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Post by angelfromanotherpin »

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Post by virgil »

It does feel like the more activist-oriented elements of Tumblr seem WAY more willing to tear down the ignorant (not my job to educate you), the legitimately atoning (someone apologizes and takes down problematic thing, and are still hounded over it), and the mentally vulnerable (anti-ableist until it generates something problematic). Meanwhile, they're comparatively passive around the aggressively racist/sexist/etc; the mild offenders get quite a bit of vitriol and harassment, and the people who make no fat chicks decals & literal pro-Nazi websites get mostly ignored.

Now, this could just be bias and ignorance; but it's my impression at the moment.
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Post by Kaelik »

To an extent it makes sense, in that telling nazis that nazism is bad at this point doesn't educate bystanders, who already know, and the actual nazis aren't going to change.

Where more marginal less clear issues you could theoretically convince ignorant bystanders or well meaning in general wrong in this particular offenders.

As to whether it works that way, fuck if I know.
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Post by Eikre »

Vanguards have a lot more success galvanizing sympathetic moderates than turning entrenched enemies.

For Lenin, that means you send educated rabble-rousers to factories and gin up enough malcontent that the workers become interested in doing physical battle with the Bourgeois.

For Tumblr, that means you find somebody who will entertain your ideas enough that they'll meekly back down in the face of your sanctimony instead of just calling you a [EDITED] and continuing to vote republican.
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Post by MGuy »

Eikre wrote:Vanguards have a lot more success galvanizing sympathetic moderates than turning entrenched enemies.

For Lenin, that means you send educated rabble-rousers to factories and gin up enough malcontent that the workers become interested in doing physical battle with the Bourgeois.

For Tumblr, that means you find somebody who will entertain your ideas enough that they'll meekly back down in the face of your sanctimony instead of just calling you a [EDITED] and continuing to vote republican.
I'll go out on a limb and say that I don't believe that tumblr is a good example to use when trying to turn moderates to one's side. I've heard many infamous stories of the "sjw" crowd attacking people who already agree with them and not in that teachable moment fashion.
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Post by DSMatticus »

In practice, tumblr is the boogie-man bigoted shitbags use to mask their anti-egalitarianism in centrist whining. That is a thing they would try do either way, but as far as talking points go 2015's "tumblr is fucking insane" is certainly a lot better cover than 2005's "I'm not racist, but..." And that's because tumblr really is kind of fucking insane. Click through some of the links in that article and look at the fanart that had people complaining.

Does anyone really think genderbent fanart is transphobic?

Is anyone really bothered by people shipping Eren X Levi?
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Post by Whipstitch »

It's also really hard to tell who the fuck is actually sincere these days. So much shit on tumblr is objectively stupid that I long ago lost any interest in trying separate the dumb accounts from the dummy accounts.
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Post by Count Arioch the 28th »

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Post by Stahlseele »

If non ISIS Muslims react like that to pictures that have fuck all to do with their religion aside from them not being allowed to eat pork, then i see no big difference between non ISIS muslims being unislamic and ISIS being unislamic to be honest . .
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Post by Pseudo Stupidity »

Wow, you misrepresented the shit out of this.

Even a skimming of the article (from a site that's aggressively conservative and/or anti-Islam) shows they aren't mad about using a pig with ISIS, they're mad they wrote words from the creed they use to declare their belief in god on the pig. Islamic people protesting this is similar to Christians protesting a comic where the Nicene creed is written on two dicks touching. Both protests are stupid because who cares it's a fucking cartoon, and a political cartoon at that, but I totally get where the protests would come from.

Acting like Islamic people are mad that ISIS is getting represented as unislamic is stupid as fuck, that isn't what's happening here. What the fuck is wrong with you; are you too goddamn stupid to read the article you posted? You're every single idiot on Facebook who reads a title and then shares it without reading the body.

Edit for context: Apparently ISIS uses words from the creed that Muslims use to show their belief in god on their ugly-ass flag. Whoever drew the cartoon either didn't care or didn't know and used it on the pig instead of writing Death to the West or something else appropriately ISIS-like to show the piggy bank was ISIS.
Last edited by Pseudo Stupidity on Tue Dec 01, 2015 6:57 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by Longes »

Wow, you misrepresented the shit out of this.
Other than the "Indian" bit, this is literally the headline.
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Post by Pseudo Stupidity »

Longes wrote:
Wow, you misrepresented the shit out of this.
Other than the "Indian" bit, this is literally the headline.
Yes, a headline that, had you read even 6 sentences deep into the article, you'd have known was click-bait bullshit. You misrepresented the story as surely as that website (which seriously has a story titled "'tolerant' people force literature festival organizer to quit as they didn't like his views" in its navigation) did. Read shit before you post it, don't be a dumbass.
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Post by erik »

What the fuck are you on about Pseudo? You are twisting things up with your comparisons far more than th article did.

The headline seemed in line with the article. Some muslims are pissed about a cartoon because some of their words are speshul and because an icon was misinterpreted. News at 8:00!
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Post by Occluded Sun »

That strategy has worked for them before.
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Post by Pseudo Stupidity »

erik wrote:What the fuck are you on about Pseudo? You are twisting things up with your comparisons far more than th article did.

The headline seemed in line with the article. Some muslims are pissed about a cartoon because some of their words are speshul and because an icon was misinterpreted. News at 8:00!
1. The headline doesn't say what you think it says at all. Read the fucking headline. It's "Newspaper draws piggy bank to show ISIS funding, Muslim groups attack it as pig is “unislamic."" What do you get when you read that headline? That Muslim groups are angry because ISIS was represented by a pig, which is unislamic. So Muslim groups are angry that ISIS was represented by something unislamic. That's what the headline says. If you think it says anything different you suck at reading.

A better headline for the story would be "Religious people complain about fucking cartoon, are oversensitive" or "Mulims groups protest cartoon showing religious text being written on pig" or "Muslim groups protest cartoon showing ISIS funding, call it blasphemous." It wouldn't be hard to write a proper headline for the story, but saying Muslims are defending ISIS "islamicness" is much more click-baity and hateful.

2. My comparison is about special words being put on a thing the special words are against. How is my comparison wrong? Obviously two dicks touching is obscene because it's porn, but do I have to explain hyperbole to you?


The article's headline makes it sound like Muslims are mad about ISIS being portrayed as unislamic when that is obviously not what they're mad about. That's what bothers me. Misrepresenting a story based on its fucking headline is a very stupid thing to do. Longes saw something he thought was mildly interesting, didn't read it, and shared it. That is stupid. If he did read it and decided to share it with that link text he's either dense as fuck or probably anti-Muslim (since that headline paints Muslims pretty unfavorably).
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Post by erik »

In reverse order...

I considered your example of the double dick creed is weak because it misses that the piggybank icon itself is a benign, non-obscene icon unless you look real hard for it and try to make a stupid connection. Slapping two dicks in someone's face lacks that subtlety, though I grant that I still wouldn't be offended even if I were Christian.
PseudoStupidity wrote:The headline doesn't say what you think it says at all. Read the fucking headline.
Ho-kay.
"Newspaper draws piggy bank to show ISIS funding, Muslim groups attack it as pig is “unislamic”"

Now true/ or false. The people were protesting because the icon which was used to represent funding of ISIS and was alleged as something unislamic to the point of being blasphemous? True, right? That is exactly what happened and exactly what the headline said. There is more context, sure, but the headline is not wrong. The protesters are attacking because of the pig being unislamic.
PseudoStupidity wrote:The article's headline makes it sound like Muslims are mad about ISIS being portrayed as unislamic when that is obviously not what they're mad about.
Noooope.

:educate:
Muslim groups attack it as pig is “unislamic”
The pig. Not ISIS. The pig. I don't know how you got mislead. The PIG.
The headline is way more informative and less misleading than your translation, since your interpretation leaves out the part where they are incensed that a piggybank is in the shape of a pig. A part that is explained better by the headline.

Moving on a bit.

It's not the newspaper's fault that ISIS uses words as their symbol that aren't allowed to be printed this way or that. I think the protesters are fucking hypocrites who should be protesting ISIS for using that text as their logo if they want to be honest in their complaints of blasphemy, but that's me.
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Post by Kaelik »

erik wrote:It's not the newspaper's fault that ISIS uses words as their symbol that aren't allowed to be printed this way or that. I think the protesters are fucking hypocrites who should be protesting ISIS for using that text as their logo if they want to be honest in their complaints of blasphemy, but that's me.
Difficult since ISIS is doing the best possible impression of the Prophet Muhammad you can in modern times. Only raping 13 year old girls in forced marriages, not 9, but you know, still got that killing and destroying the historical artifacts of other cultures thing down.
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Post by name_here »

Actually, most Islamic groups regularly denounce ISIS as blasphemers and apostates and call for their annihilation whenever they make the news. Or just say that they're bad people who do not follow the tenets of Islam in the case of Islamic groups that don't go in for the whole "kill the apostates" thing. Iran's been heavily involved in ground combat against them.
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Post by Kaelik »

name_here wrote:Actually, most Islamic groups regularly denounce ISIS as blasphemers and apostates and call for their annihilation whenever they make the news. Or just say that they're bad people who do not follow the tenets of Islam in the case of Islamic groups that don't go in for the whole "kill the apostates" thing. Iran's been heavily involved in ground combat against them.
And all those protests ring extremely hollow.
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Post by Pseudo Stupidity »

erik wrote: Now true/ or false. The people were protesting because the icon which was used to represent funding of ISIS and was alleged as something unislamic to the point of being blasphemous? True, right? That is exactly what happened and exactly what the headline said. There is more context, sure, but the headline is not wrong. The protesters are attacking because of the pig being unislamic.
The protesters are protesting because the pig has part of an Islamic creed on it, not because a pig is being used to represent ISIS. That is beyond obvious from reading the text. The headline is deliberately misleading people to make it sound like the protests have something to do with ISIS (it's about the pig with the creed, not that a pig is being used to represent ISIS). The cartoon is about ISIS, the protest is not.

erik wrote:It's not the newspaper's fault that ISIS uses words as their symbol that aren't allowed to be printed this way or that. I think the protesters are fucking hypocrites who should be protesting ISIS for using that text as their logo if they want to be honest in their complaints of blasphemy, but that's me.
Muslims hate ISIS for a lot of reasons, one of them being that ISIS is more angry at people who aren't Muslim enough (or not the right flavor of Muslim) than they are at non-Muslims. They think all the Muslims who are doing it wrong are shaming god and all that. They kill waaaaay more Muslims than they do anyone else.

Don't get me wrong, the protests are fucking stupid, but protesting ISIS would be even more stupid because ISIS doesn't care. The protesters aren't evil or even doing something bad, they're just religious people being way too sensitive. People can voice their stupid opinions about cartoons, we on the Internet should be well aware of this.
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If you wanted to participate in a conversation, you've lost that right. You are a non-human now. You are over and cancelled. No concern of yours can ever matter to any member of the human race ever again.
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Post by name_here »

Kaelik wrote:
name_here wrote:Actually, most Islamic groups regularly denounce ISIS as blasphemers and apostates and call for their annihilation whenever they make the news. Or just say that they're bad people who do not follow the tenets of Islam in the case of Islamic groups that don't go in for the whole "kill the apostates" thing. Iran's been heavily involved in ground combat against them.
And all those protests ring extremely hollow.
No, seriously, the leader of ISIS declared that he was the rightful ruler of all Muslims and basically every other Islamic group on the planet has taken that extremely badly. The Iraqi Shi'a militias rallied after Iraq's army collapsed and have been steadily driving ISIS west. The Kurdish peshmerga seized a strategically important city in northern Iraq shortly after the Paris attacks. Iran has sent advisers and weaponry to assist their opponents in both Syria and Iraq, with multiple senior officers killed in action, and is believed to have secretly deployed regular army units. Saudi Arabia is coordinating the delivery of TOW missiles to other rebel groups in Syria. Hezbollah has deployed into Syria and Iraq in strength to fight them. Pakistan has designated them as a terrorist organization and criminalized expressing support for them. Nearby Islamic nations are participating in the international coalition against them. Other Islamic groups do not have intrinsic military forces and have merely been denouncing them at every opportunity and declaring that it is every Muslim's religious duty to oppose them and explicitly repudiating their interpretations of the Qur'an.

Seriously, people really hate ISIS. A lot. And it is not lip service.
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