Blades in the Dark

[Kaelik]

Assassin's Creed is the open world Prince of Persia. That is all it ever has been or will be.

[TheFlatline]

I don't believe he had its first exposition to the series with the new Thief. By the looks of it, he seems an old time fan.

Also, ha anyone take a look at the last Assassin Creed ? I think its passed in Victorian London and looks pretty cool. Is the series considered good ? I always see it bashed when compared to other stealth games like Thiefs, Hitman, Splinter Cell, Metal Gear, Dishonored, etc.

FTFA:

"If I had to guess, I'd say it's the impending release of the new Thief video game."

Non-snarky answer to AssCreed: The series is getting long in the tooth. Probably the 2nd and 3rd games were arguably at their best (the Renaissance games). I'd put Black Flag over them because they have an awesome age of sail engine going there and you play pirate, but it's such a divergent themed game that it's hard to put it on a spectrum with the other games. The assassin's creed thing is almost an afterthought in Black Flag.

It's one of the original 3d parkour games out there, and as such is showing some age in it's design philosophy that hasn't been updated much. Shadows of Mordor arguably does AssCreed better than AssCreed by keeping the tempo up and the action more frenetic.

Also, being compared to Prince of Persia is hardly a bad thing, but it's not particularly accurate because the PoP is more platforming than anything else, whereas AssCreed is more freerunning.

I checked out at Black Flag but you can pick up AssCreed 2, AssCreed 2 Brotherhood, and Black Flag pretty cheap now. It's worth a go. Don't pay too much attention to the modern day plot because it's weird, boring, involves mostly uninteresting characters, and the full story is buried under hundreds of arbitrary collectibles.

[Kaelik]

Also, being compared to Prince of Persia is hardly a bad thing, but it's not particularly accurate because the PoP is more platforming than anything else, whereas AssCreed is more freerunning.

The implication was Prince of Persia + Lazy Level Design.

[TheFlatline]

Also, being compared to Prince of Persia is hardly a bad thing, but it's not particularly accurate because the PoP is more platforming than anything else, whereas AssCreed is more freerunning.

The implication was Prince of Persia + Lazy Level Design.

More like POP + Shitty Platforming Controls. I can't count how many times I tried to jump from one roof to another and Ezio decided to pole-vault off the roof at a 45 degree angle from what I wanted and swan dive to the pavement below. Otherwise you just hold down the run button and point in the direction you want to go in and freerun that way. Not really similar to PoP's platforming.

AssCreed Brotherhood took place in a pretty reasonable recreation of Rome circa 15th century. I remember assassinating someone by leaping through the Oculus of the Pantheon. That was one of the cooler moments of the game.

[silva]

So AC is just a fighting-platformer. That's disappointing, as the blurb always made me see it like as a sort of Hitman AC or something.

Back to the Blades front, I've found the Stress mechanic a refreshing take from Hit Points, due to its manageable nature and also due the fact there is certain thresholds that, when reached, means it can't go back, as the end is coming slowly to the character.

[silva]

Hey Orion, is that you ?

[Aryxbez]

(Hint: Orion's appearance is actually on his Username profile picture).

[Orion]

@Frank re: Apocalypse:

That's why literally every single time someone on this board has said that I have been overly harsh to Apocalypse World they have been literally unable to name check a single part of the actual game that they really use in its intended methodology and context.

How many times do I have to say this before I get to drop the mic?

I've thought about it, and you win this one. I probably do not use Apocalypse World in its intended methodology and context. Also, I am starting to reconsider my claim that Apocalypse World is a "good product," while I figure out what I think it means for a gamebook to be a "good product." Thinking back on my experiences with Apocalypse World, I would say that there's really only one reason I have strongly positive feelings about it: it's one of the easiest RPGs to get people to actually show up and play. Not all of those people have even read the book beforehand, although some have. I'm not certain whether that counts as a quality of the product or not.

When I saw the classes are good, I basically means three things:

• Mayor, Gang Boss, Cult Leader, Wheeler-Dealer, Healer, Telepath, Technopath, Bard, Rogue, Fighter, Driver is a pretty good class list. One or more is going to "pop" for most players as an attractive choice that speeds chargen, and the first half all do a good job of generating story, which is backed up by decently good random story mechanics.
• Selecting from stat arrays is faster than point buy and just as good. Starting characters are very narrow, but this speed chargen and makes the first session predictable. Regret is minimized because it's pretty easy to buy other classes later.
• There are actually a lot of interesting abilities which aren't +1 to anything. I like Lost (call a characters name, make them show up near you), Bonefeel (insert your character, with useful equipment, into any ongoing scene), Frenzy (compel a mob to disperse, bring you people, bring you gifts, or just go nuts), Hypnotise (force a character not to act against you until they "pay off" the hypnotism by doing you favors they regard as worthy, In-Brain Puppet Strings (implant a post-hypnotic command backed up by threat of brain damage), and Visions of Death (declare one NPC to live and one to die during a big fight scene)

[silva]

- There are actually a lot of interesting abilities which aren't +1 to anything. I like Lost (call a characters name, make them show up near you), Bonefeel (insert your character, with useful equipment, into any ongoing scene), Frenzy (compel a mob to disperse, bring you people, bring you gifts, or just go nuts), Hypnotise (force a character not to act against you until they "pay off" the hypnotism by doing you favors they regard as worthy, In-Brain Puppet Strings (implant a post-hypnotic command backed up by threat of brain damage), and Visions of Death (declare one NPC to live and one to die during a big fight scene)

These, among others, are the exact kind of abilities Ive cited before that work against your notion of "single-GM-authorship", as they are used by players to change the gamestate/status-quo, forcing the GM to adapt and react to their agency and choice.

With all due respect, but it seems to me you simply didnt run the game as intended, or you dont grasp the actual effect these mechanics have on gameplay.

[Atmo]

I'm not certain whether that counts as a quality of the product or not.

If it's the only thing you showed to them, then no, quality isn't a factor here.
If they did looked for other games and stick with this because "that's the only one we didn't had a quarrel over rules", then it's because it is their last try at the genre.

These, among others, are the exact kind of abilities Ive cited before that work against your notion of "single-GM-authorship", as they are used by players to change the gamestate/status-quo, forcing the GM to adapt and react to their agency and choice.

With all due respect, but it seems to me you simply didnt run the game as intended, or you dont grasp the actual effect these mechanics have on gameplay.

Because he isn't a puppet of the developers: he's using the game as he wants, not like a mindless doll.

[silva]

Because he isn't a puppet of the developers: he's using the game as he wants, not like a mindless doll.

Saying this is the same as playing chess and saying "I wont move my Bishop diagonally because I'm not a mindless doll". Which is bullshit. If a given game's instruction manual says its intended to be played in a certain way, there is no point in discussing - you play as the author intended or you're not playing the game at all.

Further, even if you don't follow the directive rules, the procedural rules cited above will give power to the players change the gamestate/status-quo regardless, which, again, would only make attempts at single-authorship by the GM a fruitless endeavor.

[Atmo]

Because he isn't a puppet of the developers: he's using the game as he wants, not like a mindless doll.

Saying this is the same as playing chess and saying "I wont move my Bishop diagonally because I'm not a mindless doll". Which is bullshit. If a given game's instruction manual says its intended to be played in a certain way, there is no point in discussing - you play as the author intended or you're not playing the game at all.

Further, even if you don't follow the directive rules, the procedural rules cited above will give power to the players change the gamestate/status-quo regardless, which, again, would only make attempts at single-authorship by the GM a fruitless endeavor.

Wow, he cited Chess... as a Role-Playing Game.

I'm trying to come with something to say but I'm laughing too hard. Come with a real answer and maybe I'll consider a counter-answer.

[Leress]

He didn't cite it as a role-playing game, but it is still a bad example to use.

[Atmo]

He didn't cite it as a role-playing game, but it is still a bad example to use.

Yep. I'm just giving him hope. With R. Capital R.

[silva]

Atmo, I didn't mean to say chess is a role playing game. What I meant to say is that any game - from chess to netrunner to Xcom to Apocalypse World - has specific rules whose authors created with specific agendas and goals in mind. Ignoring those - be in chess or in apocalypse world - is an error, as you wont be playing the game as envisioned by the author. And at that point its debatable if you're playing the same game anymore.

In the specific case of Apocalypse World, the author explains that clearly in the book: " this game has a specific way to be played, and its like this... Deviate from it and you're not playing the game as intended, and the resulting experience may be dissonant to what I had in mind when created it".

So, in this sense, AW is not your traditional role playing game that works like a toolbox which tools you use how to see fit. Its more akin to indie games like Dogs in the Vineyard, Mountain Witch, Danger Patrol, Sorcerer, etc.

If that's not a clear and honest enough answer, I don't know what is. I have difficulty in engaging in the kind of sarcastic and insulting tone that's used by some users here so, if you was expecting that, I'm sorry to disappoint.

[Kaelik]

Just remember, it is an error to play Apocalypse World without people being raped. Because Vincent Baker made his "directive" and "procedural" rules with rape happening a bunch in mind, and if you fail to have rape, you are ignoring his rules, and you are playing wrong!

[Foxwarrior]

Is having people jump onto large beasts a suitable substitute?

[Orion]

Where are people getting the rape thing from? I literally don't remember a single reference to rape in the book. Well, apart from mind-rape. Not only that, but someone on the forum asked him about rape and the "sex moves" and he said that rape probably doesn't count as sex.

[Atmo]

See? That's how someone uses hope. With R.

Where are people getting the rape thing from? I literally don't remember a single reference to rape in the book. Well, apart from mind-rape. Not only that, but someone on the forum asked him about rape and the "sex moves" and he said that rape probably doesn't count as sex.

I think that example where a woman adventurer risks being found out by a novice sentry could be included in this example.

Boy find her, she freaks out, jumps at the boy, drag him to a bush, proceed to rape his brains out, and go on with her mission while the boy cries his lost virginity away.

[Kaelik]

Where are people getting the rape thing from? I literally don't remember a single reference to rape in the book. Well, apart from mind-rape. Not only that, but someone on the forum asked him about rape and the "sex moves" and he said that rape probably doesn't count as sex.

I haven't read the books. I do remember an example involving someone using their ability to add stuff to a scene being used to add a fucking gangbang. Given by silva as an example of that. And allegedly from the rulebook/Vincent Baker.

[silva]

Yep, there is no rape mention in the book whatsoever.

Atmo, I'm waiting your counter-response.

[Leress]

Where are people getting the rape thing from? I literally don't remember a single reference to rape in the book. Well, apart from mind-rape. Not only that, but someone on the forum asked him about rape and the "sex moves" and he said that rape probably doesn't count as sex.

I haven't read the books. I do remember an example involving someone using their ability to add stuff to a scene being used to add a fucking gangbang. Given by silva as an example of that. And allegedly from the rulebook/Vincent Baker.

Here is the post:

http://www.tgdmb.com/viewtopic.php?p=437452
---

I will give my own counter response, just right now I am dealing with a number of kids.

[silva]

Leress, you do realize that example was created by me, and not the game author, right ?

[Leress]

Leress, you do realize that example was created by me, and not the game author, right ?

I know that, but it was to address exactly where Kaliek's taught came from and I linked to the thread so people can see it in context.

[silva]

Leress:

This blog post just reminded me that the Skinner can force love (homo) attraction upon people both on character creation (during initial Hx setup) and during play.

http://killscreendaily.com/articles/i-f ... end-world/