Is this what "power fantasy" means ?

silva · Post by **silva** » Sat Aug 15, 2015 2:41 pm

So I've heard this term used here sometimes and I think only now I came to realize what it really means.

In my recent playthrough of a Total War pc videogame, I realized the Battle AI is so dumb that, as long as I always do manual battle (instead of letting the CPU auto-resolve) I will always win no matter what (I just won a battle against an opponent triple my size). So after the initial rush of excitement for such heroic battles, Ive found myself disappointed and thinkin "What's the point ?". If a game is about battles but the AI is so dumb that you can win easily by learning the basics (believe me, Im not too far from a noob in the knowledge of game mechanics), then what's the point ?

So, making a parallel with RPGs, I imagine it should be like playing a game where you spend all this time optimizing your character through detailed resource-management and tactical choices, etc. to then see yourself winning no matter what.

Is this a normal thing in entertainment ? Some people must win at all times to feel good or reafirm her self-steem or something ? Im not against it, mind you, I just find it weird because I personally like to be challenged in games. In fact, I consider myself a little bit masochistic and like taking a beat most of the times (I find the "losing is fun" motto of games like Crusader Kings, Faster Than Light, etc. pretty exciting ).

Also, do you think this "power fantasy" quality is something that roleplaying games can have out-of-box, or you think this is something solely dependant on the players and GM ?

Pseudo Stupidity · Post by **Pseudo Stupidity** » Sat Aug 15, 2015 3:23 pm

A power fantasy is a fantasy where you have power. Kind of like how a <taboo> fantasy is a fantasy where <taboo> happens.

That's all a power fantasy is, and pretty much every RPG is one because most people don't have much power.

Leress · Post by **Leress** » Sat Aug 15, 2015 4:40 pm

Silva, it would be better if you just asked what people mean when they say "power fantasy".

Kaelik · Post by **Kaelik** » Sat Aug 15, 2015 5:05 pm

Leress wrote:Silva, it would be better if you just asked what people mean when they say "power fantasy".

But then he wouldn't get to make disparaging insults to all of us about how we want to remove all competition and thought from playing the game!!!! You monster, depriving him of the only reason he made this post.

Sakuya Izayoi · Post by **Sakuya Izayoi** » Sun Aug 16, 2015 12:04 am

Games are about making meaningful choices. The more power you have, the more meaning your choices have, so some games increase your power to create choice. D&D, for example, gives you magical abilities and martial arete in order to make it a game of choices, and not a fleeing from kobolds simulator.

If you find Total War too easy, try Civilization 4: Beyond the Sword. The AI can get pretty brutal if you crank it up.

deaddmwalking · Post by **deaddmwalking** » Sun Aug 16, 2015 4:37 pm

In real life, I depend on the income I receive from my job. I wouldn't tell my boss to fuck off even if he deserves it because I depend on the income from my job. In D&D, players routinely tell kings to 'fuck off'. It's not that there are no consequences - not even that you won't suffer for it. But you are free to do the things you wish you could do in real life. Not only are you able to do things you can't in real life (more power) the consequences are less personal.

hogarth · Post by **hogarth** » Sun Aug 16, 2015 8:42 pm

Pseudo Stupidity wrote:A power fantasy is a fantasy where you have power. Kind of like how a <taboo> fantasy is a fantasy where <taboo> happens.

That's all a power fantasy is, and pretty much every RPG is one because most people don't have much power.

TheFlatline · Post by **TheFlatline** » Mon Aug 17, 2015 2:49 am

Yeah I was going to ask "why is this a thing?" and then saw silva submitted it. That makes sense.

silva · Post by **silva** » Wed Aug 19, 2015 8:15 pm

I thought that when "power fantasy" came up in this forum, people meant to say a kind of activity that provides free gratification / without any chance to lose or similar. If thats not the case, ok.

Anyway, I think its a fair and interesting question for tabletop roleplaying in general: are there games where this kind of thing is assumed, this free gratification without any risk of losing or getting your ass kicked ? For myself, Im a proponent of "no killings in rpgs" because I think PCs loss disrupt the flow of the game (specially those games with complex character creations that take hours), but on the other hand I like to be challenged and have my ass kicked in games, specially if this asskicking will result in interesting outcomes story/drama-wise.

Dean · Post by **Dean** » Wed Aug 19, 2015 9:54 pm

silva wrote:I thought that when "power fantasy" came up in this forum, people meant to say a kind of activity that provides free gratification / without any chance to lose or similar. If thats not the case, ok.

Shut up. No you didn't. You are a blatant troll. You already made a troll thread about this after being kicked out of another thread for trolling there and posting 22 times after being told to stay out in the thread title and being told to leave the thread by three different people after multiple separate posts. You're still leading with the same troll line you lead with more than a year ago after dozens of people have patiently corrected you over and over again.

Seriously can we ban him? This is blatant trolling. No one can read the quoted sentence and not be aware you're dealing with someone who's only goal is to waste space here with disingenuous baiting.

silva · Post by **silva** » Wed Aug 19, 2015 10:14 pm

This thread is not about power fantasy really (it was a mistake on my part, if you didn't get it by now). Its about "no losing" in RPGs.

Sakuya Izayoi · Post by **Sakuya Izayoi** » Thu Aug 20, 2015 12:22 am

I die plenty in Metal Gear Rising, and that's one of the most weeaboo games that ever weeabooed. And most people have at least one death anecdote to tell about D&D.

Fantasizing about power != demanding to be coddled.

EDIT: Missed dean's post. Yeah, good idea not to perpetuate this. Original post tucked away.

Kaelik · Post by **Kaelik** » Thu Aug 20, 2015 12:35 am

I mean, don't get me wrong, I definitely called this a troll thread immediately, but Dean, way to put the work in.

Let's be clear guys, last time power fantasy came up, Silva stupid say stupid things, and everyone on this forum told him that Dark Souls is a power fantasy. And now, he posts to ask "Hey, when you guys are calling Dark Souls a Power Fantasy, do you mean that it is super easy with no chance of failure?"

Silva's troll quality is rapidly degrading.

Post by **fbmf** » Thu Aug 20, 2015 3:26 am

silva wrote:I thought that when "power fantasy" came up in this forum, people meant to say a kind of activity that provides free gratification / without any chance to lose or similar. If thats not the case, ok.

[The Great Fence Builder Speaks]
Why would you think that was the intended meaning of POWER FANTASY when it was discussed over a year ago in the thread Dean links? You are certainly free to disagree with Dean's definition, but you can't say, in good faith, that you didn't know what was meant by the term.

I'm not sure I agree with Deans definition, but a majority of the folks here use the term in that way, and you pretending you didn't know that does seem disingenuous given that it was discussed at length. I'm not willing to call it blatant trolling, but it definitely skirts the line.
[/TGFBS]

Zaranthan · Post by **Zaranthan** » Thu Aug 20, 2015 5:13 pm

Aw, come on, Fence. If this topic is "skirting", then this woman is wearing a "skirt":

TheFlatline · Post by **TheFlatline** » Thu Aug 20, 2015 7:05 pm

Zaranthan wrote:Aw, come on, Fence. If this topic is "skirting", then this woman is wearing a "skirt":

If that kind of skirting is allowed I say bring on the skirts!

RobbyPants · Post by **RobbyPants** » Fri Aug 21, 2015 1:08 pm

silva wrote:This thread is not about power fantasy really (it was a mistake on my part, if you didn't get it by now). Its about "no losing" in RPGs.

It's about you trying to use a term differently than everyone else uses it to prop up a strawman position.