[Non-US] News That Makes You laugh/cry/neither...

Longes · Post by **Longes** » Sat Jan 16, 2016 9:57 pm

I'm willing to bet that those groups have existed before, but weren't very active. Now they have "an excuse" and a large number of non-natives to be dicks to.

Stahlseele · Post by **Stahlseele** » Sat Jan 16, 2016 10:27 pm

America did not become the non racist non sexist one just because all of europe is going that way as well.

hyzmarca · Post by **hyzmarca** » Sat Jan 16, 2016 11:58 pm

Stahlseele wrote:America did not become the non racist non sexist one just because all of europe is going that way as well.

Well, it's certainly a different type of racism. Americans conservatives are paranoid about potential terrorist plots, but even the most diehard anti-islamic republican is going to admit that the vast majority of Muslims aren't terrorists. They're just going to say that it's better to be safe than sorry.

And no one is insane enough to play the "they're after our wimmin" card. I mean, there's the governor of Maine, who is an idiot, but he was accusing black men of seduction, not rape. The whole thing were you accuse an entire race of being uncontrollable rapist hasn't flown lynching negroes went out of style.

And yet, when Americans point out how insane the "most immigrants are rapists" card is, we're called rape deniers. And these guys, bizarrely, at the same time as they're using feminist rhetoric against their detractors, use absurdly misogynistic memes against feminists.

I mean, dudes, make up your fucking minds. either your anti-rape, or you're pro-rape. You can't just flip-flop depending on who your railing against.

And there are groups in Germany, too, apparently.
http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/01 ... ss-europe/

Stahlseele · Post by **Stahlseele** » Sun Jan 17, 2016 12:50 am

Different kind of Racism?
Is america not that close to voting Trump for President any more?
The guy who allegedly sleeps with a copy of Mein Kampf next to his bed?

hyzmarca · Post by **hyzmarca** » Sun Jan 17, 2016 1:04 am

Stahlseele wrote: Is america not that close to voting Trump for President any more?
The guy who allegedly sleeps with a copy of Mein Kampf next to his bed?

Betting markets still place his odds at 4-1 against. Hillary is still the favorite, with 10-11 odds.

Stahlseele · Post by **Stahlseele** » Sun Jan 17, 2016 1:55 am

Ah. And i heard at work yesterday that Bernie Sanders is appearantly gaining ground. Will wonders never cease?

Koumei · Post by **Koumei** » Sun Jan 17, 2016 2:56 am

hyzmarca wrote:I don't know if I'm more dismayed by that, or by the fact that when some people point out that forming neo-Nazi groups to beat up immigrants is not a healthy response to what happened in Calogne, Conservative Europeans respond by posting memes about how feminists love Muslim cock.

Sadly, Germany has basically called for censorship on all discussion even of actual real problems if it could be construed as a racist thing. So when the Cologne thing happened, or the large amounts of rape in immigration centres (you can tell who sees a real problem and who is just racist here, because the racists don't care what happens to brown women), there was basically a blanket ban on talking about that. Suddenly every racist feels vindicated because "the government is silencing us with their secret agenda of ?????" and "I can only get the truth in my special facebook group of really racist people".

Red Archon · Post by **Red Archon** » Sun Jan 17, 2016 3:09 am

As a Finn: it's a huge embarrassment. And it's only going to get worse before we get rid of our pseudo-Libertarian government and start actually fixing the economy. Mark my words, there's going to be corpses.

Longes · Post by **Longes** » Sun Jan 17, 2016 8:51 am

"Who would little Aylan grow up to be? A butt grabber in Germany"

Also Austria has suspended the Shengen agreement to bring pasport and visa control on the borders with other Shengen countries.

ishy · Post by **ishy** » Sun Jan 17, 2016 12:12 pm

Koumei wrote:Sadly, Germany has basically called for censorship on all discussion even of actual real problems if it could be construed as a racist thing. So when the Cologne thing happened, or the large amounts of rape in immigration centres (you can tell who sees a real problem and who is just racist here, because the racists don't care what happens to brown women), there was basically a blanket ban on talking about that. Suddenly every racist feels vindicated because "the government is silencing us with their secret agenda of ?????" and "I can only get the truth in my special facebook group of really racist people".

It isn't just Germany.
This was all over the news 2 days ago

[url=http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-35285086 wrote:BBC[/url]]"Sometimes we do not really say how things are because we believe it may play into the hands of the Sweden Democrats," Mr Agren told Dagens Nyheter, referring to Sweden's right-wing anti-immigration party.

- Edit: wrong links

Stahlseele · Post by **Stahlseele** » Sun Jan 17, 2016 12:19 pm

By the way, that picture?
Remember the french satire magazine that got attacked and the whole world showed solidarity for them?
Charlie Hebdo? Yeah, that's their creation.
And they have been getting a whole lot of flak for it as well.

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Sun Jan 17, 2016 7:15 pm

And they should. Freedom of speech doesn't mean freedom from consequences or freedom to have people agree with you when you say horrible things. Living in a civilized society means that people can say horrible things and not have the government confiscate their property or have people shoot them in the face. But people can and should expect to be boycotted when they make jokes about how dead children were probably going to be rapists.

-Username17

Blade · Post by **Blade** » Mon Jan 18, 2016 11:22 am

Charlie Hebdo has always been about provocation.

In France, when everybody said "Je suis Charlie", many people who had actually read Charlie Hebdo before felt necessary to make the point that they supported freedom of expression but not necessarily that they condoned what they printed.

Starmaker · Post by **Starmaker** » Mon Jan 18, 2016 4:32 pm

I don't think the cartoonist is a garden-variety racist. Rather, the cartoon is supposed to satirize the people who deny entry to refugees and then proceed to cry over dead refugee children (and also, as a bonus, to provoke hypocritical racist moralists into revealing their hypocrisy). Charlie Hebdo isn't particularly concerned about appealing to the wide public and increasing their circulation numbers -- if they did, they'd print listicles and cat memes.

So their regular readers see the cartoon and say, "Yup, the anti-refugee people are hypocritical fuckers."

Meanwhile, outsiders see the cartoon and (hopefully) say, "Holy shit, the author is racist! I disapprove! We as a society disapprove! No matter the current troubles, we should welcome refugees, for the sake of the children!" And that's fine, too.

And some people say, "Baww, how offensive, these people deserve to get shot! Freedom of speech only applies to speech which doesn't offend me personally!"

Now, it can be argued that drawing a cartoon which is intended to insult people, especially brown people, is racist, or that it does more harm than good. But it's a different sort of racism than if McNaughton drew it.

Longes · Post by **Longes** » Mon Jan 18, 2016 6:02 pm

I have to disagree here. Here's another example of 'insightful' satire by Charlie Hebdo:

Le Pen. The candidate most like you!

hyzmarca · Post by **hyzmarca** » Tue Jan 19, 2016 12:17 am

Longes wrote:I have to disagree here. Here's another example of 'insightful' satire by Charlie Hebdo:

Le Pen. The candidate most like you!

To be fair, Le Pen is president of the National Front, so it's more like Charlie Hebdo is intentionally horribly offensive to everyone, rather than that they're anti-immigrant.

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Tue Jan 19, 2016 12:31 am

Yeah, Charlie Hebdo is sort of like a mix of Mad Magazine from my dad's youth (when they published a list of slang terms for various ethnicities. He only told me about the scottish one, Plaidass, but I'm sure there was worse) and South Park. They think that because they satirize everyone it's ok to print horrible racist caricatures of jews and arab muslims.

MGuy · Post by **MGuy** » Tue Jan 19, 2016 12:53 am

Prak wrote:Yeah, Charlie Hebdo is sort of like a mix of Mad Magazine from my dad's youth (when they published a list of slang terms for various ethnicities. He only told me about the scottish one, Plaidass, but I'm sure there was worse) and South Park. They think that because they satirize everyone it's ok to print horrible racist caricatures of jews and arab muslims.

Makes sense to me. That's how they get by isn't it? Make the most shockingly inappropriate thing they can so they can get people to look at their stuff.

ckafrica · Post by **ckafrica** » Tue Jan 19, 2016 5:27 am

I've always seen Hebdo's work as an ad absurdum view of everything. The suggestion that the kid would have become a sexual predator is about out racisting the racists, saying what is in their heads. I don't find Hebdo's work particularly funny but its pretty clear to me that they are playing on racist views rather than espousing racist views

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Tue Jan 19, 2016 5:58 am

This doesn't explain their extremely racist caricature depictions of arabs and jews.

Blade · Post by **Blade** » Tue Jan 19, 2016 11:14 am

Yeah it's not really clear what part is provocation, what part is satire and what part is racism (though probably dressed up as "I'm not racist but...").

As far as I'm concerned, I think that there are better ways to be provocative and better topics to tackle.

hyzmarca · Post by **hyzmarca** » Tue Jan 19, 2016 4:24 pm

Apparantly, everything about the 80s is comming back.

http://www.thelocal.de/20160119/evidenc ... r-20-years

The Red Army Faction robbed a money van.

Though, police think that this was a retirement plan, rather than an attempt to spark a communist revolution.

Occluded Sun · Post by **Occluded Sun** » Tue Jan 19, 2016 4:39 pm

Prak wrote:They think that because they satirize everyone it's ok to print horrible racist caricatures of jews and arab muslims.

Because everyone knows those groups are exempt from being visually insulted, while all other insulting images of ethnics groups are A-ok.

What you just did is worse than what they did. Immeasurably so.

virgil · Post by **virgil** » Tue Jan 19, 2016 4:53 pm

Occluded Sun wrote:What you just did is worse than what they did. Immeasurably so.

Are you sure it's immeasurable and you're not just bad at math?

DSMatticus · Post by **DSMatticus** » Tue Jan 19, 2016 5:25 pm

This exchange briefly gave me the idea for a sitcom featuring a sassy Jeffrey Dahmer and his straight man roommate Greg (not straight as in heterosexual, straight as in the trope), but then I realized that's basically Llamas with Hats.

"Jeeeffrey! You can't just keep murdering male prostitutes!"

"Oh, so it'd be okay if I murdered women? I'm disappointed in you, Greg. I may be a picky eater, but at least I'm not a sexist asshole."