Trans characters in video games?
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Trans characters in video games?
Are there any trans characters in video games? I'm going to exclude crossdressers from this (so no Bridget from Guilty Gear), because... a lot of crossdressers are cis-men who just like wearing dresses, and not necessarily people who were designated male at birth but identify as female.
I know of precisely one character who is supposedly trans, a protagonist from FF13(?), but I don't really trust the person who told me that.
Are there any characters in video games who are explicitly, canonically and specifically trans? Games with character customization don't really count either.
I know of precisely one character who is supposedly trans, a protagonist from FF13(?), but I don't really trust the person who told me that.
Are there any characters in video games who are explicitly, canonically and specifically trans? Games with character customization don't really count either.
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.
Winnah wrote:No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.
FrankTrollman wrote:In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.
You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.
There's supposed to be one in Dragon Age: Inquisition, but I haven't played the game so I don't know
He jumps like a damned dragoon, and charges into battle fighting rather insane monsters with little more than his bare hands and rather nasty spell effects conjured up solely through knowledge and the local plantlife. He unerringly knows where his goal lies, he breathes underwater and is untroubled by space travel, seems to have no limits to his actual endurance and favors killing his enemies by driving both boots square into their skull. His agility is unmatched, and his strength legendary, able to fling about a turtle shell big enough to contain a man with enough force to barrel down a near endless path of unfortunates.
--The horror of Mario
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--The horror of Mario
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There's a pretty big list on Wikipedia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_char ... ideo_games
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_char ... ideo_games
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Birdo was originally a boy who "thinks he is a girl." Hey, if you wanted positive examples, you should have specified.
Poison is a transwoman. There is no canon answer regarding the state of her genitals, if you were curious. Company policy seems to be to let both employees and fans think whatever they want. That is probably wise, because if it's not porn and you find yourself talking about any character's genitals you have probably already dun goofed.
Poison is a transwoman. There is no canon answer regarding the state of her genitals, if you were curious. Company policy seems to be to let both employees and fans think whatever they want. That is probably wise, because if it's not porn and you find yourself talking about any character's genitals you have probably already dun goofed.
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Poison from Final Fight is (in)famously a post-op male.
Because Capcom thought it would be better to beat up trans people instead of women folk.
edit: dsmatticus ninja's me right as I post *grumble* *grumble*
Because Capcom thought it would be better to beat up trans people instead of women folk.
edit: dsmatticus ninja's me right as I post *grumble* *grumble*
Last edited by Shrapnel on Mon Jan 18, 2016 12:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
Is this wretched demi-bee
Half asleep upon my knee
Some freak from a menagerie?
No! It's Eric, the half a bee
Half asleep upon my knee
Some freak from a menagerie?
No! It's Eric, the half a bee
Yeah, I pulled up Wikipedia. That specific list is actually non-representative for this specific topic, since it's talking about any character who is Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual (HA) or Trans (HAHAHAHAHA), and not even listing them, but actually talking about treatment of LGBT people in video games.
There's a wikipedia List of Trans Fictional Characters which is more representative, but lists only five characters in the Video Game category-
I wish Krem were a playable character, but he seems to be the most positive representation on that very short list.
But demonstrably there are five trans characters in video games. Does anyone know of playable trans characters in games on the market* that are canonically trans**?
*You could argue that Corruption of Champions counts, but it's an internet flash game and so counts way less. Also... there's that whole "player-created character" thing.
**I personally think of Bayonetta as a trans woman based mostly on the need for trans video characters, gay cis-men being a bit dumb, some folk lore, and weird character design. But I seriously doubt Sega will ever say "Oh, yeah, Bayonetta is totally trans."
Edit: to expand on Poison, as I understand the case- In Japan, Poison is a trans woman, though referred to as a "newhalf" which I guess is the Japanese term for a trans woman (I don't know enough about usage of the term to have an opinion on it...). When Final Fight was translated for America, her backstory was left out, and she was treated as a cis-woman. The producer of Street Fighter IV later stated that in the US, Poison is a post-operative trans woman, but in Japan she is pre-op. I don't know the legitimacy of this, but it's possibly the closest we'll get to some kind of definitive statement, even if it was sort of a joke.
There is a problem of "villainous crossdressers." Because of the stigma which says people who defy the gender binary are "perverted deviants" it's way easier to get away with saying a villain is trans (or gay, or lesbian, or bisexual) than a protagonist. This annoys me.
There's a wikipedia List of Trans Fictional Characters which is more representative, but lists only five characters in the Video Game category-
- Black Swan (To Kill A Black Swan)
- Erica Anderson (Catherine)
- Poison (Final Fight)
- Cremisius "Krem" Aclassi (Dragon Age: Inquisition)
- Vivian (Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door)
I wish Krem were a playable character, but he seems to be the most positive representation on that very short list.
But demonstrably there are five trans characters in video games. Does anyone know of playable trans characters in games on the market* that are canonically trans**?
*You could argue that Corruption of Champions counts, but it's an internet flash game and so counts way less. Also... there's that whole "player-created character" thing.
**I personally think of Bayonetta as a trans woman based mostly on the need for trans video characters, gay cis-men being a bit dumb, some folk lore, and weird character design. But I seriously doubt Sega will ever say "Oh, yeah, Bayonetta is totally trans."
Edit: to expand on Poison, as I understand the case- In Japan, Poison is a trans woman, though referred to as a "newhalf" which I guess is the Japanese term for a trans woman (I don't know enough about usage of the term to have an opinion on it...). When Final Fight was translated for America, her backstory was left out, and she was treated as a cis-woman. The producer of Street Fighter IV later stated that in the US, Poison is a post-operative trans woman, but in Japan she is pre-op. I don't know the legitimacy of this, but it's possibly the closest we'll get to some kind of definitive statement, even if it was sort of a joke.
There is a problem of "villainous crossdressers." Because of the stigma which says people who defy the gender binary are "perverted deviants" it's way easier to get away with saying a villain is trans (or gay, or lesbian, or bisexual) than a protagonist. This annoys me.
Last edited by Prak on Mon Jan 18, 2016 12:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.
Winnah wrote:No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.
FrankTrollman wrote:In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.
You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.
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It would be clearer to just say post-op transwoman. Anything else is going to be way too ambiguous.Shrapnel wrote:Poison from Final Fight is (in)famously a post-op male.
Because Capcom thought it would be better to beat up trans people instead of women folk.
edit: dsmatticus ninja's me right as I post *grumble* *grumble*
Also the when, how, and why of Poison ended up a transwoman is not entirely clear, mostly because if you sniff hard enough you'll catch the faint scent of corporate BS. The official claim is that Poison was changed to be trans after the Japanese release but before the English localization (for the reasons you describe). The problem with that is that some early concept art from before both the Japanese release and English localization already describes her as trans (not using the exact word, mind, because it's in Japanese).
I don't know what the original idea for Poison was, but they were definitely contemplating her biological sex before the game hit shelves. Also remember that descriptions of Poison's first couple of incarnations are really schizophrenic. It really, really looks like the sort of thing that came up at a company meeting but never got resolved, leaving different members of the project operating on different assumptions until finally they just embraced the confusion they'd created by failing to make up their mind.
Last edited by DSMatticus on Mon Jan 18, 2016 1:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Going by the Paper Mario wiki, Vivian was probably trans in the Japanese version, referring to herself as a member of the Shadow Sisters, which her evil elder sisters insistently corrected to Shadow Siblings. Also described with a phrase meaning either trans woman or cute boy, depending on the kanji used.
Possibly the playable Saber in Fate/EXTRA, who is a magic VR reconstruction of a Roman Emperor. The game is ambiguous on whether she was a cis woman while alive.
Possibly the playable Saber in Fate/EXTRA, who is a magic VR reconstruction of a Roman Emperor. The game is ambiguous on whether she was a cis woman while alive.
DSMatticus wrote:It's not just that everything you say is stupid, but that they are Gordian knots of stupid that leave me completely bewildered as to where to even begin. After hearing you speak Alexander the Great would stab you and triumphantly declare the puzzle solved.
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Good point. Looking it over, it's not a very good list. My google-fu is weak, mostly because I was rushing.Prak wrote:Yeah, I pulled up Wikipedia. That specific list is actually non-representative for this specific topic, since it's talking about any character who is Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual (HA) or Trans (HAHAHAHAHA), and not even listing them, but actually talking about treatment of LGBT people in video games.
Most of what I could've said that might have been of use has already been said better by others.
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The kangaroo in Bloody Roar
Faris in FFV lives life as a man
In FFXIII Vanille and Fang aren't really constrained by gender identities, while Lightning is pretty asexual.
There's that gym run by the gay guys in FF7, one of the people there has a woman's body but is referred to as 'bro' I think.
Chrono Trigger's Flea
Streets of Rage 3's Ash is... well he might just be a leatherdaddy gaybear man's man.
Erica in Atlus's Catherine is post op:
Faris in FFV lives life as a man
In FFXIII Vanille and Fang aren't really constrained by gender identities, while Lightning is pretty asexual.
There's that gym run by the gay guys in FF7, one of the people there has a woman's body but is referred to as 'bro' I think.
Chrono Trigger's Flea
Streets of Rage 3's Ash is... well he might just be a leatherdaddy gaybear man's man.
Erica in Atlus's Catherine is post op:
Re: Trans characters in video games?
Pokemon X/Y, at least in the japanese version, had a nameless NPC that looked like a woman mention that they were a Karate King six months ago, but now had their current looks thanks to medical science. It doesn't straight say that character is a transgender, however karate kings in Pokemon always show up as big muscled males, while female martial artist trainers are called Battle Girls, so it could be read that said NPC is a transgender.
From what I've heard. Vivian is really female. In the japanese version her sister refers to her with male pronouns which is very insulting, so I think it's just a sign of the abuse she's put through.
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Nope.Wiseman wrote:From what I've heard. Vivian is really female. In the japanese version her sister refers to her with male pronouns which is very insulting, so I think it's just a sign of the abuse she's put through.
DSMatticus wrote:It's not just that everything you say is stupid, but that they are Gordian knots of stupid that leave me completely bewildered as to where to even begin. After hearing you speak Alexander the Great would stab you and triumphantly declare the puzzle solved.
@Ogrebattle- Thanks for the examples. I talked about Erica (she... isn't what I'm looking for because you don't know until you see one specific ending and it's used to enable a sexist joke). Side scrolling Beat 'em Ups... I can't say the examples don't count, but it's not like they're known for heavy characterization in-game. Good to know about them, though.
Also good to know about the FF stuff.
@Maglag- yeah, I forgot about her until I thought to see what examples TV Tropes had for it's Transsexual page. She's actually a good example, matter of fact, not fetishized, fairly damned empowering, and not used for a joke (or at least, not an insulting joke).
Also an interesting point about Touhou.
I think ultimately what I'd really like to find is a playable version of a character like Krem from DAI- his identity is canonical and explicit, there's an answer as to whether he sought gender confirmation and why he ultimately didn't, and he isn't sexualized, fetishized, used for a lame insulting joke, or the like. He simply is who he is, and it's treated similarly to other characters' classes or whatever. I just wish I knew a game with a playable protagonist like that.
Or a canonical one, anyway. Because nothing is stopping me from playing Bayonetta and just believing she is a trans woman.
Well, nothing other than my lack of money, anyway.
Also good to know about the FF stuff.
@Maglag- yeah, I forgot about her until I thought to see what examples TV Tropes had for it's Transsexual page. She's actually a good example, matter of fact, not fetishized, fairly damned empowering, and not used for a joke (or at least, not an insulting joke).
Also an interesting point about Touhou.
I think ultimately what I'd really like to find is a playable version of a character like Krem from DAI- his identity is canonical and explicit, there's an answer as to whether he sought gender confirmation and why he ultimately didn't, and he isn't sexualized, fetishized, used for a lame insulting joke, or the like. He simply is who he is, and it's treated similarly to other characters' classes or whatever. I just wish I knew a game with a playable protagonist like that.
Or a canonical one, anyway. Because nothing is stopping me from playing Bayonetta and just believing she is a trans woman.
Well, nothing other than my lack of money, anyway.
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.
Winnah wrote:No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.
FrankTrollman wrote:In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.
You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.
Look, I didn't play Catherine and neither did you, but there is a huge difference between having a character say something stupid and having the game say something stupid. As I recall, none of the characters, especially not fuckface's friends, are portrayed as good people, so if one of them said something offense it only means that an objectively terrible person said something horrible.Prak wrote:@Ogrebattle- Thanks for the examples. I talked about Erica (she... isn't what I'm looking for because you don't know until you see one specific ending and it's used to enable a sexist joke).
If I watch a movie and KKK guy says racist shit, it doesn't mean the movie is racist, because he probably wasn't portrayed as being right.
The U.S. isn't a democracy and if you think it is, you are a rube.DSMatticus wrote:Kaelik gonna kaelik. Whatcha gonna do?
That's libertarians for you - anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.
As far as I remember, in Catherine one of the secondary plots is a developing relationship between Erica, the waitress in the bar characters hang out, and Toby, the new and youngest member of the group. Throughout the game characters drop hints that Erica was a guy, but Toby doesn't get it. He and Erica have sex by the end of the game, and in the true ending there's a revelation that Erica was a guy, with the "I want my V-Card back" being Toby's reaction to that. It's mostly played for laughs, and Toby doesn't show any particular aversion to Erica at any point afterwards.Kaelik wrote:Look, I didn't play Catherine and neither did you, but there is a huge difference between having a character say something stupid and having the game say something stupid. As I recall, none of the characters, especially not fuckface's friends, are portrayed as good people, so if one of them said something offense it only means that an objectively terrible person said something horrible.Prak wrote:@Ogrebattle- Thanks for the examples. I talked about Erica (she... isn't what I'm looking for because you don't know until you see one specific ending and it's used to enable a sexist joke).
If I watch a movie and KKK guy says racist shit, it doesn't mean the movie is racist, because he probably wasn't portrayed as being right.
Last edited by Longes on Mon Jan 18, 2016 2:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
That and Bayonetta verse's fluff, since she belongs to the Umbra-witches, an all-female clan whose recruitment requirements are "must be born with spirit power and a vagina".Prak wrote:Or a canonical one, anyway. Because nothing is stopping me from playing Bayonetta and just believing she is a trans woman.
Well, nothing other than my lack of money, anyway.
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It was already funny, but the way her feat extend off the frame of the page just makes that comparison photo.
The U.S. isn't a democracy and if you think it is, you are a rube.DSMatticus wrote:Kaelik gonna kaelik. Whatcha gonna do?
That's libertarians for you - anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.
Ok, that's fair. I'm just not fond of the fact that the only indication of Erica's transgender nature is as part of an insulting joke. Longes sums it up right.Kaelik wrote:Look, I didn't play Catherine and neither did you, but there is a huge difference between having a character say something stupid and having the game say something stupid. As I recall, none of the characters, especially not fuckface's friends, are portrayed as good people, so if one of them said something offense it only means that an objectively terrible person said something horrible.Prak wrote:@Ogrebattle- Thanks for the examples. I talked about Erica (she... isn't what I'm looking for because you don't know until you see one specific ending and it's used to enable a sexist joke).
If I watch a movie and KKK guy says racist shit, it doesn't mean the movie is racist, because he probably wasn't portrayed as being right.
Unless the game literally says "you must be born with a vagina" I still choose to believe my version. Because there's a lot of gender fuckery in old magic folk lore.maglag wrote:That and Bayonetta verse's fluff, since she belongs to the Umbra-witches, an all-female clan whose recruitment requirements are "must be born with spirit power and a vagina".Prak wrote:Or a canonical one, anyway. Because nothing is stopping me from playing Bayonetta and just believing she is a trans woman.
Well, nothing other than my lack of money, anyway.
Also-
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.
Winnah wrote:No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.
FrankTrollman wrote:In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.
You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.