erik wrote:
The more I consider it, the more I think I may have to have a 3rd set of tokens (so far it's just Health and Mana) to signify Armor damage since I need some way to note that armor or a vehicle is damaged even after the health has been healed. Maybe I'll just give armor their own structural damage capacity or something and chew through normal health like popcorn (armor-defeating weapons deal quad damage vs. unarmored?).
You've mentioned power armor may give health bonuses depending on how bulky it is, that sounds like a start to an SDC system for armor and vehicles. It could also make fighting big monsters more exciting as you can crack their armor open and make them more vulnerable to lighter weapons.
Are you going to have vehicles have separate segments that can be attacked? Such as a land fortress with multiple turrets to shoot out.
Yeah, I was hoping to avoid giving power armor and armor in general their own independent health scores, but with the direction I've been working towards it seems inevitable.
In this case I will have to revise my answer where I stated having natural armor and worn armor was of no additional benefit, since the armor carries ablative health now and that is totally an additional benefit. This is going to add roughly 1 more attack for how long it takes to kill people, and maybe 2-3 more for those with natural armor under worn armor. But I can live with that.
Light Armor
3-4 SDC
Med Armor
5-6 SDC
Heavy Armor
7-8 SDC
For natural armor, I will still treat that as linked with base health, but Cyber Plate will be changed to just normal heavy armor (sans penalties), and full conversion borgs will have the natural medium armor. Except antimonster borgs will remain natural armor heavy only. Makes for a better distinction.
On specifically targeting parts of vehicles, for the most part, Nah. Vehicles will just be a single shell of ablative health and armor. At least for reasonable sized things. On a friggin Galapagos Mech I could see treating it effectively as a pile of smaller mechs that are bound together, just because it is so enormous. I included rules groundwork for things up to retarded sizes, but those are probably not going to be present in core rules. So I'll worry about Death's Head Transports, Godzilla and Galapagos Mech's another day and just leave a footnote about treating them as many smaller opponents in some ways.
I guess if I wanted a called shot mechanic I would have it be an outcome for the Aim action. Instead of getting the Fight bonus (or maybe in addition to it?) you can influence what area is hit on a damage location roll (say, shift it by 1). So an called shot only takes effect if you actually deal enough damage to make that roll, using a similar table to the one for determining where the fatal wound winds up when you finally crack the plating.
Instead of getting wounded as people are wont to do, damage can disable vehicle/mech systems. This part I actually meant to have written up already. Essentially once you get something to half health, or deal 3+ damage in one hit, you can inflict a disabling status effect, on vehicles/mechs that would be damaging a relevant system.
Nice thing for most mechs and power armor is that they are still humanoid:
• weapons on arms and upper body, and body shots may deal damage to people inside of mech
• propulsion on legs and lower body, and body shots may deal damage to people inside of mech
• sensors on head
- with footnotes for changes if any for specific mechs (but most follow that pattern)
I could make a simple generic damage location chart for vehicles too covering most vehicles (cars, cycles, tanks, spider walkers).
1 • propulsion
2 • engine
3-5 • cabin (hits pilot if on a cycle)
6 • weapons
I confess that while this is intended as a conversion, I'm looking forward to the IP scrubbing wherein I can do my own take on a rifts-esque-verse. For one, the dictator of the post-apocalyptic american government is batshit crazy and insists on putting skulls on every fucking thing. Like the skull equivalent of batman. This is already tacitly true in Rifts, but I'll make it explicit canon in mine.
Last edited by erik on Tue Aug 04, 2015 4:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
I've added and tweaked to the first page - antagonists, classes, armor/power armor, and tidbits here and there. noticed that I fucked some tags so fixed that.
And here's my preliminary look at the GDF...
Step 1: Name the PCs
Mercenary band. You do a job. You get paid. Keep flying.
Step 2: Write up a Six Person Party
1. Horned Dragon Hatchling
- Tough. Able to take a beating and tear shit up. Can fly, shapeshift for a few hours a day, breathe fire, punch through armor, some spells, some psionic powers. Your weak points are limited skills. You just have to rely on your awesome power set to get anything done.
- stock (Natural Heavy Armor, Flight, Natural Weapons (F6), Super Strength, Alter Self (6 hours a day), Fire Breath (M8, area attack); Magic Lore; Mind Control Psionic, Universal Psionic, Detect Magic, Dispel Magic)
2. Glitter Boy (Robot Pilot)
- Heavy power armor with a mega heavy weapon which can reduce the landscape to hair, teeth and dog shit in a jiffy. When out of power armor, you are a nothing special in a fight, but do have a few skills to rely upon.
- stock (Pilot Armor-Light Armor, Glitterboy Heavy Power Armor (Boom Gun (F11, 200 shots), Laser Pistol (F6, 50 shots), Repair Kit; Pilot Mech, Repair, Computer Hacking, Demolitions)
3. Juicer
- Fast, good in a fight. Downside is starting with light armor without an outstanding weapon. But soon you'll tech up and be a beast with 6 fight and speed like a borg. Automatic dodge with speed 7 means you're like heavy armor+ when wearing light armor.
- stock (Juicer Assassin Plate-Light Armor, Vibroblade (F7), Laser Rifle (F8, 30 shots), Sky Cycle, Juicer Rig; Automatic Dodge, Black Market, Mobility)
4. Scientist
- plenty of skills, a nice vehicle, but not a lot of muscle in a fight. medium armor makes you a bit more survivable. If you're a medic then that makes everyone else a bit more survivable. Mainly serve as support until you get yourself a combat mech at which point you can be a total beast.
- stock (Explorer-Med Armor, Ion Rifle (F6, 8 shots), Behemoth Mech; Med Kit, Hand Brain); Computer Hacking, Medicine, Repair, Science, Security Systems
5. Technowizard
- Mix of magic and tech skills. Depending upon what spells may have some real utility.
- stock (Ley Line Walker-Light Armor, Lightning Rifle (M8- Electrcity, 2 mana to fire), Repair Kit, TW Hovercar (2 mana to fly); Repair, Magic Lore, Computer Hacking; Detect Magic, Mystic Portal- grenade launcher, Sleep- sonic stunner)
6. Dog Boy
- Sensitive Psionic, heightened senses and tracking make a good investigator. Moderate fight stats for taking on non-mechanized opponents.
- stock (Dog Pack Riot Armor-Light Armor, Flechette Rifle (F7, 30 Shots), Neural Whip (F5, Stun, Entangle); Heightened Senses, Runner, Survival, Monster Lore, Security Systems; Sensitive Psionic, Universal Psionic)
Step 3: Write up a Three Person Party
A. "Well rounded"
Dragon
Scientist
Juicer
- Can get through fights on the dragon and juicer's merits, supernatural challenges off the dragon, and the scientist can solve many tech related problems. Can travel quickly with juicer and scientist on skycycle and dragon flying.
B. "Stand back and cover your ears"
Glitter Boy (Robot Pilot)
Technowizard
Dog Boy
- Again a good balance of combat, supernatural and investigative sets. Can travel quickly with TW's hovercar but GB running is a liability on speed
C. "Skills"
Dog Boy
Technowizard
Scientist
- Lacking in combat. Loaded for bear on investigation, and solid for figuring out magical or tech troubles. Can travel quickly in TW hovercar
D. "Kill Team"
Dragon
Glitter Boy (Robot Pilot)
Juicer
- Murder comes easy. A couple skills covered by the robot pilot and juicer. Can travel quickly on juicer's skycycle but GB running is a liability on speed
Step Four: Outline an Adventure
A Job for Bothans
Infiltrate or assault the small Coalition outpost with only 20 personnel mostly grunts, and grab the plans off their local network to the new skull fortress being built that were carelessly left here.
"Random" encounter with an a pair of Simvan (one of whom is wounded) on Ostrosauruses. Can either parley or fight. Getting their aid can help with exfiltration after doing a smash and grab for the data plans, or in helping fight the psi-stalker who wounded one of them. Providing medic services goes a long way towards receiving help. Fighting will earn you some grenades as loot, and a stolen CS Deadboy Helmet (with communications still left on with the base's codes).
perimeter patrol
1 Psi Stalker (medium armor (no helmet), psyvampire, pyrokinesis)… likes to blast with fire inferno (M6 area attack)
3 Dog Pack (mooks armed with vibroblades only, the psi-stalker complained about them being kill stealers)
inside the bunker
1 CS Soldier (exosuit, medkit)… tough, prefers to close and chop with vibroaxe (super str, F7), but a mean shot with laser rifle (F8, 30 shots) while on his way to closing distance
12 CS Grunts (mooks)
3 CS Tech Officers (mooks)
If combat goes poorly for the soldiers (non-mook soldier taken down, and at least 3 other mooks down) they will either abandon their post if able, or surrender if offered the chance. expectation is that not all mooks are suited up for battle and show up at en masse. 1 Soldier + 4 Grunts, +2 grunts every 2 rounds for the next 8 rounds.
if there's a battle at the bunker then reinforcements will be called for. in about 5 minutes 2 SAMAS power armor will be there. About 5 minutes after that a heavy armor squad on hover-transport that was in the area. They'd do best to bail as it will continue to escalate as proper reinforcements are sent. EMP grenades can help jam calls for help unless someone escapes their area.
Team A. If you take out the stationed Psi Stalker and his pack of Dog Boys then you have decent odds of managing past remaining guards with the Dragon's shapechange/mind control or the Scientist for defeating security countermeasures and hacking. Could just fight your way through
Team B. Glitterboy can probably kill everyone himself so long as he starts with the heavy hitters (who will be reduced to salsa quickly). Dog Boy can mind read to get info or technowizard can hack it with direct access
Team C. Has to get creative since pitched battle is not an option. Perimeter fight with psi-stalker is survivable thanks to his not wearing a helmet. Aim for the head! Against the CS troops inside the bunker your best hope is sneaking around and using Security Systems to finagle sneaking close and use their wifi to hackity hack, or direct access if you manage to fake IDs and bluff an inspection or somesuch
Team D. Brief pitched battle and have the robot pilot exit glitterboy to hack the data, or dragon mind control, or just intimidate some surviving tech. Easy peasy.
There are several helping points made because the MC realizes oh, only 3 people are showing up to the 6 person adventure. Can give the psi stalker a helmet and guns to Dog boys, and add another buff Soldier or a SAMAS, and a couple Railgun tripods manned by mooks to the bunker if playing with a full house. With a full party you have a lot more options, and could conceivably do this as a heist rather than a smash and grab.
Step Five: Write out a campaign
Taken
Your rag-tag mercenary band has been hired to rescue a wealthy person's family (has a mighty cache of pre-rifts artifacts) that was kidnapped by Splugorth slavers.
• Tracking/fighting raiders.
Using either detect magic or survival easy enough. Teams A-D can find them. Teams A,B and D can handle the fight. C will just have to keep following or get creative and make a shopping trip for explosives maybe.
• Going to Atlantis
Teams A-D each have a spellcaster who can probably figure out the gateway mechanism on slave barge to go to Atlantis. Team C cannot take one out on their own without being creative though. They do have a hover car that can run on magic rather than fuel to take the long way. It's going to be tiring on the poor Technowizard though.
• Getting along in Splynn and gathering info
Traveling via gate may have a bit of a fight with some overlords, but Teams A, B and D can do that just fine. Team C will need to use some moxy, unless flying in then they can Science to figure their way.
• Rescue the slaves
Black Market would help, or Science with scanners. Could wind up simply buying back the slaves, or stealing them with a proper fight
• Get home
Steal a vehicle to get out, jump a portal, hire a shifter, or take your own vehicle home.
• Get paid
Your client was impatient and enlisted a shifter to summon a demon to help. Things went poorly on that end and now you have a Nightmare (mind control, biomanipulation) and a dominated Shifter mook to deal with in order to keep the family safe.
toughest fighter will be biomanipulated, but should be an acceptable fight for any team. Easiest for dragon since they're harder to biomanipulate and a tough fighter.
Step Six: Do the Math
Bah, the boring part. And the important part.
Job for Bothans
The psistalker is sorta dangerous to lightly armored PCs with an M6 area attack. That's why the simvan are thrown in there, to warn about him if nothing else. And getting killed isn't too final, able to be revived if Scientist is on team.
Best solution to the melee soldier is magic with his pathetic magic stat for defense. Sleep and Mind Control especially. Boom gun also works, but not as well.
With direct access for hacking, or a coerced CS tech, getting the data isn't too hard. Difficulty 2 when trained is doable.
The weakest link all around is the Scientist. They can help get Simvan on the team's side with Medicine, and can do Hacking or printing up forged IDs with Security Systems, but with the ion rifle is only an even match for a mook soldier. I actually felt that skill and tech choices were still strained when that should be their bread and butter. With more then you can do things with spy drones, demolition kits (grenades alone would give a useful set of combat options even beyond just killing people).
The GB's 11 Dice will tear up lightly armored and even medium armored enemies in about 2 rounds apiece. 3 rounds for the heavy armored guys. He's kind of a one man wrecking ball but that's what he's supposed to be.
Meanwhile mooks are dealing 6 dice, almost can't touch the GB or Dragon and may expect to deal 1-2 damage to the Medium or Light armored PCs. If the Soldier gets in melee he can scuff up the GB some, and the GB in melee is a lot more vulnerable since he can't use the boomgun in melee.
In time PCs will catch up some with the GB as they get better weapons and armor and mechs.
Last edited by erik on Sun Aug 09, 2015 6:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
Well, I've played some with Strange Eons to make cards, and wasn't super impressed with the customization. So I guess I'll bang out my own templates. I also was annoyed at finding proper creative commons licensed art that fits my specific niches and style desires. So I'll do that myself too.
How many things to draw for cards?
(17) small cards:
1 Tech (generic)
1 Cyber (generic)
8 Weapons (Melee, Pistol, Rifle, Heavy, Mega Heavy, Grenade, Explosive, Rocket)
3 Armor (L, M, H)
1 Spell (generic)
1 Special (generic)
1 Trait (generic)
1 Race (generic)
(15) big cards
5 Skill (by set)
1 Psychic (power sets, generic art)
3 Power Armor (L, M, H)
2 Vehicle (hover vs. not)
4 Mech (L Civ, H Civ, L Mil, H Mil)
(35) Core Classes
And then a few art pieces for my little rules pamphlet.
It's probably somewhere between 80-120 hours of artwork, mostly if I can get in a groove I can probably bang them out in ~1 hour apiece for B/W line art, plus a couple hours to create 3 layout templates for small, big and character cards (and a 4th layout template for the rules guide page borders).
Given my typical time availability that's gonna be more than a month of work. I'll post some card samples as I go I reckon. These cards will be rebranded, as will the rules guide. I've already been going through thesaurusizing names, hopefully improving over originals. Not hard to outdo shit like "dead boy", "glitter boy" and "crazy".
erik wrote:Well, I've played some with Strange Eons to make cards, and wasn't super impressed with the customization. So I guess I'll bang out my own templates. I also was annoyed at finding proper creative commons licensed art that fits my specific niches and style desires. So I'll do that myself too.
To keep the authentic feel of RIFTS you can just trace over 80's anime mecha.
Juicer's rig is from M.D. Geist
Glitterboy is a combination of the helmet and shoulder cannon used by the heroine in Gaiarth and ZZ Gundam's gun and body.
A bunch of robot vehicles and power armor are from Bubblegum Crisis, Macross, Mospeada, Shirow works, and so on
The Deadboy hardsuit is from Otomo's "Farewell to weapons", down to the placement of the heat sink.
If I'm rebranding it I don't reckon I can just trace. Otherwise I'd just straight up copy images since that's more efficient. Rifts definitely patterned a lot of their art on contemporaries, but I don't think you can say the deadboy armor is a total rip off of Otomo's.
I confess a lack of familiarity with Farewell to Weapons, so I googled for anyone else making that association and I think this thread is the first.
But yeah, they definitely base a lot off of Robotech/Macross stuff, especially on account of them also having done Robotech RPG books before they ever began Rifts. I'm surprised Siembieda didn't just copy Robotech art in whole hog the way he liked to reuse art, licensing be damned. This review of NGR highlights a lot of art similarities. The format for that review is shit, but rereading NGR did remind me of one of the horrible things I won't be converting and had burned from my memory. Rifts Gypsies. Fuck.
Anywho, I did this 15-20 years ago...
I'm a bit better artist now and don't mind drawing my own stuff. Designing from Rifts inspiration will be fun.
[edit: Here's a work in progress. Toying around with character card template. The oval of course is a portal where I'll be placing character portraits. I was going to have a crooked screen replacing the clipped photo, then realized this is so much more appropriate.
Haven't decided what all goes on the card. Size maybe, hero points and reputation tracker maybe? I'm considering having a block where starting stuff is listed (skills, equipment, psy, spells, specials, traits, weapon, armor), similar to Arkham Horror. And I'll have the starting attribute numbers written faintly in the boxes on the archtype specific versions.
I forgot that the amount of character cards is actually going to be higher than just the number of archtypes since I'll have some repetition (say a glitterboy pilot and a mech pilot, four elementalists).
Here's my title for the game
Last edited by erik on Sat Aug 22, 2015 7:05 am, edited 4 times in total.
I've underestimated a hurdle for the artwork... having tools to do it right and large time blocks to work uninterrupted. I have a drawing tablet, but my free drawing programs are shit. I'm tempted to ink on copy paper and then scan it, which seems so 20th century. I have been storyboarding or whatever a written description+inspiration image for each art piece is called, it's hard to find the large enough chunks of time to churn out a proper piece, and it's harder than I thought to do them piecemeal. I've gone back to the well of community commons pictures with appropriate licenses and images so that I can edit some to suit my needs in addition to drawing other things.
So, since it has been frustrating getting the art started, I've focused on my layout and creation of my PDF rule book. I'm creating it as a document in Libre Office (which is so shitty, but less shitty now that I figured out creation of custom headers) and will save as PDF when done with that portion, then overlay border art, and as a polish for the document. Cover art should wait until I get everything else done, unless the mood strikes me to work on that more than other stuff, but it really is lowest priority and the biggest individual piece. It's 22 pages right now and nearly done with the rules (maybe 8-10 pages of rules left). Specific classes, items, powers will have their rules on cards rather than in the booklet. And there will probably be another 20 pages of setting stuff and documentation - location info, major players (city-state governments), rules for shopping (it will be similar to AH, but expanded), glossary, index.
So I have continued working, but it's not stuff I can just dump onto this thread easily yet. I expect to start an IMOI thread with download links and sample images when I'm ready, and keep this one open for idea feedback while still creating drafts.
I'm reminding myself regularly as I proceed that I shouldn't try too hard to prune out the stupidity to make things credible. Keep it incredible - stupidity and all.
But vampires are not harmed by squirt guns or cross flashlights.
Fuck that.
preview of art design divergence:
The United Republic's Hornet class flying power armor, rough idea sketch. I like the idea of an x-wing and rocket boots (actually on sides of calves, but y'know) along with a familiar back-mounted propulsion w/shoulder air intakes. When landed the wings will close and swivel back some giving a further wasp-like appearance.
Popular fashion for full conversion borgs will be Kabuki mask types rather than giant eyebrow monster skulls.
At least one light power armor will be a bit similar to the Rocketeer design, but with a bit more armor plating than a leather jacket.
My initial Shattercannon heavy power armor design was stripped down a bit, no tubes all over like the Glitterboy has, but it's a little too plain jane. So I'll have to add something stupid to it to make it look cooler. Maybe make it look more like Terminator armor and jazz up the helmet with a mohawk or something else non-functional.
I've collapsed my art needs to 9 big card images, 12 small card images, and still the shitload of iconic character arts, mostly because those are way more fun to draw than stuff like a cracked safe or a tabletop with arcane paraphernalia, which in turn are way more fun to draw than background designs. Sadly, the least fun to draw are the next step.
Rough draft of item card to be used for Tech Equipment, Cybernetics, Weapons, Armor, Species, Spells, Special Abilities & Traits:
Card name at top, generic picture of class of item in the blue portal box, and description in the large bottom block.
Credit or Heroism cost bottom right circle
Handedness in bottom left circle
I'll add some filler at the bottom empty gap, but I'm not jazzed about it yet. This is just Mark I. It should look better when I have a background pattern instead of boring white.
(17) small card types:
Tech - tricorder, 01010100 01000101 01000011 01001000
Cyber - bionic hand/forearm
Melee Weapon - melee weapons rack/energy blade?
Ranged Weapon - laser gun, e-clip
Grenade - grenade cylinders in case
Explosive - plastique blocks
Rocket - mini-rocket being launched from forearm mounted launcher
Armor - chest plate with dents and scorch marks
Spell - Melting candle, scroll
Special, Trait, Species - DNA helix
Espionage Skill - opened safe
Military Skill - medals, combat knife, c4 block
Technical Skill - bookshelf, tricorder
Physical Skill - climbing gear, weights
Wilderness Skill - forest
(5) big card types
Psychic Powers - closeup of eyes, blurred all around
Power Armor -shattercannon or hornet suit
Vehicle - dashboard (speedometer, e-cell % charge display)
Mech - shadow outline of mech going toe to toe with dinosaur or giant beast
Monster card - closeup of big scary teeth
(35 or so) Core Classes
[edit: And now that I've woken up and had some time to play more, here's the item card mark ii, making progress...
I hate that it lacks polish, but I'm used to drawing on paper not a crappy drawing app. I guess for what it is I consider it completed and will start filling in the blanks of pictures and text. I have another file with the text layer since the drawing app I'm using (Seashore) doesn't let me save layers on images (save merges layers).
Last edited by erik on Tue Sep 01, 2015 3:16 am, edited 2 times in total.
And here is a first draft of what a sample "big card" (in this case a psychic power set) will look like. The type-specific art would be on the back.
Not a lot of color. I'll think about what I wanna do about that. Maybe blue-tint the background ever so slightly. Maybe throw some fluff-tabs on bottom and battery/signal alerts on top. I'll clean up the border around the screen to make that seamless.
I'm not 1000% sold on the font used for main letters since it has a tendency to squish letters together sometimes, but as noted above, it is going to be a bitch to tweak these things. I'm also worried that I need a larger font for the Effect description and to provide more area for that as well. If I create icons for Range and Duration then I can overlap those with Powers using partial transparency and that will make the entire rest of the area available to write the Effect text.
To deal with the free-ware quality software that doesn't save separate layers, I'm going to just have a text image layout separate for each card and then paste it onto the image template when finished. I just wanted to post some progress.
Man, making cards is my leastest favorite part of the process. It's invigorating when I take a break and go back to writing fluff and world descriptions for the end of the rules pamphlet. I guess I'll briefly enjoy designing icons for ranges and concentration/passive. I already have an good idea of what most of the icons will look like.
As always I welcome comments and criticism. It's easier for me to change things at this point than later when I've written dozens of cards. Just writing this post allowed me to verbalize my self-criticism and come up with icons as a solution to grab more space and add some color to the scheme.
[edit: hah, and I just noticed a typoe on the Shield entry where I accidentally lost "Damage Capacity" from "Magic +3 Damage Capacity" when messing with font sizes. Oh well I was going to have to redo it anyway.
Last edited by erik on Tue Sep 01, 2015 3:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
I like minimalist borders and 'UI' for cards that are meant to feature art so I prefer the one you have that just has text and boxes to the one with the skull and dragons on it.
You can then use a washed out background that doesn't clash with the text to give the card personality. Like how MGSV has clean, slightly translucent boxes to make the text readable but you can still tell what environment you're in:
So tech, magic, and so on cards use the same clean font and boxes but they differ in a cyborg card will have a cybernetics related background (say a bionic skull being created or a cyborg soldier displaying card function like booster jets or hidden guns) and a sorcery card will have something sorcery related in the background (say a table of talismans or a magic circle drawn into the ground or ley lines flaring in the wilderness).
That's a pretty art intensive option though. The Metal Gear Acid card game also has simple, clean UI that I like:
Last edited by OgreBattle on Tue Sep 01, 2015 5:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
Sorry for the cross-posting, but just leaving a pointer to IMOI where I'm evolving this project since that board gets a bit less love than IMHO. The Rifts conversion is on hold and instead an alternate setting with some inspiration from Rifts along with other sources.
