[Kickstarter] Shinobigami

General questions, debates, and rants about RPGs

Moderator: Moderators

Post Reply
User avatar
silva
Duke
Posts: 2097
Joined: Tue Mar 26, 2013 12:11 am

[Kickstarter] Shinobigami

Post by silva »

So, I've just met this game which I heard is da bomb in japan right now and Im already wetting myself on the idea of playing it. Its basically Vampire except with Ninjas. The problem is that its in japanese and the english translation seems to be in oblivion.

Image


Here, some nitpicks I managed to snip. Character creation and clans, straight from here:
Ennui wrote:You then choose which of 6 ninja schools/clans you belong to. They are:
Shiritsu Otogi Gakuen: An elite school that is secretly training ninjas. They search for people's secrets. They excel in the art of war.

Haguremono: Runaways, ronin and other ninja groups that are too small to be counted as a major group. They fight for their own reasons. They excel in ninjutsu.

Hasuba Ningun: They are an ancient school that believes that they ought to try to unite all the schools, by using tools that emulate everyone's Ougi (final attack). They excel in "tool arts"/using tools.

Kurama Shinryu: This group is trying to stop the Shinobigami from being revived. They excel in the "body arts"/taijutsu.

Oni no Kettou: They are supernatural beings that have existed as part of society for thousands of years. They are trying to find a way to revive the Shinobigami for their own reasons. They excel in the Supernatural Arts.

Hirasa Kikan: They are a group of ninja that want to protect Japan at all costs. They excel at the "scheming arts".

Once you pick which one you want, you mark yourself off as a "Chuunin", the middle rank, where all PCs start off at. You get to choose 3+2 skills, 4 magics and 1 ougi. More on these as we get to them.

Next you choose your character's outward appearance; what does (s)he do when they're not ninja-ing about? Then you pick (or roll) a personality type from a chart of 6 possible types. Then its off to the exciting stuff.

Skills are printed on the character sheet as a sort of grid; the 6 ninja skill "types" each have 11 skills, and each ninja skill type is tied to a school. You choose 3 skills from your corresponding school, and then 2 from any other school you'd like. These are things like controlling water (tool arts) or cursing people (supernatural arts), and can be as mundane as "money making" (scheming) or can be as out there as "eye control" (supernatural arts), where you control anyone and everyone in your vision. These skills are pretty broad, too: if you are controlling water, you can use it as a weapon walk on water, take the water out of people, use it to teleport or really anything you can come up with within the situation.

You then choose 4 ninja magics (ninpo) that can be attack magic, using your skills to actually do "damage" during a fight scene, support magic, using skills to help in drama or fight scenes, or equipped magic that is always active.

Last you choose an Ougi, a super secret final waza. You get to choose from 1 of 6 effects, from a super powerful attack to a perfect defense that cuts any damage taken to 0. You then get to assign a new skill to it, anyone that you'd like, and those are your new super secret Ougi and skill. You can use them once a drama scene or once a round in combat and it will hit automatically, but if someone sees you use it, they can use a certain skill to see what you did, and from then on, they will be able to defend against it as usual. It's really important to keep it a secret. Did I mention keeping secrets? They're a big part of this game.

That's really about it. You can throw a character together really fast, and there are a lot of options and freedom that really let you make the character you imagine.

When you make a skill check, you roll 2d6 as usual. The target number, if you have the skill in question, is 5. However, if you're trying to see what skill someone just used for their Ougi (the skill used would be miteki) and you don't have it, you need to use the closest skill you have. If, for instance, you have kunoichi no jutsu/seduction, it's 2 squares away, so the target number is 7. You roll 2d6--if you pass, you've been able to seduce the answer out of the target, but if you fail, you've just tried to seduce someone to no avail.

More on the drama scenes and fighting scenes if people are interested.
Gameplay structuring, from here:
Each of these games share a number of features that form the basis for the Saikoro Fiction style of game. They include the use of handouts, the 3-phase scenario outline as well as the cycle and drama/battle scene system, (usually) 6 classes or character types, and most perceptibly, the 6×11 grid that dominates the character sheet that forms the basis for most resolutions. Click the following link to go to the Shinobigami download page to find links to character sheets (in Japanese).

http://www.bouken.jp/pd/sg/download.html

Handouts: Like most modern Japanese TRPGs, handouts are very important to facilitating play. Scenarios are almost always written in advance, with a certain balance of characters in mind. Unlike other game systems, though, handouts are more than simply an indicator of what sort of characters ought to be appearing in the scenario. This is most apparent in Shinobigami: the aim of a character and their Secret come in the form of handouts that serve as a crucial tool in the development of the story and also have important functions rules-wise as well.

3-Phases: Each scenario follows a basic outline: Introduction, Main and Climax Phases. The Introduction simply gets each character involved in the scenario. The Main Phase is where the meat of the action is; all investigation, preparation, meeting with NPCs, forming relationships, etc. occur during this phase. The main phase is usually timed to give the game a sense of urgency (i.e. no resting to regain all your magic after every battle, etc.). The Climax Phase is the final climactic battle that ends the scenario one way or another. This outline allows the game to proceed in a timely manner and still get each part of the scenario in during the gaming session.

Cycles and The Drama/Battle Scene Dynamic: Each game hurtles towards the Climax by using cycles: usually after 3 cycles the game is resolved with the Climax Phase. (With the exception of Hunter’s Moon) Each cycle is comprised of Scenes that are under the complete control of 1 player, 1 at a time. Once all players have had their turn directing a Scene, the cycle ends and the next begins. In Shinobigami and Magicalogia, a character’s Scene can be either a Drama or Battle scene, but not both.

The Grid: The most distinctive feature of Saikoro Fiction games is the use of a 6×11 grid. It is divided into 6 categories, which differ by game, and each category is filled with appropriate skills, talents, or other descriptive words. For example, the grid in Shinobigami has 6 categories of skills, such as “Body,” “Tools,” or “Supernatural,” which are filled with skills like “Running,” “Ballistics,” or “Curse,” respectively. Magicalogia has more abstract categories that represent magic types: the “Song” category has “story,” “love,” and “tears.”

The grid is utilized to settle all dice rolls in the game: basically each player starts the game by choosing 5 skills and circling them on the grid. Whenever a skill check is required, the grid is referreed to: if a character in Shinobigami has to pass a Hydromancy check and they have the skill circled, they need to roll 5 or higher on a roll of 2d6. If the same character must pass a Shuriken skill check (let’s assume that the character was attacked by someone throwing shuriken), then they check the grid; including the Gap in-between each category, Hydromancy is 2 squares away from Shuriken. For each square away, the target number of 5 is raised by 1. In order to be able to wash away the shuriken with a spray of water, the character will need to roll a 7 on a roll of 2d6. Rolls of natural 6s are criticals and Snake eyes are fumbles (usually). There are few to no stats in the way that a d20 game might have; instead everything is determined by rolling on the grid. It’s an elegant and interesting new way of making characters.

The system has some great new ideas for role-playing but also some flaws. Battle tends to take a long time, due to both attacker and defender rolling and adding numbers. I think that a lot of western gamers are put off by the scenario and handout style of play. I’ve found that players used to games like Dungeons and Dragons have a hard time adjusting to the narrative-heavy style of a game like Shinobigami.

On the other hand, Saikoro Fiction does a lot of things right. A single game can be run from start to finish within 4 hours and still be satisfying. Character creation is quick and intuitive. The games are simple enough to be played online via IRC or Skype. The concepts involved in playing are very easy for new players to pick up quickly. Each game uses the Saikoro Fiction engine in such a way that emphasizes the game’s theme: Shinobigami actually feels like you’re taking part in some badass ninja anime. The books are relatively cheap, too. At about $15 a pop, it’s easy to pick up a copy just to read the replay that comprises half the book.

Yeah, each book, including the supplements, is prefaced by a replay that fills more than half the book.
I hope the translation project is not lost and rise again soon. Ive found the idea of the game pretty cool.
Last edited by silva on Sat Nov 07, 2015 3:18 pm, edited 3 times in total.
The traditional playstyle is, above all else, the style of playing all games the same way, supported by the ambiguity and lack of procedure in the traditional game text. - Eero Tuovinen
User avatar
silva
Duke
Posts: 2097
Joined: Tue Mar 26, 2013 12:11 am

Post by silva »

The traditional playstyle is, above all else, the style of playing all games the same way, supported by the ambiguity and lack of procedure in the traditional game text. - Eero Tuovinen
Sakuya Izayoi
Knight
Posts: 395
Joined: Tue Nov 26, 2013 5:02 am

Post by Sakuya Izayoi »

My group loves Tenra Bansho Zero so they're likely to enjoy this.

Scenario play IS tricky for westerners, but doing a better job of translating the GM advice than TBZ would help there. Either that, or provide a big pile of prewritten ones like Maid.
User avatar
silva
Duke
Posts: 2097
Joined: Tue Mar 26, 2013 12:11 am

Post by silva »

@Sakuya,

Scene-based gameplay is something my group did in the past but in a total accidental way. It happened in our Marvel Heroic game, so I don't know if it is a natural fit for narrative games or what.

Anyway, the form that Shinobigami addresses it looks pretty innovative, as it explicitly makes scene-framing a mechanic for the PCs to reach for their objectives, and tie it with other mechanics (e.g: the infiltrator clan have a power that allows its members to infiltrate other PCs scenes that he wasn't invited to in the first place, and the double agent clan can subvert other PCs scenes by taking the role of scene-protagonist). These are cool ideas that I've never seen in other similar games of the type.

Do you have more knowledge about this kind of thing ? Is this commonplace in Japanese games ?
Last edited by silva on Thu Aug 13, 2015 12:51 pm, edited 2 times in total.
The traditional playstyle is, above all else, the style of playing all games the same way, supported by the ambiguity and lack of procedure in the traditional game text. - Eero Tuovinen
Sakuya Izayoi
Knight
Posts: 395
Joined: Tue Nov 26, 2013 5:02 am

Post by Sakuya Izayoi »

I can't speak for the Japanese TTRPG scene, but Tenra Bansho Zero works in a similar way. You have a 3 act scenario structure, broken into scenes, and "scene" and "act" and "intermission" are all mechanically distinct. You have a metagame currency called "aiki", which allows you, among many things, to enter a scene which did not originally include your character, and come up for the justification for it retroactively. TBZ is already translated if that sort of thing interests you.

EDIT: This sells me on the game pretty well http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?663 ... mpressions
Last edited by Sakuya Izayoi on Fri Aug 14, 2015 2:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
ennui
NPC
Posts: 3
Joined: Tue Sep 29, 2015 1:55 am
Contact:

Post by ennui »

Hey guys, now that Ryuutama is shipping we're getting ready to get Shinobigami out to the world, too. We'll be running the Kickstarter for the translation starting the first week in November, so please check it out.

in the meantime, please let me know if you have any questions about the game!
User avatar
Maxus
Overlord
Posts: 7645
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

Post by Maxus »

ennui wrote:Hey guys, now that Ryuutama is shipping we're getting ready to get Shinobigami out to the world, too. We'll be running the Kickstarter for the translation starting the first week in November, so please check it out.

in the meantime, please let me know if you have any questions about the game!
Hold up. Zoom in.
ennui wrote:Hey guys, now that Ryuutama is shipping we're getting ready to get Shinobigami out to the world, too. We'll be running the Kickstarter for the translation starting the first week in November, so please check
Zoom in.
ennui wrote:Hey guys, now that Ryuutama is shipping we're getting ready to get Shinobigami out to the world, too. !
More
ennui wrote:
Ugh. That username is so numbing. Now I'm going to go smoke clove cigarettes and talk Nietzsche. Also, I need to paint my hair black.
He jumps like a damned dragoon, and charges into battle fighting rather insane monsters with little more than his bare hands and rather nasty spell effects conjured up solely through knowledge and the local plantlife. He unerringly knows where his goal lies, he breathes underwater and is untroubled by space travel, seems to have no limits to his actual endurance and favors killing his enemies by driving both boots square into their skull. His agility is unmatched, and his strength legendary, able to fling about a turtle shell big enough to contain a man with enough force to barrel down a near endless path of unfortunates.

--The horror of Mario

Zak S, Zak Smith, Dndwithpornstars, Zak Sabbath. He is a terrible person and a hack at writing and art. His cultural contributions are less than Justin Bieber's, and he's a shitmuffin. Go go gadget Googlebomb!
Koumei
Serious Badass
Posts: 13877
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm
Location: South Ausfailia

Post by Koumei »

It's only within the last six months that I learned ennui is pronounced "on-wee" and not "en-noo-wi".
Count Arioch the 28th wrote:There is NOTHING better than lesbians. Lesbians make everything better.
Almaz
Knight
Posts: 411
Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2011 9:55 pm

Post by Almaz »

Koumei wrote:It's only within the last six months that I learned ennui is pronounced "on-wee" and not "en-noo-wi".
WHAT? YOU--

IT'S PRONOUNCED THAT WAY?!

MY LIFE HAS BEEN A LIE!
Zaranthan
Knight-Baron
Posts: 628
Joined: Tue May 29, 2012 3:08 pm

Post by Zaranthan »

Don't feel too bad about it. My mom speaks French and she taught me a bunch of it. French is almost as much bullshit as English.
DSMatticus
King
Posts: 5271
Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2011 5:32 am

Post by DSMatticus »

Zaranthan wrote:Don't feel too bad about it. My mom speaks French and she taught me a bunch of it. French is almost as much bullshit as English.
Almost?
User avatar
Maxus
Overlord
Posts: 7645
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

Post by Maxus »

Almaz wrote:
Koumei wrote:It's only within the last six months that I learned ennui is pronounced "on-wee" and not "en-noo-wi".
WHAT? YOU--

IT'S PRONOUNCED THAT WAY?!

MY LIFE HAS BEEN A LIE!
I though it was "en-wee" for the longest time. Or, because I have a Southern accent and don't maintain the distinction between "in" and "en" and "wi" and "wee", in that neighborhood.
He jumps like a damned dragoon, and charges into battle fighting rather insane monsters with little more than his bare hands and rather nasty spell effects conjured up solely through knowledge and the local plantlife. He unerringly knows where his goal lies, he breathes underwater and is untroubled by space travel, seems to have no limits to his actual endurance and favors killing his enemies by driving both boots square into their skull. His agility is unmatched, and his strength legendary, able to fling about a turtle shell big enough to contain a man with enough force to barrel down a near endless path of unfortunates.

--The horror of Mario

Zak S, Zak Smith, Dndwithpornstars, Zak Sabbath. He is a terrible person and a hack at writing and art. His cultural contributions are less than Justin Bieber's, and he's a shitmuffin. Go go gadget Googlebomb!
User avatar
silva
Duke
Posts: 2097
Joined: Tue Mar 26, 2013 12:11 am

Post by silva »

ennui wrote:Hey guys, now that Ryuutama is shipping we're getting ready to get Shinobigami out to the world, too. We'll be running the Kickstarter for the translation starting the first week in November, so please check it out.

in the meantime, please let me know if you have any questions about the game!
That's awesome news. Thanks for the heads up.

Are you incorporating the latest rules updates in the english edition ? And, are you planning to translate the feudal Japan supplement too ?
The traditional playstyle is, above all else, the style of playing all games the same way, supported by the ambiguity and lack of procedure in the traditional game text. - Eero Tuovinen
ennui
NPC
Posts: 3
Joined: Tue Sep 29, 2015 1:55 am
Contact:

Post by ennui »

silva wrote:
ennui wrote:Hey guys, now that Ryuutama is shipping we're getting ready to get Shinobigami out to the world, too. We'll be running the Kickstarter for the translation starting the first week in November, so please check it out.

in the meantime, please let me know if you have any questions about the game!
That's awesome news. Thanks for the heads up.

Are you incorporating the latest rules updates in the english edition ? And, are you planning to translate the feudal Japan supplement too ?
Oh man, I thought I had this set to notify me when there was a reply, sorry!

Yes, we'll be incorporating the latest edition.

We don't have any immediate plans on doing the Feudal Japan supplement or the Heian era supplement that just came out, but with enough interest, we may. We're starting with the first two books for now, which should be more than enough for a while. (there is never enough Shinobigami)
Mask_De_H
Duke
Posts: 1995
Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2009 7:17 pm

Post by Mask_De_H »

You could always translate the basic setting parts of the historical fiction supplements, then save the full books for later projects/stretch goals.
FrankTrollman wrote: Halfling women, as I'm sure you are aware, combine all the "fun" parts of pedophilia without any of the disturbing, illegal, or immoral parts.
K wrote:That being said, the usefulness of airships for society is still transporting cargo because it's an option that doesn't require a powerful wizard to show up for work on time instead of blowing the day in his harem of extraplanar sex demons/angels.
Chamomile wrote: See, it's because K's belief in leaving generation of individual monsters to GMs makes him Chaotic, whereas Frank's belief in the easier usability of monsters pre-generated by game designers makes him Lawful, and clearly these philosophies are so irreconcilable as to be best represented as fundamentally opposed metaphysical forces.
Whipstitch wrote:You're on a mad quest, dude. I'd sooner bet on Zeus getting bored and letting Sisyphus put down the fucking rock.
User avatar
silva
Duke
Posts: 2097
Joined: Tue Mar 26, 2013 12:11 am

Post by silva »

The traditional playstyle is, above all else, the style of playing all games the same way, supported by the ambiguity and lack of procedure in the traditional game text. - Eero Tuovinen
User avatar
silva
Duke
Posts: 2097
Joined: Tue Mar 26, 2013 12:11 am

Post by silva »

Aaaaand its done.

http://shinobigami.com/

Kickstarter opens in a week or two.
The traditional playstyle is, above all else, the style of playing all games the same way, supported by the ambiguity and lack of procedure in the traditional game text. - Eero Tuovinen
User avatar
silva
Duke
Posts: 2097
Joined: Tue Mar 26, 2013 12:11 am

Post by silva »

The traditional playstyle is, above all else, the style of playing all games the same way, supported by the ambiguity and lack of procedure in the traditional game text. - Eero Tuovinen
ennui
NPC
Posts: 3
Joined: Tue Sep 29, 2015 1:55 am
Contact:

Post by ennui »

Thanks for your support guys!

I thought about translating the fluff part of the historical supplements and leaving out the crunch... but at that point you might as well find a history book that grabs you. All of the fictional elements are tied pretty heavily into the mechanics. Depending on demand the other books may yet come out...
User avatar
AndreiChekov
Knight-Baron
Posts: 523
Joined: Fri Aug 17, 2012 12:54 pm
Location: an AA meeting. Or Caemlyn.

Post by AndreiChekov »

ennui wrote:Thanks for your support guys!

I thought about translating the fluff part of the historical supplements and leaving out the crunch... but at that point you might as well find a history book that grabs you. All of the fictional elements are tied pretty heavily into the mechanics. Depending on demand the other books may yet come out...
Yeah, just translate the whole thing, or don't translate it. Giving us bits and pieces won't make anyone want to play it.
Peace favour your sword.

I only play 3.x
User avatar
silva
Duke
Posts: 2097
Joined: Tue Mar 26, 2013 12:11 am

Post by silva »

A little update explaining the "wheel of hate" between clans. Funny how this is looking more and more like a Vampire the Masquerade's wild hyperactive younger brother. :mrgreen:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/di ... ts/1413551

"The Six Clans of the World of Shadows

Image

Hi everyone, Matt here. I'll be presenting a series of articles showing off the clans and all the cool options you'll have when creating your character. For now, I'll be sticking to the first book, which means that I'll get into the subclans later on.

First, I want to talk about the 6 clans in general. Over the hundreds (thousands?) of years since the First Ninja, groups of ninjas have been fighting for control over the world of shadows. In the warring states period, when Oda Nobunaga marched across Japan and the Tokugawa shogunate first took power, 12 distinct clans fought amongst each other. As time passed, some of these clans were absorbed or combined into larger clans while others were wiped out. Eventually, we were left with the 6 feuding clans we are familiar with today.

Image

Each clan has a specific goal. Each clan also has a clan that it is hostile to, usually as a direct or indirect result of that goal. For example, the Kurama Shin Clan is trying to prevent the resurrect the Shinobigami, which means that they must hunt down the Bloodline of Oni. This leads to something I call "the wheel of hate," as seen above. Everybody in the World of Shadows is hunting someone, and are being hunted in turn.

It is highly recommended that all players in a session choose different clans for their characters. Since characters earn XP for working towards their clan goals, characters start the game loaded with conflict and tension. What will you do if you end up feeling loyal to a rival clan? Do you follow your heart, or your clan's rules? This is what makes real ninja drama!

In following updates I'll talk about each of these clans, the kinds of characters that may fill their ranks, and the cool special abilities that each clan has access to. Then, maybe I'll spill some of the secrets of the Shinobigami...

Thank you again for your support!"
Last edited by silva on Sat Nov 14, 2015 1:52 pm, edited 3 times in total.
The traditional playstyle is, above all else, the style of playing all games the same way, supported by the ambiguity and lack of procedure in the traditional game text. - Eero Tuovinen
User avatar
Longes
Prince
Posts: 2867
Joined: Mon Nov 04, 2013 4:02 pm

Post by Longes »

I can't help but notice that two of the clans share the goal of "Learn what the other clans are all about" and the Stealth clan's goal is "hide so no one bothers you". Which is a shitty goal which shouldn't be in the game. Also what the hell do those one-sided rivalries mean? Does the Ninja Army even know that Lost Ones hate them?
User avatar
TOZ
Duke
Posts: 1159
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2008 3:19 pm

Post by TOZ »

I threw in for the PDF. Might be a nice read.
Post Reply