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...You Lost Me
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Post by ...You Lost Me »

Orion wrote:This is consistent. When we talk about meaningful abilities, we generally mean abilities that promote meaningful choices -- abilities that can swing the game in a big way if you pull them off right. If you can already win the game by team composition, then your abilities probably aren't meaningful in that sense.
The abilities are very meaningful in that you make a choice during a pick/ban phase which determines whether you will win the game. They are also meaningful in that your level 1 choice will determine whether you will win the game. What you are talking about is a "meaningful choice", what DSM wrote was "meaningful ability". I guess it's possible that DSM doesn't english good and wrote "ability" when he meant "choice", but considering his track record I find it a lot more likely that he doesn't know what either of those terms actually mean in a MOBA context.
Last edited by ...You Lost Me on Mon Jun 01, 2015 11:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
DSMatticus wrote:Again, look at this fucking map you moron. Take your finger and trace each country's coast, then trace its claim line. Even you - and I say that as someone who could not think less of your intelligence - should be able to tell that one of these things is not like the other.
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Post by DSMatticus »

Pseudo wrote:4. It is nearly impossible to impact the game alone. Your abilities generally don't matter all that much (the damage ones tickle, the CC ones hardly CC, ok the heals and shields are fucking RIDICULOUS but that's the most boring way to impact a game) and plays don't feel very impactful. I've felt like I turned around a fight exactly once and that's because the other team was dumb and I was a fat tank who had an AoE CC ultimate that works if the other team stands still for a few seconds, which they did.
I'm not reading YLM's post, but since Orion quoted it the review actually says that because abilities do piss all (and talents are either worthless or obvious), teamcomp decides the winners before the game is even played.
Pseudo wrote:DSM hasn't mentioned how my explanation of the early game being meaningful is wrong.
The only arguments you've made are "without the early game how will we know who starts the midgame with an advantage?" and "I've never seen a split push or any game that wasn't 100% teamfights." They're laughably shitty arguments.

HotS plays out the way it does for a lot of reasons. Because the rewards for the objectives are crazy good, making an intelligent decision to cede them and do something else isn't really an option. Because it's a bloated slogfest, stacking numbers together is simply more important than skillful play, so grouping is necessary. These aren't problems that relate to anything being discussed. It's rather obvious that they aren't, in fact.
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Post by Pseudo Stupidity »

DSMatticus wrote: The only arguments you've made are "without the early game how will we know who starts the midgame with an advantage?" and "I've never seen a split push or any game that wasn't 100% teamfights." They're laughably shitty arguments.
You do know the entire point of the game is to get an advantage and win, right? That's like saying "everything but destroying the nexus is stupid, because all the other things do is let us know who starts the Nexus destroying portion of the game with an advantage."

Also, you have ignored my argument of "the laning phase is fun and interesting, it uses a different and riskier style of play because it is less punishing to screw up or do something crazy." Why remove something that people enjoy? You thinking laning is boring doesn't mean shit.

Laning is obviously also important because a midgame without one team being ahead, even by a little bit, is often a slog until that one giant teamfight happens (IF it ever happens). A huge part of HotS problems is it's a giant midgame slog.


I'm also curious about the bit where you imagined I said split pushing isn't a thing. I have said that split pushing is a thing that, wait for it, you do if you have an advantage or disadvantage! If there is no advantage/disadvantage you don't fucking split push because losing a teamfight is so bad that gaining a turret isn't worth it 99% of the time. Perfectly matched teams don't split push unless the comps are very different or somebody has a teleport advantage. You usually see the winning team splitting to pull 2 people out of the other team or the losing team splitting so they can respond with objectives.
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Post by MGuy »

...You Lost Me wrote:
MGuy wrote:Do you have an example of a HotS game where the first half of the game isn't just a bunch of waiting? An early game still exists in HotS and without a laning phase there's a waiting phase in its place because taking risks first means you're likely to get killed first. However, DSM, if you're so ready to believe that people who don't think that's a good idea have it all wrong then where is the game that does what you suggest and is good?
DSM probably hasn't played HotS, nor has he actually understood the review of it. He thinks there's one objective and abilities are not meaningful, when the review says abilities decide the winners "before the game is even played" and references there being multiple objectives several times.

The argument is almost perfect OS plus maybe a little of one of the 5e defenders. "bounded accuracy removing last hitting is totally fine if you do it right, I swear to god. please stop making fun of me."
The more interesting thing about DSM here is that I made no argument for or against League style laning. Just that HOTS trades laning for waiting. The review already indicates that concentrating on objectives inspires boring okay that leads to a bunch of waiting. Maybe i missed a part or two where instead of yelling feverishly about the status quo he offer up a decent alternative but his reaction to my post seems to imply that not only doesn't he have a workable alternative but that he wants to oddly shame people for asking. How dare i ask him if he has a better alternative!
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Post by DSMatticus »

Pseudo wrote:You do know the entire point of the game is to get an advantage and win, right? That's like saying "everything but destroying the nexus is stupid, because all the other things do is let us know who starts the Nexus destroying portion of the game with an advantage."
You're implying that somehow laning is the only part of the game in which you can acquire a relative advantage. You're setting up a false dichotomy of "keep the early game or nothing but nexus," and it's exactly as stupid as it sounds. "What the fuck is Baron? Never heard of it."

Look, I know you're not arguing in good faith. Your arguments are complete ass and judging from the shit you post in the LoL thread you have actually played the game at all, which is more than sufficient to understand how stupid your arguments are. Fine, you like laning. But that completely subjective statement of preference is the only not outright fucking moronic thing you've managed to say in defense of it. All the rest has been apparently deliberate derp in order to... I don't actually fucking know. Is this a fanboy thing?
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Post by MGuy »

In game Z most of the mechanics in the early game are centered around doing A. Doing A is fun and popular and cool for most of the people who play the game and understand it. A also helps to determine (but doesn't lock ins tone) how the rest of the game plays out. Early advantage in doing A well will help mid and late game.

In game Y instead of doing A in early game you spend most of your time waiting to do something because going for objectives is dangerous and risky and you'd be fighting at a disadvantage by doing it. So that's not really so good. Games do go quicker but are basically decided at Team Comp.

DSM: I don't like doing A. That shit is balls. I think that if we did 'something else' it would be better because I don't see the point in doing A. In fact we should just cut out early game all together!

Other people: The point of doing A is because it is interesting and there's a lot of depth, complexity, and blah blah blah.

DSM: GROGNARDS! GROGNARDS ALL OF YOU HARGLEBLARGLE! HOW DARE YOU STEP ON AN IDEA YOU HAVEN'T EVEN TRIED!!!!!!!!111111!!!<-Excitement.

Me: Well do you have an example of anything else? All that's here is what HotS does and that's (as has been discussed) ballsacks.

DSM: Hurr hurr dumb grognard so stuck on League can't accept any alternatives!

This is the state of the argument right now dear readers. DSM is very much against the most popular style of MOBA play, has no alternatives, but wants to make sure to shit on anyone who points out to him why its good and cool.
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Post by GreatGreyShrike »

I am mostly a DotA 2 guy. In that specific game, I personally find the laning stage of the game is very fun to play, interesting to execute, and leads to a lot of interesting moments and fun. It also contributes a lot to Dota's hero diversity (by allowing heros to be extremely strong at early laning and weak otherwise, or vice versa, as a balancing mechanic) and adds interesting aspects to drafting - picking good lanes as well as good teamfight as well as considerations like splitpush and ganking potential and the like all add to the game's interesting facets. On laning's own merits, I am happy DotA has the early laning phase it does, and would be saddened by it's removal.

I don't play enough of LoL, HotS, or other games of the genre to accurately judge the worth of their respective laning phases.

For what it's worth, there have been other games in the Moba genre (more or less) which have eschewed having an easily identifiable laning phase such as DotA or LoL has. A few suggestions, and thoughts on each:

- Bloodline Champions. Dead game, interesting concept: purely moba-style fights with no real progression, levelling, etc. Died out from lack of players. I was never very interested or pulled into it, and the shortness of matches coupled with the lack of grand strategy made it less than enthralling to me - never really got into it enough to judge it well.

- Awesomenauts. Simple-ish game, early laning is not really similar to League or Dota 2 because of short distances and tower proximity and early objectives being so vital and extremely quick rotations from jungle. This game had a few major flaws: lack of depth in long-term strategy or tactics or anything like that, inability to coordinate effectively with allies leading to 'every man for himself' play instead of teamwork, and horrible netcode with no easy way to get on good dedicated servers coupled with a game that required extremely fast responses/reflexes to work.

- The original Aeon of Strife and many similar Starcraft 1 custom games that the genre has it's ultimate roots in, had extremely limited laning phase style stuff, because frankly the engine didn't support character advancement very well at all.

So it is possible to make a game at least loosely within the MobA genre that has no or very little traditional laning.

I suggest that if anyone is really interested in making a Moba work without laning, and believes that such a thing would be a drastic improvement that would sweep away all other Mobas in enjoyability, that you consider actually doing the hard work of making such a game. One particular way might be that all signs point to Source 2 coming out quite soon with extensive support for custom games, custom lobbies, and etc run through Dota 2, so even if you have no skill as an artist and only limited skill as a programmer you could conceivably make something using other people's art assets and game engine; this entire genre evolved ultimately from custom games in Starcraft I and Warcraft 3, and going back to that style of distribution/gamemaking might make a lot of sense if you think you're ideas have the potential to make Moba games more enjoyable but you don't have a few million dollars to shell out for basic programming, servers, art assets, etc.
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Post by ishy »

DSMatticus wrote:HotS plays out the way it does for a lot of reasons. Because the rewards for the objectives are crazy good, making an intelligent decision to cede them and do something else isn't really an option. Because it's a bloated slogfest, stacking numbers together is simply more important than skillful play, so grouping is necessary. These aren't problems that relate to anything being discussed. It's rather obvious that they aren't, in fact.
Have you ever played HotS? Because in my experience, everything you said, is wrong. Well other than grouping up being necessary multiple times through a match.
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Post by Pseudo Stupidity »

DSMatticus wrote: You're implying that somehow laning is the only part of the game in which you can acquire a relative advantage. You're setting up a false dichotomy of "keep the early game or nothing but nexus," and it's exactly as stupid as it sounds. "What the fuck is Baron? Never heard of it."
Watch me quote you in context, you might learn something from it.

First, you quoted me responding to your statement that the whole point of the early game is to get an advantage. Let me put my response in context for you, since you so kindly took it out of context since you're a fuckwit.

My response was that the whole point of the game is to get an advantage so that you can win. This is true of pretty much every game in existence. In soccer you get an advantage by moving a ball up a field so you get closer to scoring a goal. In chess you get an advantage by taking your opponents pieces and getting a better position. League measures advantage in gold, towers, and objectives.

Saying "the point of a section of the game is getting an advantage, thus it is dumb" is a deeply stupid statement because it betrays your lack of understanding of how a game works. "Why should soccer be anything but a shootout?" you ask, wondering why everyone is laughing at you. Note: Shootout soccer would have shorter games and focus on the thing people get most excited over (goaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaals!). That means it's better, right?

Note (and I really shouldn't need to explain this): What I did there is called hyperbole. A better example would be you wanting to skip to corner kicks 100% of the time because you think midfield is boring.


DSMatticus wrote:Look, I know you're not arguing in good faith. Your arguments are complete ass and judging from the shit you post in the LoL thread you have actually played the game at all, which is more than sufficient to understand how stupid your arguments are. Fine, you like laning. But that completely subjective statement of preference is the only not outright fucking moronic thing you've managed to say in defense of it. All the rest has been apparently deliberate derp in order to... I don't actually fucking know. Is this a fanboy thing?
This is the thing you do when you're losing an argument. Rather than respond to any points with an actual argument you whine and say "NOBODY IS ARGUING IN GOOD FAITH. WHY CAN'T EVERYONE BE SMART AND CHERRY PICK LIKE ME?" Either argue against my split pushing statements or fuck off. Argue against my "everything is getting an advantage until the nexus goes down, the form of the advantage doesn't matter. Why is laning bad but other parts good?" question. Make an argument against midgame being a waiting game without a lead on either side. Christ, go whole hog and say HotS is good. Even Maglag is making more substantive posts than you are and he posts like somebody dumped a bunch of I-hate-MOBA memes into a blender and then runs away.

tl;dr: Say something of substance or fuck off the thread.
Last edited by Pseudo Stupidity on Tue Jun 02, 2015 1:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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If you wanted to participate in a conversation, you've lost that right. You are a non-human now. You are over and cancelled. No concern of yours can ever matter to any member of the human race ever again.
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Post by ...You Lost Me »

I have never seen DSM double down on this much dumb before. I just don't understand, what's wrong with being wrong about a thing and needing to listen to people who are less wrong than you? We do this all the time in other threads.
DSMatticus wrote:Again, look at this fucking map you moron. Take your finger and trace each country's coast, then trace its claim line. Even you - and I say that as someone who could not think less of your intelligence - should be able to tell that one of these things is not like the other.
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Post by DSMatticus »

Pseudo_Stupidity wrote:Having a laning phase where people can get ahead and behind is important to make the midgame fucking interesting. Setting yourself up for the midgame is important, and you do it by focusing gold and ganks onto certain champions, grouping for early objectives, or trying to set certain people on the other team behind.
DSMatticus wrote:Okay, you are not really arguing for an early game of any specific form, you are just arguing that there should should exist a part of the game where people make choices and maybe take risks with the intention of gaining an advantage later in the game. No shit, but people are already still doing that when laning ends.
Pseudo_Stupidity wrote:Saying "the point of a section of the game is getting an advantage, thus it is dumb" is a deeply stupid statement
See where you talk about how laning is good because it has [all these things]? And then I reminded you that [all those things] are still happening into the midgame? That's not cherrypicking. That's not taking you out of the context. Your actual argument against removing the early game was that competing over advantages is important, and I agreed, but reminded you that teams spend the entire game competing over advantages so what the fuck is your point? You have deceitfully replaced that with "the early game is boring because competing over advantages is boring," which is nothing like what I said and is in fact a fucking strawman. Not only are you the sort of dishonest asshole willing to say blatantly retarded things in the hopes they won't get shat on, you are the sort of dishonest asshole willing to straight up fucking lie about what other people have said.

But other than being a fucking liar, your argument is that "nobody makes plays or take risks in a tied up midgame." Do you really think that warrants a response? The easy answer is how long do you expect things to remain perfectly tied up? That's probably zero fucking seconds, because teamcomp matters and different heroes lend themself to different strategies. But even if somehow two identical teams mirror matched eachother and played the exact same play book, simple chance is going to kick in eventually and give someone a slight upper hand and then plays are going to diverge in response.

Outside the rather trivial observation that there will never be a stably symmetrical League game ever, it's still fucking stupid. What, do you think everyone's just going to say "we're not behind. If we're not behind, we don't need the buffs. Or even to try to punish the enemy if they go for them. Or do anything at all." Yes, taking risks is risky, but League does not actually have a problem with encouraging cripplingly conservative play.
Last edited by DSMatticus on Tue Jun 02, 2015 6:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Pseudo Stupidity »

DSMatticus wrote: See where you talk about how laning is good because it has [all these things]? And then I reminded you that [all those things] are still happening into the midgame? That's not cherrypicking. That's not taking you out of the context. Your actual argument against removing the early game was that competing over advantages is important, and I agreed, but reminded you that teams spend the entire game competing over advantages so what the fuck is your point? You have deceitfully replaced that with "the early game is boring because competing over advantages is boring," which is nothing like what I said and is in fact a fucking strawman. Not only are you the sort of dishonest asshole willing to say blatantly retarded things in the hopes they won't get shat on, you are the sort of dishonest asshole willing to straight up fucking lie about what other people have said.

But other than being a fucking liar, your argument is that "nobody makes plays or take risks in a tied up midgame." Do you really think that warrants a response? The easy answer is how long do you expect things to remain perfectly tied up? That's probably zero fucking seconds, because teamcomp matters and different heroes lend themself to different strategies. But even if somehow two identical teams mirror matched eachother and played the exact same play book, simple chance is going to kick in eventually and give someone a slight upper hand and then plays are going to diverge in response.
I don't think you understand risk vs reward. Teams really do not take big risks in midgame because objectives are dangerous. Taking dragon is dangerous, pushing up against a turret is dangerous, going for Baron is suicidal, even walking into the enemy jungle without wards up is a risky thing to do.

If the game started at, I don't know, 5k gold and level 9 for each player (midgame is generally when the first tier of turrets have gone down for a team, rather than some gold/level value) you would have a lot of posturing around objectives without anything really happening. The reason for this is midgame teamfights are dangerous and can just straight up lose you the game. You only take things if it's a good bet that you'll get it, and dead even teams outside of teamcomp makes it risky to do anything aside from, you guessed it posture around the most important objective.

If you start with midgame power you are going to get HotS style team standoffs because nobody wants to cede the objective OR go for it because fighting at a disadvantage is suicide. Even HotS knows this and so they make you pretend to lane for like, 2 minutes each game. Sure it doesn't do anything, but at least it stops you from immediately running to the first objective to stare at the other team.


Why should anyone fight at a disadvantage in midgame? You need to answer that with something that isn't "because it's fun." If your answer is "teamcomps will decide so one team is already at an advantage!" then congratulations, go play HotS where you can pick to win. Teamcomps should matter, but having them decide the game from the start doesn't make for a fantastic game.


Explain what drives a midgame fight in dsMOBAtticus. You have not proposed a solution, just nebulous objectives that will spontaneously create action out of inaction. You know, what HotS did and proved is garbage.
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If you wanted to participate in a conversation, you've lost that right. You are a non-human now. You are over and cancelled. No concern of yours can ever matter to any member of the human race ever again.
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Post by ishy »

I know I should know better, but seriously stop talking about HotS Pseudo Stupidity, everything you say about it is wrong.
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Post by Pseudo Stupidity »

ishy wrote:I know I should know better, but seriously stop talking about HotS Pseudo Stupidity, everything you say about it is wrong.
That is convincing evidence. Tell me how you totally splitpush and give up an objective like this competitive game where one team tries to push instead of go for objectives and gets shit on. I hadn't seen a competitive game before and looked it up in case I was wrong but...nope. The game is exactly what I imagined it would be at the top level.

Watch people deathball everywhere. Watch people walk past multiple members of the enemy team to beat on a structure that fights them and not even lose a hero. Watch objectives determine the game entirely. Watch slow-ass teamfights (unless a massive lead is had).

Really now, how am I wrong? Because top level play seems to agree with me here.
sandmann wrote:
Zak S wrote:I'm not a dick, I'm really nice.
Zak S wrote:(...) once you have decided that you will spend any part of your life trolling on the internet, you forfeit all rights as a human.If you should get hit by a car--no-one should help you. If you vote on anything--your vote should be thrown away.

If you wanted to participate in a conversation, you've lost that right. You are a non-human now. You are over and cancelled. No concern of yours can ever matter to any member of the human race ever again.
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Post by ishy »

Pseudo Stupidity wrote:That is convincing evidence.
The reason I said: "I know I should know better", was that I was actually typing up some stuff, before I realised I was talking to you.
I saw how you responded to DSM (strawmanning him, trying to redefine what DSM was talking about, doubling down on stupidity) and I know what you've posted before.
And I see you're already trying to force my hand here. Arguing with you is an exercise in frustration and I'm not going to do it.
It should suffice to say, that you are clueless about HotS; you even know you're clueless about HotS. So please stop talking about things you don't know anything about.
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Post by ...You Lost Me »

ishy wrote:Is there some noob guide to MOBAs, that explains things like 'botlane'?
ishy, a week later, wrote:I know I should know better, but seriously stop talking about HotS Pseudo Stupidity, everything you say about it is wrong.
ishy again wrote:It should suffice to say, that you are clueless about HotS; you even know you're clueless about HotS. So please stop talking about things you don't know anything about.
Holy what. Are you like one of those people who takes a PSYCH 101 course and then starts telling his friends what their personality disorders are?
Last edited by ...You Lost Me on Wed Jun 03, 2015 6:56 pm, edited 3 times in total.
DSMatticus wrote:Again, look at this fucking map you moron. Take your finger and trace each country's coast, then trace its claim line. Even you - and I say that as someone who could not think less of your intelligence - should be able to tell that one of these things is not like the other.
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Post by Pseudo Stupidity »

ishy wrote: And I see you're already trying to force my hand here. Arguing with you is an exercise in frustration and I'm not going to do it.
It should suffice to say, that you are clueless about HotS; you even know you're clueless about HotS. So please stop talking about things you don't know anything about.
Yes, I'm trying to force your hand into revealing the reason you think my analysis of HotS isn't accurate. I even backed up my analysis with a video of the two supposed best teams on a map that actually features multiple worthwhile objectives being up at the same time. Did you watch it, or do you not want to see how full of shit you are? It was exactly what I called outside of the first 2 minutes, because I did not expect people to already be deathballing at that time.

Edit on strawmanning: You can't strawman DSM's non-argument. He just thinks games should start at midgame and ignores everything said against it. People will just fight because they want to. Duh.
Last edited by Pseudo Stupidity on Wed Jun 03, 2015 7:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
sandmann wrote:
Zak S wrote:I'm not a dick, I'm really nice.
Zak S wrote:(...) once you have decided that you will spend any part of your life trolling on the internet, you forfeit all rights as a human.If you should get hit by a car--no-one should help you. If you vote on anything--your vote should be thrown away.

If you wanted to participate in a conversation, you've lost that right. You are a non-human now. You are over and cancelled. No concern of yours can ever matter to any member of the human race ever again.
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Post by Draculmaulkee »

I enjoy playing ARAM in LoL. While this is much simpler than the other available game modes, it does cater to players who enjoy the teamfighting aspect of the game more than the laning phase. Perhaps HoTS implements this poorly (I have no knowledge of it beyond this thread), but a MOBA doesn't require a laning phase to be "fun".

Also, several people have mentioned how HoTS games are decided on champion select. This may or may not be true, but character selection in LoL games also greatly affects the outcome of the game. It's still a rock, paper, scissors paradigm, just with secondary factors influencing the outcome.
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Post by icyshadowlord »

I'm confused by how amused I am playing HoTS after I stopped playing LoL and DotA 2.

Then again, I'll probably get bored of it as well and just stop playing MOBAs altogether at this rate.
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Post by Pseudo Stupidity »

Draculmaulkee wrote:I enjoy playing ARAM in LoL. While this is much simpler than the other available game modes, it does cater to players who enjoy the teamfighting aspect of the game more than the laning phase. Perhaps HoTS implements this poorly (I have no knowledge of it beyond this thread), but a MOBA doesn't require a laning phase to be "fun".

Also, several people have mentioned how HoTS games are decided on champion select. This may or may not be true, but character selection in LoL games also greatly affects the outcome of the game. It's still a rock, paper, scissors paradigm, just with secondary factors influencing the outcome.
I enjoy ARAM too if I'm feeling up for it, but the fun of ARAM is that the only way forward is teamfighting. There's nothing to trade and nowhere to really get picks, you just fight all the time because the map is a single lane and you can't even go back. ARAM is silly fun that isn't meant to be balanced or nuanced, HotS is probably meant to be more than that.

Champion select is always going to be important, but it's far from what determines a game in LoL (and DotA from my limited time playing it). You can fall behind and lose in laning, throw by splitting at the wrong time or facechecking, or even just play a teamfight wrong and have the game suddenly swing against you. There's also the difficultly of knowing what comp is better in those games. In LoL is a poke comp better than a split push comp? Is a split push comp better than a teamfighting comp? What about a skirmish comp or a pick comp? Since there are a lot of different ways to approach the game it's hard to say one comp is outright better than another outside of choices with no synergy at all.

I could see how if you play mostly ARAM you see teamcomp as the ultimate thing, and that's because it is in ARAM (and why ARAM selects your champion for you and includes special items to help mitigate the dominant strategy).

HotS is a lot like Super Smash Bros Brawl. It's a game where mistakes are really hard to make and the optimal decision (group, stay grouped, never stop grouping) is obvious from the start. Picking a character in SSBB often determines the game because it's tough to make mistakes with the game's speed and lack of options. I could try to approach my opponent, but I'm better off hanging out and waiting for them to make the first move so I'm just going to hang out near them and punish them because shielding is better than everything else. It's like rock paper scissors but the paper is made of titanium, the rock is origami and the scissors are made of lo mein. Both people stand near each other throwing paper until somebody finally sees the chance to make a shittier option work (or the game times out, holy shit competitive Brawl was a nightmare because THIS WAS A COMMON THING. They implemented a rule that limited ledge grabs because the dominant strategy used to be getting one hit in and then hanging on the edge as Metaknight and using his incredible attacks combined with edge invincibility to time the game out).

Picking a bad comp in HotS means you lose unless the other team does something tremendously stupid because they will be better at the only thing that matters and the only thing that matters happens at a slow speed and features a lack of high-impact plays that makes it difficult to screw up. Yes, your highest damage champion could sprint into the enemy team on their own instead of posturing near the objective, but that would never be a good idea so why the fuck would they do that?

It really is tough to misplay in HotS outside of not picking the best possible talent (not likely because THESE ARE OBVIOUS) because you can easily survive the mistakes that would get you killed in LoL or DotA. When making a reasonable mistake doesn't have an impact and making a play doesn't have an impact you're stuck with a game where the team that sticks together hardest wins. If both teams stick together equally hard teamcomp dictates who wins at that point, and so teamcomp usually dictates who wins.

As a final note: I keep seeing ads for this game. What the fuck? I never should have clicked that Dunkey link.
Last edited by Pseudo Stupidity on Fri Jun 26, 2015 7:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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