such, being an Ifrit agony-slave keeps all but the most daring from venturing on planets long.
over whole planets; and sometimes the competing Ifrit for a single planet can number in the hundreds to thousands; with their Akuma platoons and Yazata flights; numbering in the thousands to millions; and millions to trillions; respectively.
creatures here are lithic (devil-fairies) and ceteceanungulatal (demon-goblins)
Infernal Dimension Engines allow
=========
That's sort of the direction I want to go. Simple at a distance (chunkable groups of information); but able to add more details as things are zoomed in.
A good example of that is how I've reshuffled creature types in terms of their power sources, added in some concepts to certain creature types; and limited others a great deal. Fauns, Pan and Minotaurs look like whale-ungulates; Giant Animals (shoggoths) look like macroscale single-celled organisms (but often get camouflaging abilities).
Troglodytes are the generic Primate & related; but an Ogre has Large Size; while a Large Teethed ghoul has Warform. An other example could be a a Mantis Shrimp Mi Go which has Burrowing &/or Claws of Darkness.
I'm also considering making Goblin-Demons and Zombies attempts by Elder Things to colonize the Overburn and the Underchill; and the fact that Shoggoth (Giant Animals) are rebellious, murderous, (and insane) is due to continual conflicting tampering by Wraiths and Ifrit.
Last edited by Judging__Eagle on Wed Apr 06, 2016 6:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
The Gaming Den; where Mathematics are rigorously applied to Mythology.
While everyone's Philosophy is not in accord, that doesn't mean we're not on board.
While everyone's Philosophy is not in accord, that doesn't mean we're not on board.