Qudditch is dumb. Can you do better?

[Almaz]

Aztecs had some kind of game involving hard rubber balls, hoops, and the sacrifice of one of the teams to the gods at the end. I don't know if we've really learned anything more about it since I was a kid and first heard about our hazy knowledge of this thing.

Yes, you score points by getting the ball through a hoop, serving it back and forth kinda over the court. The blood sacrifice thing was not standard. There were plenty of events that just were a friendly ballgame. The blood sacrifice was more like the equivalent of the World Cup, a really high profile match conducted more for ritualistic purposes than anything else, where everyone got really screwed up on drugs while watching.

The sport has a modern incarnation called "ulama." The rules are similar, but notably are far more standardized.

In a random digression: The Aztec access to drugs and practice of blood sacrifice actually made them have fairly advanced medical care for most premodern societies, because they could do surgery with sharp obsidian knives and had anaesthetic. And now I'm imagining a Mexica equivalent to MASH. "Flower wars are Mictlan."

[Ghremdal]

I never played it, but isin't Magic the Gathering basically THE wizard sport?

You are a mage, you summon creatures and sling spells in a arena against another mage who does the same shit.

[Prak]

Yeah, pretty much. I mean, there's no arena, but yes, broadly speaking.

(spoiled for pedantry)

In Magic the Gathering, the players represent highly powerful spellcasters known as Planeswalkers. As they travel the planes, which they can do naturally, they make connections to locations to draw mana from, and creatures so they can later summon them. They also will run into other planeswalkers, who might help them, or might want to club them over the head and take their stuff. Magic the Gathering is basically two or more planeswalkers squabbling in the wilderness with summoned creatures)

[Blasted]

For my attempt I shall use an alternative set of assumptions.
First, it's set in the HP universe and should use the magic available to differentiate itself from 'normal' sports.
Second, it shouldn't be a case of best person at wizarding wins. We already have duels for that and one of the plot points of quidditch is that the amount of magic skill required is minimal.
Thirdly, the modern version should have a time limit, but for historical purposes there should be an untimed variant (possibly the original).
Finally it should be reasonably analogous to modern sport for the ease of the audience (as in Rowling's readers)

I would like a team sport with several different positions and relative actions. Two attacking players, two defending players and a special snowflake position for Mary Sues which the game tends to revolve around.

Broomsticks work well with this set of assumptions because magic is required, but the necessary magical ability is minimal. Any other magical item would work in its place, where the effect cannot be easily replaced without magic.

But every time work on an idea it ends up much like quidditch. Football, but on broomsticks.

[Kaelik]

Time Turner Wars.

Each party consists of 5 people, you can have as many teams playing as you want in a single game. Everyone gets a time turner. First person to cause all the other teams to have zero time turners wins. If anyone on a team ceases to exist (the team is reduced to four members) that team wins.

[maglag]

Time Turner Wars.

Each party consists of 5 people, you can have as many teams playing as you want in a single game. Everyone gets a time turner. First person to cause all the other teams to have zero time turners wins. If anyone on a team ceases to exist (the team is reduced to four members) that team wins.

Interesting, but how would you then organize sponsored events when the audience won't get to see any of the action?

[PhoneLobster]

For my attempt I shall use an alternative set of assumptions.... should use the magic available to differentiate itself from 'normal' sports.

Why not just throw that out and have the differentiation just being that the participants are all long bearded old fumbling wizards in hugely impractical floor length robes.

Personally I'd be happy enough in say an RPG if I was at wizard school and there were just a bunch of Dumbledore's off in the background playing otherwise regular non-magical soccer or judo or tennis and tripping up on their robes and mumbling about conspiracies.

Then we could have a bit of a laugh at them and get on with the actual game instead of the game within the game.

And anyway, fuck it, we have awesome powers in the real world and we ban basically ALL of them from sports. I mean we ban minor chemical performance enhancement buffs and potentially dangerous tackling techniques, if we treated sports with the attitude consistent with the ones imagined for fantasy wizard world sports we'd be playing tennis with tanks, soccer with hand grenades and flame throwers, and golf with stealth bombers.

[Prak]

Well, whether it's played or not, Magic School RPG needs some mention of what the Magic Sport is. Presumably some players will care, so it helps if there are rules. I'm perfectly happy playing Unseen University and talking about the faculty playing rugby and never bothering with it, but someone might want to play.

I'll point out that the one idea I had was basically "dungeoncrawling minigolf" and so pretty bare bones n taking focus away from the game.

[Nebuchadnezzar]

(I know something similar has been in genre fiction, but can't remember where, but would love to find out. Also, even though I'm using 3.5 terms as shorthand I'd never want to play it in that system.)

Gravlag: Gravity-manipulating Capture the Flag with frequent chain fights

The Field: A 30m diameter cylinder 210m tall, surrounded by a 10m thick feather fall effect. Within are 50+ platforms of various size, distributed evenly throughout, and anchored in place by Immovable Rods accessible to the players.
Parallel to the cylinder's base, and 105m up are three floating spheres, each 10 m apart. The plane described by the three floating orbs denotes a permanent Reverse Gravity effect affecting the arena.
Flags are placed on central platforms anchored by inaccessible Immovable Rods at 5m and 205m.

The Players: 5/side, with each player equipped with two Immovable rods mounted on wristbands with retractable 5m tethers. The rods may be activated as a free action, and can be activated at less than full strength, so as to serve as a handbrake. The rods automatically disengage when the tether is extended past 4m, so a player may use theirs to jump.

Play: Players fling themselves off of their own flag's platform, plummeting before decelerating on the other side of the RG field. At any point the players may slow or stop their movement, with further upward movement necessitating acrobatically moving from platform to rod.
The orbs describing the RG field can each be manipulated in a manner similar to that of a Sphere of Annilihation. Control of each orb can only be established from <5m away, but can be maintained from up to 20m away.
Capturing the other team's flag and returning to their own base scores a point.
Attacking the opposing team with rods or falling platforms is highly encouraged, such as to disarm a falling opponent such that they end up in the Feather Fall field, or to disrupt the control of a Gravity Orb.
Win conditions are either first to 15 points for shorter glames, highest score after two 15 minutes halves for longer ones, or moving the RG field past the opposing team's flag platform for any duration.

[maglag]

And anyway, fuck it, we have awesome powers in the real world and we ban basically ALL of them from sports. I mean we ban minor chemical performance enhancement buffs and potentially dangerous tackling techniques, if we treated sports with the attitude consistent with the ones imagined for fantasy wizard world sports we'd be playing tennis with tanks, soccer with hand grenades and flame throwers, and golf with stealth bombers.

Stealth bombers are the kinda stuff that can bankrupt smaller countries. Kinda hard to organize an international sport based on that.

However, in the real world we do have competitions with super fancy cars and boats. Still limited to either rich people or people with rich sponsors. But there are already big sports based on our super tech.

Not to mention the whole recent e-sport scene. There's your tanks and grenades and flame throwers. Except the players may actually survive to the next round.

[PhoneLobster]

However, in the real world we do have competitions with super fancy cars and boats.

Which for the most part are still heavily restricted, in constrictive, traditional sometimes almost ceremonial ways in an attempt to prevent major technological advantages to specific teams or dramatic changes to the nature of the "sport". Just try telling a "fancy car sport" team that they have unrestricted access to whatever technology they want. They'll tell you that they have essentially arbitrary restrictions on all sorts of technical limitations. They will also tell you THEY DON'T MOUNT FLAME THROWERS AND TANK CANNONS ON THEIR CARS.

Not to mention the whole recent e-sport scene. There's your tanks and grenades and flame throwers. Except the players may actually survive to the next round.

At best the fictional equivalent of that basically amounts to that stupid hologram chess thing in Star Wars. Simulated games on image projecting devices are not sports using tanks, grenades and flame throwers but with magical player survival and making that mistake is downright crazy. I mean what, do you think that chess is just like being stabbed in the face by a knight mounted on horse back but you get to survive and play again? Because that's what you are saying.

[Omegonthesane]

PL, are you implying that safety procs in a magical setting aren't allowed to consist of "use magic to return dead players from death, regrow limbs, etc"?

I mean, sure, the various magical sports will have some set of arbitrary restrictions appropriate to that sport, but demanding that they all be entirely mundane sports with safety procedures consistent with healing times of "measured in weeks to months, assuming you had first aid fast enough and nothing got infected" instead of "measured in healbot-seconds, maybe healbot-hours if you were literally dead on arrival" is a missed opportunity.

[PhoneLobster]

PL, are you implying that safety procs in a magical setting aren't allowed to consist of "use magic to return dead players from death, regrow limbs, etc"?

Well, I don't particularly care, I mean I'm engaging in a realism/fluff argument here and "realistic" representations of fantasy sports really aren't required.

All the same there is no reason you wouldn't have fantasy kingdoms banning any sport that had a severe risk of competitors requiring resurrection spells and regrown limbs each match, even while providing those services for freak table tennis accidents.

Ask yourself, if the real world had regrow limbs equivalent tech tomorrow does that mean they would just give hockey players chainsaws?

I mean sure, you can go create a game with chainsaw hockey in with or without limb regrowth services included for the players/victims. But you definitely as hell can just NOT do that and call your setting perfectly rational and not especially diminished.

[name_here]

Or, you know, the Nanoha ViVid solution of forcefields.

[maglag]

However, in the real world we do have competitions with super fancy cars and boats.

Which for the most part are still heavily restricted, in constrictive, traditional sometimes almost ceremonial ways in an attempt to prevent major technological advantages to specific teams or dramatic changes to the nature of the "sport". Just try telling a "fancy car sport" team that they have unrestricted access to whatever technology they want. They'll tell you that they have essentially arbitrary restrictions on all sorts of technical limitations.

Even with those "limitations", the top racing cars/boats are still things we mundane dudes can only dream of owning and much better than anything we peasants can drive right now.

Plus it's a game. You need to set caps somewhere or it becomes an exercise on who can better cheese out the system.

They will also tell you THEY DON'T MOUNT FLAME THROWERS AND TANK CANNONS ON THEIR CARS.

The cars still explode now and then.

Also it's in everybody's best interest to keep the dead body count to a minimum.

Not to mention the whole recent e-sport scene. There's your tanks and grenades and flame throwers. Except the players may actually survive to the next round.

At best the fictional equivalent of that basically amounts to that stupid hologram chess thing in Star Wars. Simulated games on image projecting devices are not sports using tanks, grenades and flame throwers but with magical player survival and making that mistake is downright crazy. I mean what, do you think that chess is just like being stabbed in the face by a knight mounted on horse back but you get to survive and play again? Because that's what you are saying.

Nope. What I'm saying is that a computer allows me to simulate I'm a mage/warrior with different special abilities who doesn't die when he's killed in an arena filled with monsters and mystic shops (LoL/Dota) or commanding a space army force with tanks and psionics and power armored troops (Starcraft), and those aren't things you can really replicate with a simple tabletop system (unless you want to spend several hours per match and roll hundreds of dies, plus no animations). A computer allows you to proccess a crapload of background data pretty fast so the players can focus on playing and minimize cheating. Also the whole "play with other people across the world" aspect is a pretty nice addition.

I guess the wizard equivalent could be either astral plane duels or possession/mind control of animals/monsters/mundanes and making them fight for their amusement, leading to mages breeding and training battle pets... Magic pokemon!

[PhoneLobster]

and those aren't things you can really replicate with a simple tabletop system (unless you want to spend several hours per match and roll hundreds of dies, plus no animations). A computer allows you to proccess a crapload of background data pretty fast so the players can focus on playing and minimize cheating.

Yeah... no. DoTA and Starcraft are still heavily abstracted games they are NOT accurately realized simulation equivalents of receiving a fireball to the face and living to tell the tale and a suggestion that they are is batshit insane.

Even a VR headset game with motion controls where you threw fireballs at each other wouldn't be an accurate direct equivalent to actually throwing actual fireballs at real people and them surviving because wizards, that again, falls to real world guys shooting actual flame throwers at each other.

But despite the not especially extant VR option also not being what you think it is, it is a billion times closer than your actual examples, which are all just guy staring at a screen full of pretty little pictures while clicking a mouse to manipulate the abstracted behaviour of the pretty little pictures competitively.

[Prak]

In this thread, PL has maintained his party line-

[PhoneLobster]

In this thread, PL has maintained his party line-

Is it really that far out there that as an RPG forum we should be fairly firm on telling people that playing a game with wizards in isn't the same thing as being a wizard. Which is, you know, what Maglag is actually saying DoTA is.

Hell to be a fully responsible community we should probably suggest he seek professional help over the matter.

[Prak]

I really don't think he said anything of the sort. His point, so far as I could tell, was "we have pokemon and rts games. It's not really out there to think wizards would have some magic equivalent."

[PhoneLobster]

I really don't think he said anything of the sort. His point, so far as I could tell, was "we have pokemon and rts games. It's not really out there to think wizards would have some magic equivalent."

Did he suggest wizards would have a hand held gaming device with a pokemon game on it that had a highly abstracted children's game on it that didn't involve actual killing of actual living creatures? No.

Instead he demonstrated an inability to tell the difference between hypothetical people playing a highly abstracted harmless game about making animals fight and hypothetical people actually forcing animals and other people to actually murder each other for their entertainment.

[maglag]

Only phonelobster would consider that "equivalent" means "exactly the same". Also that "fight" means "MURDERKILLDEATH".

He's clearly suffering high hallucinations by now, as I at no part claimed that the duels would be until one side expires. I'll leave by now and hope that tommorrow he's less delirious.

I really don't think he said anything of the sort. His point, so far as I could tell, was "we have pokemon and rts games. It's not really out there to think wizards would have some magic equivalent."

See, sane people can understand just fine.

[name_here]

I would also point out that while we're big on sports safety now, that is by no means universal in human history. Jousting, Tournament Melees, Gladiator matches, and chariot races were all very popular and very dangerous, and the first three had significant participation by the upper classes.

[Prak]

Hell, we're not even all that big on sports safety now. Just look at football and cheerleading.

[PhoneLobster]

Only phonelobster would consider that "equivalent" means "exactly the same".

Look it up you moron. "Equal in value" top meaning on the list, it's synonym? "Equal". And none of the alternative meanings are helpful or relevant for your "it doesn't mean that" claim.

You are flat out saying that pokemon is equal to actually making animals murder each other. And at best with alternate meanings you are saying pokemon fulfills the same role as actually making animals murder each other, which is not any better at all for your claim that you are distinguishing fiction and reality with secret word meanings no one else knows.

If you just happen to be illiterate and don't know the meaning of the words you use that's fine. But don't be going on a "only phonelobster would interpret a word to have it's actual only meaning" bender.