Mages that Gather: An RPG that uses MTG cards

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Sigil
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Mages that Gather: An RPG that uses MTG cards

Post by Sigil »

So, I've been GMing a game of D&D using tabletop simulator, but even though all the players are familiar with the rules and genuinely like the game, it can be somewhat burdensome to prepare in the amount of time I have throughout the week, and frankly combat can take quite a bit of time to resolve. My players had also previously expressed interest in playing Magic the Gathering on game night sometime. So after a bit of brainstorming I decided to try and create a light RPG that would use Magic the Gathering cards as the resolution mechanic, so that you could play Magic Tea Party interspersed with some card playing as a resolution mechanic. This may be a stupid fucking idea, so I decided to run it by the folks on the den.

This is a first draft, but it's a good representation of what I want the final product to look like. It doesn't include all the races, classes, or effects that would be in a complete version, but I've included two samples in each case so that you can have an idea of what I'm going for.

Any suggestion on rules, balancing, terminology, or layout is welcome.

Mages that Gather: A Role Playing Game

Playing 'Mages that Gather: A Role Playing Game'
Mages that Gather: A Role Playing Game is an RPG played by using a modified version of the rules for the Magic the Gathering collectible card game, using actual Magic the Gathering cards as a resolution mechanic. In Mages that Gather players create both A hero, similar to their character in other RPGs, and a deck. Instead of playing against one another competitively, Mages that Gather is instead a cooperative game where the players, using their heroes, work together to defeat challenges set before them by another participant called the Deck Master.

Creating Your Hero
Heroes function much like creatures do in a traditional game of Magic the Gathering, they have a power, can participate as a creature in the combat phase as either an attacker or blocker, can be tapped, and can have abilities. Unlike creatures a hero does not have a toughness and instead sets the players starting life, and has a level instead of a mana cost. The first step to creating your hero is to choose its Species and Class.

Species and Class
All heroes start out with a power of 0, grant you 0 life, and have no abilities. The species and class of your hero determine its power and how much life it grants you, and may grant it abilities. Heroes gain a card type of the same name as both their species and class.

Species:
  • Dwarf: 2 Power, 4 Life. “1: Target spell or ability controlled by an opponent that would cause this hero to become tapped does not cause this hero to become tapped.”
  • Elf: 2 Power, 3 Life. “1T: Place a -1/+2 token on this hero. You may remove tokens generated by this ability from this hero any time you could cast an instant.”
  • Construct: 2 Power, 5 Life. "This hero is and artifact" and "XT: Counter target activated or triggered ability that targets this hero. X is equal to the converted mana cost of the source of the ability."
  • Gnome: 1 Power, 4 Life. “2: Target player reveals a random card from his or her hand.”
  • Goblin: 1 Power, 4 life. "XT: Discard a card from your hand, deal damage equal to its converted mana cost to yourself and twice that damage to target creature or player. X is equal to the converted mana cost of the card discarded."
  • Human: 2 Power, 5 life. "1T: Place a card from your hand onto the bottom of your library and draw a card."
  • Kithkin: 1 Power, 4 life. “2T: Tap target attacking creature.”
  • Kobold: 1 Power, 3 life. “XT: Prevent X damage that would be dealt to you.”
  • Ogre: 3 power, 6 life.
  • Orc: 1 Power, 5 Life. “1: Place a +1/-1 token on this card.”
  • Vedalkin: 2 Power, 5 Life. “1T: Look at the top card of your library, and place it back on top of your library face down.”
Class:
  • Archer: “XT: Deal X damage to target creature or player. X cannot be greater than your power.”
  • Artificer: “XT: Place an artifact card with a converted mana cost of X in your graveyard onto the bottom of your library.”
  • Assassin: “XT: Deal X damage to target tapped creature.”
  • Barbarian: +1 Power. “2: Gain First Strike until the end of this turn.”
  • Berserker: +1 Power. “Whenever this hero destroys a creature by attacking or blocking it gains a +1/+1 token.”
  • Cleric: +2 Life “XT: Place a +0/+X token on target creature. X cannot be greater than this hero’s level”
  • Coward: “As long as this hero is untapped all damage dealt to it is reduced by 1.”
  • Druid: +1 Life. “At the start of this match, the owner of this hero may search through his or her deck for a creature with a converted mana cost of X or less and place it into play under their control. X is equal to this hero’s level minus 1.”
  • Knight: +1 Power, +1 Life. “X: This hero gain protection from a color of its owner's choice until the end of this turn. X is equal this hero’s level minus 1.”
  • Pirate: “Prowess (Whenever you cast a non-creature spell, this hero gets +1/+1 until end of turn).
  • Rogue: “If this hero blocks a creature that is also blocked by another creature, it gains double strike until the end of the combat phase.”
  • Soldier: +2 Life. “First Strike”
  • Warrior: +1 power, +1 Life. "XT: Fight target creature that this hero could block. X is equal to the converted mana cost of the creature targeted."
  • Wizard: "1XT: Counter target instant, sorcery, or enchantment. X is equal to the converted mana cost of the spell targeted."

Level
All heroes have a level in addition to their Species and Class. A hero's level determines how much and what type of mana the hero has access to on its turn. A starting hero is level 3, and has three mana of the players choice (the color of each can be chosen individually). Every time a hero gains a level they gain another mana of the player's choice. At any time, a hero can use their mana to pay the cost of an ability or spell (including the abilities of creatures and other permanents under their control), but that mana is expended and may not be used again until the start of their next turn. Additionally, for each level your hero has you can choose to increase your heroes power by 1, or your starting life value by 2.

Gaining Levels
When you gain a level is completely arbitrary and is determined by your Deck Master. When you gain a level, you may completely rebuild your deck if so desired.


Building Your Deck
In addition to your having a hero, you also have a deck of magic the gathering cards, which must be built according to the following rules.
  • Your deck is built from a limited list of cards chosen by you called your "Cards Known"
  • Your Cards Known list consists of 30 cards plus an additional 5 cards per level.
  • Your Cards Known list may only contain up to 2 uncommon and 1 rare card per level.
  • Each copy of a card each count towards cards in your Cards Known.
  • You may not include more than two copies of a given card in your Cards Known.
  • You may not include artifacts, lands, or planeswalkers in your Cards Known.
  • At the start of a session of Mages that Gather you construct a deck of 30 cards from your Cards Known list.
  • At the start of each match of Mages that Gather, you may substitute cards in your library (but not your graveyard) with unused cards from your list of Cards Known (see "Playing Mages that Gather" for more information)
Additionally, the Deck Master will probably make (perfectly reasonable) restrictions on the sets of cards you can use to build your deck. I recommend whatever the current core set is and one set chosen by the Deck Master to represent the setting that the game takes place in.

Artifacts
When choosing your Cards Known you may not include any artifact cards, unlike other cards artifacts must be awarded or purchased. The Deck Master can award your hero with artifacts, or they can be purchased for a number of gold equal to the converted mana cost the artifact (an artifact with a converted mana cost of 0 still costs one gold). Artifacts awarded or purchased are placed into a sideboard, and may be included in your deck just like a card from your Cards Known. Unlike cards from your Cards Known, artifacts can be lost, any artifact in your graveyard or exiled at the end of a match are removed from your deck and from your sideboard and are gone forever. Deck Masters are encouraged to destroy artifacts occasionally, though not often enough to make their players irate.

Banned Cards
The Deck Master can arbitrarily ban cards from the game, and will ban any cards that are banned in competitive play if he's sane. I also recommend banning any cards that directly interact with maximum hand size. If your Deck Master is an asshole and bans shit just for fun, don't play this game with them and seriously reevaluate your friendship with them.


Playing Mages that Gather
Whenever a conflict arises while you're playing Magic Tea Party, you play a match of Mages that Gather to provide context for how it went. The players use their deck against a deck of the Deck Masters design, either representing a location, or built like a hero. A match of Mages that Gather is played like a game of Magic the Gathering, with the following exceptions.
  • Instead of each player starting with 20 life, they start with a number of life determined by their heroes class, species, and level.
  • When a player's life reaches 0, that player does not immediately lose the game. Instead their maximum hand size is decreased by 1, all tokens are removed from the hero, and the player is returned to its their starting life value.
  • If an effect would exile or destroy a hero, instead remove all tokens from the hero, decrease the controlling players maximum hand size by 1, and return the player to their starting life value.
  • If a player has a number of poison tokens on it equal to their heroes level or greater, reduce the player’s maximum hand size by 1, remove all tokens from their hero, and return the player to their starting life value.
  • If a player's hand size reaches 0 (or somehow less) they lose, and all permanents controlled by that player are sent to their graveyard.
  • Damage dealt to a hero is instead dealt to the controlling player.
  • If a hero is subject to an effect that would modify a creature's toughness the effect instead modifies the controlling player's current life.
  • Neither the players nor the GM lose if their library is reduced to 0 cards, progress play as normal but do not draw.
  • At the start of the match, before any cards have been drawn or played, each player may swap cards in his or her library with other cards from their Cards Known list on a one for one basis. Cards in the graveyard from previous matches may not be switched in this way.
  • At the start of the match each player draws a number of cards equal to their heroes level instead of the normal 7. The Deck Master likewise draws a number of cards equal to the level of the deck they are using.
  • At the start of the match each player and the Deck Master receives a number of "bonus turns" to play cards. These turns proceed like normal turns, except that the combat phase is skipped, and abilities and other effects that target an opponent, effect controlled by an opponent, or permanent controlled by an opponent have no effect.
  • Turn order is determined by rolling 1d20 and adding the level of your deck or hero, proceeding from highest to lowest. In the event of a tie, roll off between the tied participants.
  • An unblocked attack deals damage to the life of the hero of the player attacked.
  • Likewise, a hero that takes damage from blocking an attacking creature equal to that creature's power, and that damage dealt to its current life.
  • The match ends when all players have their hand size reduced to 0 or when the Deck Masters deck is defeated.
  • At the end of a match, do NOT shuffle your graveyard into your library, return all permanents still in play to their respective library and shuffle it.
  • Your graveyard is persistent between matches, as is any reduction in hand size. This remains in effect until your heroes have a chance to rest, in the narrative.
  • At the end of a match, place any cards that were exiled into the graveyards of their respective decks.
  • At the end of a match, remove any artifact cards from your library, and place them back into their sideboard.

Skills
Sometimes during the course of playing Mages that Gather, you’re going to want to resolve a conflict that isn’t worth playing a full match to resolve, when this occurs a skill check is usually called for. There are 15 skills, each of which is associated with one or two colors of mana and are listed below.
  • Athletics (RG) - Represents an attempt to run, climb, jump, or make some other sort of check of athleticism.
  • Deception (UB) - Represents an attempt to lie or misdirect another creature.
  • Device (WU) - Represents an attempt to appraise an item or interact with some form of artifact.
  • Diplomacy (WB) - Represents an attempt to talk convince another creature that your point of view is right, or to accept some form of bargain.
  • Stealth (BG) - Represents an attempt to remain hidden from other creatures.
  • Heal (WG) - Represents an attempt to render first aid to a creature.
  • Intimidate (BR) - Represents an attempt to scare or threaten another creature.
  • Knowledge (U) - Determines whether your hero has some piece of knowledge or information.
  • Might (R) - Represents an attempt by your hero to achieve something by brute force.
  • Nature (G) - Represents your hero's ability to peacefully coexist with nature.
  • Observation (UG) - Represents whether or not your hero notices something.
  • Thievery (B) - Represents an attempt to steal an item, forge a document, or perform some other activity normally associated with crime.
  • Sense Motive (W) - Represents your hero’s ability to detect a lie.
  • Swim (UR) - Represents an attempt to… well, swim.
  • Willpower (WR) - Represents your hero’s ability to resist mental manipulation.
To make a skill check, you roll three six sided dice and add +2 to the result for each mana you have access to that is associated with the skill you are using. If the result is equal to or greater than a Difficulty Number (DN) set by the Deck Master, the attempt is successful.

Typical Difficulty Numbers
Below are some basic guidelines for appropriate DNs based on the difficulty of the task being attempted.
Simple: DN 5
Average: DN 10
Difficult: DN 15
Hard: DN 20

Events
Both players and the Deck Master can spend tokens to activate ‘events’. An event is a set of effects that calls for either the players or the Game master (or sometimes both) to make a skill check, and details what happens in the event of a success or failure. Events can only be activated at the start of a match. The description of an event has the following components:
  • Event Name: A catchy and clever name that the author has given to the event to help you imagine what’s going on.
  • Availability: Whether a player, the Deck Master, or either can activate this event. Some events will additionally be tagged as [Dungeon] events, meaning that the Deck Master may only activate them
  • Cost: How many tokens must be spent to activate this event.
  • Skill: The skill used to make the skill check for this event.
  • Difficulty: The DN that must be rolled in order to succeed a skill check against this event, given either as a static number or a formula.
  • Target: Who or what is affected by this event.
  • Success: The effect of the event if the skill check is successful.
  • Failure: The effect of the event if the skill check is not successful.
  • Special: Any other special requirements or effects that this event may have that can’t be covered by other sections.
  • Scale the Defenses
    Walls can't stop you.
  • Availability: Player
  • Cost: 2
  • Skill: Athletics
  • Difficulty: 10 + 2 per level of the targeted deck.
  • Target: One Dungeon Deck.
  • Success: At the start of your first non-bonus round of this match, choose a number of creatures you control equal to your heroes level. Those heroes are unblockable until the end of this turn.
  • Failure: Walls can stop you and you fall. For every two points you failed the skill check by, take 1 damage.
  • Disguise
    You cleverly disguise yourself as someone who belongs where you do not and gather information about your foe.
  • Availability: Player
  • Cost: 1 Token
  • Skill: Deception
  • Difficulty: 10 + 2 per level of the targeted Hero or Dungeon deck.
  • Target: One Dungeon or Hero deck.
  • Success: The Deck Master draws reveals 5 cards from the top of the chosen deck, plus an additional card for every two points the DN is beaten by. He then places those cards back into their library, and reshuffles the deck.
  • Failure: The enemy sees through your disguise and catches you off-guard, lose one bonus round this match.
  • Disable Traps
    You know your way around a cog, and these pitiful traps don't even phase you
  • Availability: Player
  • Cost: 2 Tokens
  • Skill: Device
  • Difficulty: 10 + 2 per level of the targeted Dungeon deck.
  • Target: One Dungeon Deck.
  • Success: The Deck Master reveals all artifact cards from the targeted deck with a converted mana cost less than or equal to the level of the player's Hero that activated this event. The player selects cards with a combined converted mana cost equal to or less than their heroes level (cards with a converted mana cost of 0 count as having a converted mana cost of 1), and those cards are exiled from play. All artifacts not selected are placed back into their library, and the library is shuffled.
  • Failure: The Deck Master may select one artifact card from the targeted deck, and place that either into their hand or into play at the start of the match.
  • Special: Player's with a hero with the Artificer or Rogue class have their heroes level counted as one higher for the purposes of this event.
  • Talk it Out
    It's all a misunderstanding, probably.
  • Availability: Player
  • Cost: 2 Tokens
  • Skill: Diplomacy
  • Difficulty: 15 + 1 per level of the targeted deck.
  • Target: One Dungeon Deck.
  • Success: The game master reveals a number of creature cards with a combined converted mana cost equal to twice that of the level of the player's Hero that activated this event, and exiles those cards from play. He then shuffles the targeted deck's library.
  • Failure: All you managed to do was piss them off. All creatures that are in play and controlled by the targeted deck at the end of this matches bonus rounds gain a number of +1/+0 tokens equal to the level of the targeted deck.
  • Special: If all creature spells in the targeted deck are exiled by this ability, the targeted deck automatically loses at the start of the match.
  • Sneaking Mission
    Tactical Espionage Action.
  • Availability: Player
  • Cost: 2 Tokens
  • Skill: Stealth
  • Difficulty: If the target deck is a hero deck the DN is equal to an Observation (UG) check made by the hero of the deck targeted. If the target is a dungeon deck, the GM draws cards from the targeted deck until he or she draws a creature card, and the DN is equal to the result of rolling three six sided dice +2 per U or G mana in that creature’s converted mana cost, the Deck Master then returns all cards drawn from the targeted deck to its library and shuffles it.
  • Target: One Deck.
  • Success: The player gains an additional bonus round at the start of the match.
  • Failure: You get caught whistling the Secret Agent Man theme. The player loses a bonus round at the start of the match and the Deck Master may search for a creature card the library of the targeted deck with a converted mana cost equal to or less than the level of that deck and place it into play for free. The Deck Master shuffles the deck after this is done.
  • First Aid
    Live dammit LIVE!
  • Availability: Player
  • Cost: 1
  • Skill: Heal
  • Difficulty: 10
  • Target: Any number of Creature cards in your graveyard with a combined converted mana cost equal to or less than your heroes level (cards with a converted mana cost of 0 count as having a converted mana cost of 1).
  • Success: Return the targeted cards to your library and shuffle your library.
  • Failure: You're not a very good doctor, do nothing.
  • Spook
    You prance about, acting very scary while doing so.
  • Availability: Player
  • Cost: 2 Tokens
  • Skill: Intimidate
  • Difficulty: 10 + 2 per level of the targeted deck.
  • Target: One deck.
  • Success: All creatures that are in play and controlled by the targeted deck at the end of this matches bonus rounds gain a number of -1/+0 tokens equal to the level of your hero.
  • Failure: You're not very spooky and you wasted everyone's time, lose one bonus round this match.
  • Special:
  • Mnemonic Device
    Because you studied so hard in school, you were always able to cast more spells than your classmates.
  • Availability: Player
  • Cost: 1
  • Skill: Knowledge
  • Difficulty: 10
  • Target: Any number of Sorcery, Instant, or Enchantment cards in your graveyard with a converted mana cost equal to or less than your heroes level (cards with a converted mana cost of 0 count as having a converted mana cost of 1).
  • Success: Return the targeted card to your library and shuffle your deck.
  • Failure: Maybe you didn't actually study that hard, do nothing.
  • Doorbreaker
    The Kool-Aid Man was your mentor.
  • Availability: Player
  • Cost: 3
  • Skill: Might
  • Difficulty: 10 + 2 per level of the targeted deck.
  • Target: One deck.
  • Success: The targeted deck loses one bonus round and all creatures that are in play and controlled by the targeted deck at the end of this matches first non-bonus round are tapped.
  • Failure: Doors are hard, place two cards from the top of your library into your graveyard and lose one bonus round this match.
  • Nature's Ally
    You know how to handle animals. And people, people are animals. Constructs too, because they're modeled after animals, usually. I mean animal, animate being, its sort of the same thing.
  • Availability: Player
  • Cost: 3
  • Skill: Nature
  • Difficulty: 15
  • Target: Creatures of a chosen type.
  • Success: All creatures of the targeted type that are in play and controlled by you at the start of the first non-bonus round receive a +1/+0 or +0/+1 token per level of your hero (you may choose each token individually).
  • Failure: I guess they weren't much like animals, all creatures of the chosen type instead receive a +0/-1 token.
  • Reconnaissance
    You decide to look before you leap
  • Availability: Player
  • Cost: 1
  • Skill: Observation
  • Difficulty: 10 + 2 per level of the targeted deck.
  • Target: One deck.
  • Success: The Deck Master reveals all color identities used in the targeted deck and the number of creatures in the targeted deck.
  • Failure: It was dark, do nothing.
  • Steal Stuff
    You're propensity to take things that are not yours has greatly furthered your adventuring career.
  • Availability: Player
  • Cost: 3
  • Skill: Thievery
  • Difficulty: 15 + 1 per level of the targeted deck.
  • Target: One deck.
  • Success: The Deck Master draws cards from the targeted deck until they draw an artifact card with a converted mana cost equal to or less than your heroes level and reveals it. The Deck Master places that card aside, outside of the deck, and shuffles all other cards drawn back into the targeted decks library. If you win the match, the artifact that was set aside is placed into your artifact sideboard.
  • Failure: They were useless baubles, do nothing.
  • See Through the Opposition
    Your foes intentions are clear as day to you.
  • Availability: Player
  • Cost: 2
  • Skill: Sense Motive
  • Difficulty: 10 + 2 per level of the targeted deck.
  • Target: One deck.
  • Success: At the end of all bonus rounds for this match, the Deck Master reveals the hand of the targeted deck.
  • Failure: You're not as clever as you thought, discard a card after your first draw phase of your first bonus round.
  • Death From Below
    You approach the enemy from a body of water; a pond, a river, the sea, a sewer, or whatever, and judiciously stab them.
  • Availability: Player
  • Cost: 1
  • Skill: Swim
  • Difficulty: 10 + 2 per level of the targeted deck.
  • Target: One dungeon deck.
  • Success: At the end of all bonus rounds, deal damage equal to your heroes power to a creature of your choice.
  • Failure: Blib blob blub blib, you lose a bonus round.
  • Special: The Deck Master may declare "There is no water here!" before you roll your skill check. If he or she does this, you receive 2 tokens back and may return one card from your graveyard to your library. Shuffle your library if you do so. If your Deck Master declares "There is no water here!" and proceeds to place an island into the Terrain Zone, smack them.
  • Shake it Off
    Mind Over Matter
  • Availability: Player
  • Cost: 2
  • Skill: Willpower
  • Difficulty: Special, see below.
  • Target: None.
  • Success: Special, see below.
  • Failure: Special, see below.
  • Special: Roll your skill check, but do not look at it or reveal it (use a cup). When a spell would target your hero at any point during this match, you may elect to reveal the result of your skill check. If the result is equal to or greater than 10 + twice the converted mana cost of the spell, the spell is counter. If not, nothing happens.
Tokens
At the start of a session of Mages that Gather, both the Deck Master and the players are given a number of tokens to spend on events. Each player receives a number of tokens equal to his or her hero’s level, and the Deck Master gets 3 tokens per level of each player participating. In addition to spending tokens on events, a Deck Master must spend tokens equal to the level of the decks he plays at the start of each match. If the Deck Master runs out of tokens, the players may declare that they are resting any time they are not in a match. After resting, all tokens are redistributed just as if it was the start of the session, and all heroes are fully healed, resetting their maximum hand size to be equal to their level, returning any of their cards that were exiled from play (other than artifacts) to their libraries, and shuffling their graveyard into their libraries.


Deck Mastering
When running a game of Mages that Gather as a Deck Master, your primary responsibility is to come up with a story for your players to interact with and ensure they have fun. Unfortunately, what you’ll actually spend most of your time doing is building decks to play a game where no one will recognize or appreciate how much time you spent preparing, and here are the rules for that.

Hero Decks
The most obvious way to prepare for a match is to build a deck (or multiple decks) just like they were heroes to oppose your players with, this works especially well for representing “boss monsters” or other particularly dangerous encounters with powerful individuals.

Dungeon Decks
There is another kind of deck that exists in Mages that Gather, and that is a ‘Dungeon Deck’. A dungeon deck is built more similarly to a traditional Magic the Gathering deck than a hero deck is. A dungeon deck is meant to represent a dangerous location that the player’s heroes are adventuring through. Dungeon decks are built according to the following rules
  • A dungeon deck has a level, arbitrarily chosen by the Deck Master
  • A dungeon deck’s library is always exactly 30 cards.
  • A dungeon deck may include 2 rare cards and 2 uncommon cards per level.
  • A dungeon deck may include no more than 3 copies of any given card.
  • A dungeon deck has an amount of life equal to its level multiplied by 5
  • A dungeon deck is defeated when it reaches 0 life
  • The maximum hand size of the game master is equal to the level of the dungeon deck at the start of the match.
Additionally, the Deck Master should remember to build his or her dungeon deck to fit a theme that makes sense within the narrative, and should also keep in mind not to be a dickhead.

Starting a Match
A match starts whenever the Deck Master declares it does. If the match is the players against one or more hero decks, place one or more basic lands into a new game zone I just invented called the “Terrain Zone”. These lands count as being in play throughout the entire match and serve to represent the location the match is taking place in story wise, and allow abilities like Islandwalk to function as intended.
Last edited by Sigil on Wed Sep 30, 2015 4:37 am, edited 9 times in total.
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OgreBattle
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Post by OgreBattle »

How many players do you intend to have at once, and how long do you expect the matches to go?

Deciding what cards to allow can be tricky as M:tG is filled with cards balanced around the meta they're released in and unexpected synergy in broader formats.

Your "Avatar" sounds like it could be a custom planeswalker card, where the PC's are represented in the Planeswalker format where they do a thing to extend their durability and expend it with other more powerful effects, building towards a game-winning final action. That's if you want an entire game of M:tG to be played out though.

It may be simpler to have conflict resolution= everyone gets 1-2 rounds to play with X mana out and X cards in hand.
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Sigil
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Post by Sigil »

The way I'm intending for things to work out is that in a session the players will play three to five matches before the GM runs out of tokens and the players get to rest (refreshing their decks), and that this takes one to two hours to accomplish (assuming all participants have their decks prepared).

I've currently got two players, so I'll outline what I want a play session to look like. Both players are third level, giving the GM 18 tokens to play with. Everyone magic tea parties for a bit, and eventually the players decide to go on a quest to steal an artifact from a goblin shaman that leads a tribe. To get to the mountains they have to cross some plains and have a match with a level 4 white deck (14 tokens left) representing the random encounters they have along the way, then the mountain pass is guarded by two ogres represented by two level two ogre themed avatar decks (10 tokens left), they beat the ogres handily and enter the goblin fortress having a match with a fifth level red dungeon deck (5 tokens left), the session culminates when the GM spends a token to activate the ambush event before springing a fourth level goblin shaman avatar deck at the players. All tokens are now expended, the players are rewarded with the artifact card, and their decks are refreshed. All in all this means they played 4 matches against two dungeon decks, what amounts to a two headed ogre match against weaker opponents, and a boss battle at the end after they've been worn down some.

Now, obviously, the rules will have to be balanced to accommodate this if I want that to actually be reasonable. It will be necessary to work out balanced cards per level, life totals, token costs, etc. All of those values right now are just me making guesses at what might be reasonable.

As for banned cards, I figure that with the relatively small size and static nature of avatar decks, it shouldn't be too awful reviewing and discussing the players decks like you would a character sheet in a normal rpg.

I'd imagine the game would be manageable with up to three players but be cumbersome with four.

Edit: some words, since I posted this from my phone. Though the idea of a magic tree party is amusing.
Last edited by Sigil on Mon Sep 21, 2015 7:08 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Sigil
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Post by Sigil »

I've updated the original post.

Changes:
  • 10 species and 14 classes available.
  • Avatars are now called heroes.
  • Rules properly handle several interactions with heroes and other MtG systems (tokens, poison, etc)
  • Hero decks now have a sideboard equal in size to half of their deck size that they have access to at the start of each match. I hope that this gives some variety to the game and prevents it from getting stale. I also plan to have several events for players to spend tokens on that allow them to gain information about the decks they'll face in a match.
  • Various other language changes for increased clarity.

    So, next I've got to write up all of the events. This will probably be as time consuming as the rest of the text was, and occupy about 1/3 of the total word count of the final product since it's a subsystem created from whole cloth for this game unlike the rest of the rules. After that I'll do a final pass on the whole thing for balance, and then it will be ready for testing.
Red_Rob
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Post by Red_Rob »

Possible pitfalls - your adventures are heavily themed around your card collection. If you want monster decks to be thematic with the cards you are playing you might find that limits your adventure options somewhat. Also, given your goal was to reduce prep time this seems pretty heavy on prep. It also doesn't seem that flexible if the players go off track from what you had planned - having to make thematic decks on the fly isn't as easy as flipping the Monster Manual to Orc.

From the game standpoint, having the deck size go up with level seems bad as smaller decks are better in Magic. I also noticed that Red mana straight gives you Power whereas Blue magic gives you the same amount of power, but only if you counter a spell first.

Magic is built around the idea of the curve, where you start with small spells and build up to the bigger ones. By having Heroes start with a creature and all their lands in play you could see some weird swinginess. I think I'd be tempted to just pack my Hero deck with kill spells, blast whatever the DM played and swing with my Hero each turn.

edit: Currently you have life increasing with level, but also hand size which determines how many times you get to use that life total. That means a level 3 Green Elf will have 6+3 life and has to be killed 3 times, for a total of 27 life. A level 7 Green Elf has 14+3 life and has to be killed 7 times, for a total of 119 life. By level 12 to kill this Elf you have to deal a total of 324 damage, which puts the padded sumo in 4e to shame :tongue:. Another side effect of increased life totals is that "pay life to X" spells get proportionally better.

If you want to mix MtG and D&D in a simpler way, something our group has done is to play the Commander format and use custom made Commanders based on our RPG characters. This way you can make a card based around your favourite character (or NPC!) and give them abilities to match, and then make a deck based around them. Your Barbarian might have a Rage ability that lets them discard cards to add Power and Toughness, and then you make a deck that works around discarding for example. Or you give them an ability that works on all Barbarians and then build a Barbarian deck.

If you are finding prep time is taking too long you could always try using a simpler system. Microlite20 is basically 3e stripped right down to basics - 3 stats, a handful of skills and abilities. However, because it uses the D20 base it still allows you to use 3e compatible adventures and monsters.
Last edited by Red_Rob on Sat Sep 26, 2015 10:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
Simplified Tome Armor.

Tome item system and expanded Wish Economy rules.

Try our fantasy card game Clash of Nations! Available via Print on Demand.

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Sigil
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Post by Sigil »

On narrative flexibility, I'm not as concerned as most people would be with this, but it is a good point. The way our current D&D sessions are structured is that, due to time constraints, my players have agreed to mostly linear episodic sessions, but at the end of the sessions they get their treasure/gold and discuss what they want to do next, and I prepare some things around that theme so they still had influence on what they're facing. At least that's how it works in the best case. So I fully expect them to decide at the end of the previous session what they're doing, and I theme the decks for next week around that, and those just are the decks they play against as that's already what they've agreed to in theme.

For prep time, I fully expect that I'll be going to deck building websites sometimes and modifying pre-existing decks to fit the structure, especially for 'dungeon decks' where deck structure is more similar.

I think you're right about deck size increasing with level, its wonky and makes match duration hard to pin down. Given that, I'm considering changing deck sizes to standard fixed amounts (maybe 30 for heroes), and increasing the size of the sideboard with level (as it already does). I want to have mechanics in place, in the form of events, that will let the players gain information about a deck they're facing before a match, and give them the ability to make good choices on what to switch in from their side boards.

On the mana curve, this is actually what I'm most concerned about already, will magic cards as written still be viable in a game with essentially no curve? Will it place too much emphasis on mana acceleration cards? Will mana acceleration cards cause you to use too many cards for too little gain considering you have a limited number of cards for a series of matches? Those are things that I don't think I'll really have a great grasp on until I get a feature complete set of rules and I can do some play-testing, both on my own and with my players (who are after all the intended audience).

On bonuses from different colors of mana, I admittedly threw that together very quickly to get something on paper, having blue mana tied to countering is probably a bit wonky, it incentives certain styles of blue hero more than I'd want it to. And it's too weak as it is anyway. I'll probably wholly replace that mechanic.

On life totals, its noteworthy to keep in mind that the players have to play a series of matches with a single deck, and even though the total amount of life available to them will be large, if they take just a fraction of that in damage they're hand size gets decreased and they're that much closer to losing over the course of the session. It's also notable that heroes are valid targets for spells that "destroy target creature" (and similar effects) which completely bypasses their life totals. If the players "win" a match, but have their hand size reduced by more than 1, they've probably ended up behind the curve as far as the entire session is concerned. That said, I'll have to be careful to limit maximum life values for heroes to a range where creatures and effects that deal damage as well as effects that directly remove a target from play are both viable. If life totals get too large, the predominant play will just be to load down on destroy effects, if they're too low, creatures and direct damage will be the predominant play. I do plan on having a few events that allow the players to attempt a skill check to recover some of their lost hand size, or return a number of cards in their graveyard to their library before a match. It may also be worth it to change it so that the GM does not build Hero Decks, and instead have a "Villian Deck" that has a card that plays similarly to a Hero, but has a larger fixed life value and does not rely on the hand size mechanic.
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Sigil
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Post by Sigil »

I decided to write up one event for each skill that are available to the players. I wanted to begin defining how the players interact with the metagame surrounding matches before doing the same for the GM.

Haven't implemented any of the changes discussed in my last post yet.
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Post by Sigil »

Another update.

The Game Master is now called the Deck Master (for laughs).

Simplified the language surrounding playing the game (especially involving the hero/life dynamic) and building a hero.

Reworked the rules for building a deck, static 30 cards now with a growing list of cards you can use to build your deck and swap in/out of your library.

Simplified language involving artifacts.

Removed unique bonuses for different colors of mana for each level, at least for now. Having trouble thinking of enough reasonable but unique things. Will probably revisit.

Various other minor changes that aren't notable.

Next up is another pass on player activated events, many of them are too samey, and write ups of at least one event that the GM can trigger involving each skill. Possibly some simple neutral events also.
Last edited by Sigil on Wed Sep 30, 2015 4:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
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