Blackwater. Seriously, what the hell?

[Lago_AM3P]

See title.

What was our President THINKING?

[Catharz]

"Thinking"?

Er...

[Prak]

elaborate, please, not all of us keep up with the news and wikipedia leaves something to be desired...

[cthulhu]

Yur, I am confused.

I have to say I find the blackwater thing hilarious. I think the US govenment is engaging in corrupt practises, and if they lead a WWII style crackdown on corruption they'd do alot better.

[Lago_AM3P]

Fucking--what da?! I thought wikipedia was supposed to be GOOD at this sort of crap.

Here you go.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/05/washi ... br][br]You can click the embedded hyperlinks in the article to find out more.

Lazy Man's Version:

Blackwater is a private security force in Iraq of about 30,000 strong. There's a less politically-charged term than mercenaries but damned if I know what it is.

As you can see from the version, they don't comply with military law. Last week there was a big stink about a gunfight in which 8 civilians were killed. The Pentagon wanted to pull their contract for this and other incidents for the time being while the investigation was underway. But the White House said 'no way, bitches' when they realized that they can't stage their murderous war without Blackwater's muscle so NOTHING HAPPENED. AT ALL.

Short story even shorter, Bush is completely militarily reliant on a murderous private organization that at the moment has little to no accountability. Oops.

[cthulhu]

Mate, there are more private contractors in iraq than there are military personnel.

There are somewhere between 30,000 and 50,000 security personnel total, blackwater does not have that many people. Most of those security contractors are actually from the philipines and other places, and by comparision blackwater is super professional.

The entire situation is bizarre.

[Lago_AM3P]

and by comparision blackwater is super professional.

Vision going blurry... will to live, fading...

[cthulhu]

Welcome to the free market! And by free, I mean corrupt!

[Prak]

Oh.



Where do I sign?

[Username17]

While looking back at the wars of Byzantium as historians we count the losses of the Varangian Guard as losses of the empire, for purposes of home consumption those losses were lumped together with the foreign dead. Furthermore, the Varangian Guard were loyal directly to the emperor and not to any faction in Byzantine politics nor to any family or region in the Byzantine region. Thus, the emperor could rely on them to do as ordered regardless of the popularity of those orders amongst the citizens of the empire, and regardless of the acivities of the senate.

Sound familiar? Granted that Blackwater raises the doublethink level to new levels by actually being mostly composed of US citizens, but nonetheless the White House has so far successfully managed to spin dead Blackwater personel as a separate and unreported tally from the dead "American Soldiers".

-Username17

[Prak]

and now we get to ask, "How smart is dubya?"

[JonSetanta]

I've done my reading.

It's capitalism at best, maybe as good as an emblem of the corporate corruption both communist and religious-radicals despise, but hey... not like they are saints either.

Corporate mercs allow governments to accomplish objectives (such as achieving "Law") without actually abiding the rules that government has set in the first place.
Gestapo might be a good comparison, but they worked directly under their government.

On the other hand these Blackwater guys (and maybe women too?) are treated by enemy forces with absolutely no mercy. If caught, they are shot. No ransom, no prisoner. They hate Blackwater and other corporate stooges more than America (hell, Arab mercs even treat Israeli soldiers better.)

[Crissa]

The only time Blackwater or other contractors are mentioned is when their deaths are politically expedient: See the four who were drawn, quartered, and hung in Fallujah.

[FLASH=425,350,false,#ffffff]http://www.youtube.com/v/dv6Fd9iCIvQ[/FLASH]

Notice that several of the vehicles may have had fatalities. Tasteful music, too. This is why American power is despised in much of the world which has tasted the touch of our demand and not the supply.

-Crissa

[JonSetanta]

Oh yeahhh I remember that hubub a while ago! Back then I thought "meh it's some foreign-hired mercs from another country with no connection to the U.S. Military".
Oh, the irony.

[tzor]

1191557160[/unixtime]]What was our President THINKING?

Trust me, if you knew it would drive you INSANE!

If you look carefully at the history of the president you will find a plethora of cases where it appears his first question is "how can I get around this stupid law?" From signing statements, to yes attourney men saying that everything he does is legal even when it isn't. Outsourcing the war to an agency which one then made outside every law was BRILLIANT (in a Guinness sort of way) and as a side bonus you don't have retired mercinaries in your VA system or qualifying for annoying organizations like the VFW, ExPOW, DAV, etc.

I was heard a interesting factiod from the local NPR stating interviewing a local republican congressman. There has been no injuries of anyone whom Blackwater has been hired to guard in 07, 06 and the only one injured was someone who had his eardums damaged from an IED. The ends may not justify the means, but Blwckwater does deliver on the ends.

[PhoneLobster]

There has been no injuries of anyone whom Blackwater has been hired to guard

Just to point out, your apparent belief in that claim suggests the word "unaccountable" slipped by you when someone was describing Blackwater's activities...

[cthulhu]

Man, I don't get why everyone cares so much about blackwater. Lets face it, tendances to shoot at people randomly is pretty common when you box young men up in a situation where they are surrounded by people they don't understand, but who are prone to making active efforts to kill them.

While I find it hhilarious that the state department employees are guarded by blackwater, in the grand scheme of things it's not that bad. And hell, not even that many of them get shot.

The bad eggs are idiots like this

"It is a money-saving thing. I saw it with Edinburgh Risk, Armourgroup and a number of other security companies. Armourgroup had Nepalese contractors sitting sideways, exposed and ready to fight. I am going 'Jesus Christ!' The insurance policy for the Nepalese … is nothing (for the company). I saw these cars with no doors on them and Fijians and Nepalese, poor buggers, sitting sideways and I have just gone, 'bugger that'."

http://fairuse.100webcustomers.com/fair ... br][br]And they are dying, and probably lots off. Blackwater and Unity are atleast hiring professionals - the clowns like that are hiring tier two troops then giving them heavy machineguns so they can go off and get killed, after killing a bunch of civilians, which antagonises everyone.

[JonSetanta]

Well like my new sig says, I'm Chaotic Evil.

My opinion on the matter of Blackwater fuckups is that when enough of their members die they will reconsider their tactics, and no sooner. They are beyond American law as it is so no amount of legislation will change that; that part is just for public show.

[cthulhu]

Well, thats my point. Blackwater are actually pretty good compared to like Armourgroup. So blackwater actually looks after it's people and does what it sees as being effective.

Armourgroup is just sending out nepalese contractors to die, so the people who decide on tactics don't actually wear any risk so thats a moot point anyway ;P