Pathfinder homebrew and novel resource schedules.

[DSMatticus]

Beguilers now have at will mysteries.

Observation: The original plan was to drop levelled spell slots entirely and just give preparation-based characters a number of slots to use preparing whatever they wanted. The problem is that that means characters like the wizard leap frog past non-prep characters like the sorcerer into each new tier all at once, which is not a thing that should happen. So... that will need some rethinking.

I kind of want to do a "replacement" thing where low level spell slots get replaced with higher level ones to help keep the overall number down, but I'm worried it'd be a little complicated. Then again, in the end, it's all just gonna be a table you refer to each time you level up, so I guess it doesn't really matter.

[8d8]

Druid (and this is @Echoes, too): Spirits come in lesser (1), greater (7), and primordial (13). The abilities within a spirit are also slightly levelled to fill the gap. The current idea is that when you hit greater you can force a reroll (must take the second result), and when you hit primordial you roll twice and take both.

The design seems solid enough, but the terminology needs work. What's the fluff?
Lesser spirits are young and more impulsive, while the older spirits guide themselves to where they can be best used?
Or lesser spirits have less control over themselves and get used against their will, and greater spirits can deny their use when their use would be inappropriate?
Or is it that lesser spirits are weaker, greater spirits are stronger, and the spirit-user has to have training to use the greater spirits, which incidentally includes the training required to better select spirits?

Regardless, "lesser" and "greater" are relative terms while "primordial" (aside from being a mouthful) is specific to a concept. It's like saying "low gear, high gear, fashionable gear." It lacks a unifying concept.

Here's an idea to consider, in case you want one:
It is hard to attune oneself to spirits, that's why only shamans see spirits and you do not. The first spirits a shaman sees are the wild, raving spirits who roam without purpose, desire, or tether. These spirits are all around and are unavoidable. When first learning to use a spirit the shaman simply uses the closest raving spirit. As the shaman increases in ability, he or she learns to seek out spirits who maintain some sense of self, and exist in the spirit world as individuals. These calm spirits come to the aid of the shaman at times, lending their power willingly, for their own reasons. The most difficult spirits to detect and interact with are the primal spirits, the spirits so ancient that the world and all life was built using their power. Only the most powerful shamans have seen the primal spirits, and only some of them have been aided by these ineffable forces.

Therefore: (1) raving spirits, (7) calm spirits, (13) primal spirits.

[DSMatticus]

The current format I'm using is shared across the monk, shaman, and warlock. The monk has styles, greater styles, and enlightened styles. The shaman has spirits, greater spirits, and primordial spirits. The warlock has pacts, greater pacts, and soul pacts (soul being a placeholder); I've dropped the lesser. I don't actually have a problem with the final set of abilities having a special fluff prefix instead of another prefix that means "like the last thing, but better." If anything, having the special fluff prefix (and being the only one to have a special fluff prefix) makes them stand out more, and I think that's a good thing. I also prefer primordial to primal; if you're trying to say "as ancient as the world itself" (as we are), then primordial is better for that. There's also primeval, but ehh...

[Username17]

I kind of want to do a "replacement" thing where low level spell slots get replaced with higher level ones to help keep the overall number down, but I'm worried it'd be a little complicated. Then again, in the end, it's all just gonna be a table you refer to each time you level up, so I guess it doesn't really matter.

The way to make that happen in a way that isn't intellectually insulting or overly complicated is to give people "preparation slots" or whatever the fuck you want to call them that they can swap things out of at some point that isn't the middle of the god damn action.

So you have 4 Mystery Slots or whatever, and as you go up in level you just get more mysteries that are better, and those go into your Mystery slots and that is the end of that. But since you never actually told someone that their character has forgotten Charm Person, no one is insulted. They just keep that slot full of Charm Monster instead and never happen to worry about Charm Person.

-Username17

[OgreBattle]

"elder pacts" sounds suitably lovecraftian for warlock

[Mask_De_H]

For non-prep casters, couldn't you just have them get the ability to either a) enhance or b) retrain their spells known at each tier up? Although having a set of chakras/loaded maneuvers like Frank says for each class would work pretty damn well, too. Also, I like the element waxing/waning roll idea posited earlier in the thread instead of the swinginess of larger die for Elementalist powers. You could have the Elementalist pick a favored element at some level and get a flat bonus to their power level rolls for that element, too.

For Warlock Pacts: Ultimate, Unspeakable, Ancient, Forbidden, True could work, as does Elder, like OB said.

Minor shit:
How come the Marshall is average BAB? It isn't like Frank's Soldier where it gets strikes and stuff fo make up for the lack of attacks and to-hit.
Fury and Rage are interchangeable, but it personally sounds better to me if a Barbarian gained fury to power their rages instead of vice-versa. You could also replace the rage bar point name with bloodlust or anger or rush or something.

[Ice9]

Re: Elementalist.
Unless your goal is to have them sometimes suck, don't go with rolling the absolute power of each element. Instead, go with relative power. One possibility:

1) Roll a die for each element. Die size wouldn't change from leveling, it's just based on how often you want ties to show up.
2) The element that rolled highest is at max power for your level.
3) The elemental that rolled lowest is at minimum power.
4) All other elements are at default power, which is probably 1-2 steps below max.
5) If multiple elements tied for highest, they're all at max. Ditto for lowest.
6) If all the dice are tied, the elements are in balance and everything is at default power.

So on a typical round, you probably want to use the element that's at max. But if it's inapplicable, the elements at default are still worth using.

[Username17]

I don't understand, why wouldn't you want to have a class whose shtick is that they have variable amounts of power to draw upon on a turn by turn basis sometimes have very little? People whose shtick is that they try to hit people with point sticks sometimes miss.

-Username17

[DSMatticus]

Well, here's the sorcerer/wizard problem. As I've written them, both are at will casters. The sorcerer is supposed to have more abilities available at any given time, but they can't change their abilities around between combats - they're the magical equivalent of the champion. Meanwhile, the wizard has less abilities available at any given moment, but they can shuffle them around with enough time inbetween combats. The wizard necessarily has to know more abilities than the sorcerer, or else their flexibility is meaningless and they've just given up having all their spells available at once.

This means that when the two characters unlock a new tier of abilities, the wizard is learning more of them than the sorcerer - based on the assumption that the wizard will have less available in any given combat. But if you just give the wizard a handful of free slots, then they're actually going to have more of the highest level abilities available than the sorcerer. There's a similar problem for the beguiler and enchanter, it's just less noticeable because they have different usage mechanics.

tl;dr the sorcerer hits level 7 and unlocks tier 3 abilities. They learn two, and may now cast those two at will. The wizard hits level 7 and unlocks tier 3 abilities. They learn three, and may now prepare all three in order to cast them at will. For both characters, charm person is rendered obsolete by knowing charm monster. The problem is that the wizard gets to leapfrog ahead of the sorcerer everytime the two hit a new tier.

OgreBattle/Mask_de_H, Pacts: I like elder, forbidden, and eldritch. Using elder for now.

Mask_de_H, Marshal: They need something to do on their turns more than they need full BAB, but I really don't want a class that has four different ability pools. Tome-wise, good BAB means there's a bunch of feats you can take to not be ass, but still... I'm half tempted to let them pick a small number of champion deeds and leave them at average BAB. Edit: Yeah, I'm gonna do this.

Elementalist, Ice9: I'm really not worried about elementalists sucking occasionally. I am slightly worried about making the process quicker and simpler.

[OgreBattle]

Thought of an energy/heat mechanic class:

Android
Androids are artificial beings with a powerful source of energy (steam balls, arc reactors, etc.) in their chests that give them life but can also be tapped into to power gadgets. Some gadgets are always-on (ex: radar that grants blindsight, hover legs) and consume a constant amount of energy, reducing the energy total of the android. Other gadgets are activated (ex: laser blast) and consume energy when used.

Androids regain X energy (usually not enough to restore them to energy max) at the start of their turn. An android can drop below 0 energy and become overheated with negative energy points. As long as they are in the negative, and regained energy is subtracted from negative levels before becoming usable.

So this is a 'drain' mechanic combined with a power point mechanic.

Sample android:
-4 energy max
-regains 1 energy per turn
-jet booster [move action] costs 1 energy to use
-laser eyes [standard action] cost 2 energy to use
-breast missiles [full round action] costs 4 energy to use


If the android used laser eyes (-2 energy) the previous turn they will only have 3 energy for the next turn (+1 energy recovered), meaning breast missiles (-4 energy) will cause them to overheat. If they did not use laser eyes but used jet booster (-1 energy followed by +1 energy recovery) they would be back at 4 energy, letting them use breast missiles without overheating.

*This class inspired by my love of Armored Core games

[Red_Rob]

Elementalist, Ice9: I'm really not worried about elementalists sucking occasionally. I am slightly worried about making the process quicker and simpler.

How about if you simply roll a dice to determine the Element that is your "Focus" that turn. That element gets a bonus, it's opposite gets a penalty and the other two are at default. Simple, works thematically with the Elements and means you can still get hosed by losing Water magic when you need it occasionally.

[ishy]

I don't understand, why wouldn't you want to have a class whose shtick is that they have variable amounts of power to draw upon on a turn by turn basis sometimes have very little? People whose shtick is that they try to hit people with point sticks sometimes miss.

-Username17

My bad, I thought the class could still miss with its powers. If, like you imply, the class has a variable power roll instead of a hit %, I can definitely see the value in the class.

- Edit: that is the difficulty with commenting on unfinished ideas, you make some assumptions that may or may not be correct.

[Red_Rob]

It's something important to remember though - a class with more variability in its power availability from round to round needs to have a higher chance of each individual power working because they are already running a chance of not having the power they need. Although there is the caveat that the wider the spread of powers they get access to each round the more chance there is that something will be "good enough".

[DSMatticus]

So last night, I shat out a bunch of words writing nine of the ten casters' resource mechanics. I'm half done with 1% of the work! But anyway, I'm curious what sort of class features people think these classes should have outside of their central ability lists and resource mechanics.

Giant ugly list spoilered.

Champion: It's a fighter with maneuvers turns up to 11. Bonus feats, bonus feats everywhere.

Assassin: Pilfer things from the Tome Assassin? Poison, traps, general sneakiness?

Berserker: Pilfer DR from the barbarian? What else?

Marshal: Some social mumbo jumbo? Not sure.

Monk: Unarmed combat, armored in life, magic jumps.

Paladin: Detect evil, auras out the wazoo, all that jazz.

Rogue: Similar to the assassin, only a little less focused on offensive utility. Pilfer some stuff from Tome Rogue and elsewhere.

Sorcerer: Some bloodline stuff?

Beguiler: Sneaky casting, a la the actual beguiler?

Cleric: Channeling positive energy, domain junk, no idea.

Elementalist: Huh.

Enchanter: This guy is obviously an artificer-slash-magus. He gets item creation feats and the ability to cast his discharges by putting them on a hammer and then hitting dudes in the face with it.

Necromancer: Gradual lesser lichdom?

Psion: This guy needs free metamagic feats, because applying metamagic feats on the fly by paying points is their entire shtick.

Shaman: No idea. Some sort of totem animal stuff to go with their spirits?

Warlock: Eldritch blast. What else?

Wizard: Bonus magic feats? "Choose a school of magic, get special stuff" type choice?

I'm fairly open to ideas, though if nobody has anything in particular to suggest there's plenty of existing stuff to cannabalize and build these classes out of.

[RobbyPants]

Assassin: In addition, his perception-based abilities might lead him to being a fantastic tracker and forensic investigator. Handy out-of-combat stuff.

Berserker: I'd lean toward something to make him be able to endure all that damage he's going to take while building rage. Perhaps some of it can be spent on strikes that heal his own HP damage, or something. I could see Mettle working well for this class.

Marshal: Social skills make sense here, like you suggested. I guess it depends on how skills/social stuff work in this game.

Monk: This is probably the easiest non-caster class to sell people on having magical abilities. Balancing on the air isn't out of the realm of possibility.

Rogue: If the assassin has investigation, I could see the rogue getting more charm-based social abilities.

Beguiler: It might be handled with the at-will mysteries, but I could see stuff like Ventriloquism, Disguise Self, and Displacement effects being up all the time on a character like this.

Cleric: I personally don't like the positive-energy association with this class if it's also domain-based. That seems like two different classes to me. Do evil gods channel positive energy?

Elementalist: I'd grand features based on a favored element. DR for earth, better blasting or smoke powers for fire, better mobility and DR vs ranged attacks for air, and the [aquatic] subtype and maybe fast healing for water.

Necromancer: I like the Dread Necro from HoH, so I support the gradual lesser lichdom route.

Psion: Telepathy adds some good flavor.

Shaman: Would this involve turning undead, or is that too different a concept from the types of spirits they access?

Warlock: Where do they draw their pacts from? You could have them get abilities from the source of their power (Fire or Electric resistance for infernal or abyssal, respectively. Bonuses against [Mind Affecting] for fey. Whatever).

Also, perhaps warlocks can make pacts with other people. People who do what they're supposed to get some benefit or service from the warlock, but he gets a benefit or service from them. If either side breaks it, something supernatural punishes the offender (direct combat, curse, ect).

[DSMatticus]

The shaman spirit is not "ghost spirit," it's "natural spirit." You talk to fires, not fire victims.

EDIT: But yes, definitely some things I like there. The assassin can be the tracker type, and the warlock can make bargains with people enforced by magic mumbo jumbo. I suppose for the cleric I could fold features into domains and figure things out from there.

[maglag]

I would like to point out something about the assassin: anybody can kill. Burning, stabbing, crushing, it's not that hard.

What makes the assassin stand out is that he knows how to keep his killing intent undercover until he's reached his target, and then he can make sure to cover his deeds, instead of leaving a mangled corpse like the champion or a blast crater like the wizard.

So the assassin should have abilities to both kill without being noticed (great assassins can slow down the death process when it's covenient for them) and also cover their tracks. And possibly the rest of the party. They murderize a room and the assassin makes sure there's not a stain of blood on his ally's armor when they're finished and not a single scream was heard.

[angelfromanotherpin]

"What's the Bluff DC to recast this battle as an orgy, noise-wise?"

[DSMatticus]

"What's the Bluff DC to recast this battle as an orgy, noise-wise?"

I can't help but imagine a series of berserker war cries, ground-shaking explosions, and the screams of the maimed and dying followed by a lengthy, awkward silence and finally a single convincingly faked orgasmic cry.

I wouldn't investigate.

[RobbyPants]

"What's the Bluff DC to recast this battle as an orgy, noise-wise?"

I can't help but imagine a series of berserker war cries, ground-shaking explosions, and the screams of the maimed and dying followed by a lengthy, awkward silence and finally a single convincingly faked orgasmic cry.

I wouldn't investigate.

So, in addition to Bluff, Diplomacy, Intimidate, and Sense Motive, you're going to want Squick.

[RobbyPants]

The shaman spirit is not "ghost spirit," it's "natural spirit." You talk to fires, not fire victims.

Okay. So, nix the Turn Undead idea, and consider adding having passive buffs in the form of a spirit companion that can be swapped with others as a swift action. These would be sort of like stances, but you would at least have more control over them.

Also, I could see a lot of use from divinations with this class. The more general "future telling" types would be of varying reliability, because you don't know who will answer and what it knows. Close-future combat divinations could work as well, such as guardian or guiding spirits warding or warning you of imminent danger.

I don't know. You might want to make sure it doesn't become a full-out oracle, since it doesn't fit my concept of the class. Maybe that's what you want, though.

[Eikre]

Assassin is also where you put Hunters. They have a conceptual intersection as stalking, meticulous planners who prefer an abrupt surprise assault to a pitched battle, merely differing in that Hunters have a naturalist bend where Assassins are more metropolitan. This isn't a new idea or anything, "Urban Rangers" have been a thing for a while now.

And although I really love Frank's CYOA blurb for the heroic Orcish Assassin (whose classic role was in removing demon-sympathizers from the power structure), I think the Hunter could have head billing as the name of the class, because that's an archetype with a much deeper antecedent as the fairytale folk hero with habits that make him available to stage a rescue even in places that you wouldn't ever expect to meet a friendly face (like the middle of the dark and terrible wilderness).

It's all window-dressing, though: Both of them can lead the party through stealth encounters, clear up everyone's tracks afterwards, and commiserate with special contacts (such as in the criminal underworld or with druids and fair folk). In 3.5, they even share the trait of 1/3 casting for no particular reason.

[DSMatticus]

I've done the resource mechanic write-up for each class, though there's probably a lot of room for polishing and condensing. I've laid out and written the class features (but not the class ability lists) for the champion, enchanter, and warlock.

Also, every character is getting immortality at level 12 and auto-res on a one week delay at 15. That's just a thing I'm doing. Same level, every class, no exceptions. Some classes get weirder versions of it than others, but every class gets it.

Champion: I've given the champion bonus combat feats and some mild bullshit like reducing armor penalties and grabbing exotic weapon proficiencies and some flat damage bonuses to weapon groups. So basically you're a Pathfinder fighter, except you get to have interesting abilities. The primary workhorse here is the deeds, which have yet to be written, some of which are going to have non-combat applications so you don't auto-fail at life.

Enchanter: They have some free item creation feats and the ability to craft items more quickly than other characters. They also have slightly modified spellstrike and spell combat from the magus, and get to "keep" a limited number of discharges per day when they would otherwise be expended (spell recall). They get to designate a single object as their bound item; bound items can hold multiple discharges (and multiple infusions), and the infusions don't fade when the discharge is used up. So you're basically a magus with a special multi-enchanted weapon and a bunch of item creation mumbo jumbo. Also, your special form of immortality involves keeping The Painting of Dorian Gray The Gray Sigil in your attic. I thought calling it The Gray Sigil was cute and just wanted to brag.

The Warlock: Every pact has a type (eldritch, fiendish, or fey), and the warlock chooses a specialty. They're better at resisting drain when they use major arcana of their specialty, but they can choose any pacts they want. Eldritch warlocks get a bunch of miscellaneous crap like plucking their eyes out and using them to scout. Fiendish warlocks get fire resistance, tongues, telepathy. Fey warlocks get resistance to mind-affecting stuff, and the ability to talk to plants and animals. Each gets a different type of damage reduction. They also have an eldritch blast that they can use to deliver their arcana (spells) once or twice a day and the ability to do the contract thing RobbyPants mentioned.

[8d8]

If the shaman deals with spirits, the shaman should use the spirits in everything it does. I like the idea of "binding" spirits to people and things - the shaman is basically a buffer/debuffer. Bind a spirit to someone to make them stronger; bind a spirit to a kobold to make it big and clumsy; bind a spirit to a rhino to turn the rhino into a friendly, (maybe talking) mount; bind a spirit to a caster to improve their chance of casting success; bind a spirit to your junk to cure ED; bind a spirit of knowledge to a book to make it open to the page that answers your question; bind a spirit to an elementalist that attunes him to fire; bind a spirit to a monk that gives an extra attack; bind a spirit to a warlock that allows him to change his pact; bind an ancient spirit who's seen it all and makes better deductions than you do to guess at what the future will hold... etc.

The idea is that the shaman (the person, not the class) just doesn't do a whole lot. The spirits with which the shaman communicates do the work, and aside from that the shaman is just a guy with a spear and a colorful song his curious people like to sing before lunch. "I did nothing but stand in the way - the spirits of metals turned the enemy's spears, the spirits of twilight and want stoked the furnace of dread, and the spirits of Autumn made them fall with exhaustion after so few blows. Pray that when your spirit one day does likewise it is in my benevolent service."

I would like to point out something about the assassin: anybody can kill. Burning, stabbing, crushing, it's not that hard.

What makes the assassin stand out is that he knows how to keep his killing intent undercover until he's reached his target, and then he can make sure to cover his deeds, instead of leaving a mangled corpse like the champion or a blast crater like the wizard.

So the assassin should have abilities to both kill without being noticed (great assassins can slow down the death process when it's covenient for them) and also cover their tracks. And possibly the rest of the party. They murderize a room and the assassin makes sure there's not a stain of blood on his ally's armor when they're finished and not a single scream was heard.

"We can all applaud the doctor who's willing to break all the rules. The real hero is the unsung doctor, toiling in anonymity, because he broke the rules without getting caught." -House S4E8

I wholeheartedly agree that the description you gave would make for a compelling class. But I don't really know how you'd implement that. Also, Eikre's equating assassins to hunters sounds sound.

[Eikre]

It's not difficult to implement.

Everyone can make hide checks, but Assassins are better at it than average. They can use the powers of disguise to plan a costume or camouflage that will permit them brazen freedom of access to places that are in clear sight of their adversaries. If a suspicious onlooker interacts with them, they can use the powers of bluff to make that onlooker believe that the assassin's presence isn't something to be alarmed by. These skills are very specifically magically extensible into defenses against divination and telepathy; assassins can spoof magical signatures and hide their incriminating thoughts and motives in a secret mental bubble. They can also shed their disguise abruptly to dazzle an onlooker's mode of perception, whether that be extrasensory or otherwise.

Assassins are good at looking out for themselves in an emergency, but they can extend their talents to their teammates if they have enough time to orchestrate a plan. Joints can be cased for modes of entry and hiding spaces, disguises can be prepared for anybody, cover stories can be corroborated, aura-spoofs can be placed on anybody, and a skilled assassin can even lead a team-mate in a hypnotic session to turn them into a Manchurian Candidate.

Assassins have experience cleaning up their messes and can cover their tracks, wipe their prints, and jury-rig repairs so that signs of a struggle will be missed at first glance. Eventually they're so fastidious that they can revert the scene to the same temperatures and odors as when they arrived, and work some scary tradecraft voodoo to get a corpse to wake back up and continue its ordinary habits, only to seemingly die from mysterious circumstances long after the Assassin has fled. They can work the same skills in reverse to frame someone for a misdeed, and they can use their acumen to realize that something is off. The whole party can benefit from these skills, and the Assassin's attention to detail will help them from overlooking the mistakes they might make even if they're technically capable of cleaning up their messes themselves.

Super-duper assassins can deliver blows so subtle and precise that the recipient stands a good chance of not even noticing them. This is useful for delivering a postponed death and then leaving before the mark keels over, but it's also useful for hamstringing all the guards so that they collapse in their hustle when your team suddenly leaps into action against the evil prince.

So-called Hunters also have uses for all of these trappings. In the wilderness, everything has its ecological place, and an inelegant huntsperson sticks out like a sore thumb. Sometimes you just wanna make sure a sudden flock of spooked birds doesn't take off when you're about to shoot a deer, but sometimes your mark is something more sophisticated, like a crazy druid or malevolent forest spirit that has eyes in every grotto and glade. Sometimes you get swept up in a guerrilla campaign and you're hiding out from the king's trackers. Whatever. Eventually, though, all this metropolitan/wilderness stuff stops being a relevant duality, because your character develops past his place of genesis and starts traveling and trouble-making everywhere and anywhere.