Pathfinder Is Still Bad

DSMatticus · Post by **DSMatticus** » Wed Apr 22, 2015 7:36 am

There are also some decent skald archetypes. The totemic skald, for example, lets you hand out the hunter's animal focus alongside your raging song (replacing your 3rd level rage power) and wildshape (replacing spell kenning). You don't even have to spend a feat to be able to raging song while running around as whatever your totem animal is*.

EDIT: I just realized the wildshape is into whatever you chose for the animal focus, which is... pretty limiting, because the good wildshape options make shit totem animals.

Orca · Post by **Orca** » Wed Apr 22, 2015 2:03 pm

The way you can choose whether or or to use the inspired rage round-by-round makes rage powers like superstition or reckless abandon kind of handy. Savage dirty trick and a few others are good. Sure, there's a lot of crud but you don't need to choose said crud.

Paladin smites are actually pretty good in PF; ignoring DR & adding charisma to attack, damage & AC, while lasting until the guy you smote is down, make it a great buff. The paladin problem is as always that paladins are a pain to RP with, not their combat effectiveness in PF.

I haven't seen a bloodrager in play but they're close enough in mechanics that you should be able to treat them as barbarians with more options.

Ghremdal · Post by **Ghremdal** » Wed Apr 22, 2015 4:03 pm

Ive seen bloodragers that start combat with mirror image and displacement, and have a rage power that allows them to respond to melee attacks before they hit with opportunity attacks. As beatsticks go they are very solid.

Koumei · Post by **Koumei** » Wed Apr 22, 2015 10:38 pm

Well they've been throwing enough shit at the wall for a long enough time that some things are bound to work out.

So... do you think they're going to end up shouting "Prestige Classes no longer exist" and retcon "the ones we liked" into base classes/archetypes (so you can have an Assassin Rogue or Shadowdancer Rogue from level 1, and Dragon Disciple is gone because "You can just be a Dragon-blooded Sorcerer")?

Or is it too late, and that will just happen for PF 2.0?

Juton · Post by **Juton** » Wed Apr 22, 2015 10:45 pm

I just had a scary thought. The buzz on Unchained is pretty negative so far. Maybe the higher ups at Paizo will get the idea that the fan base doesn't want drastic change (ie improvements). Pathfinder 2.0 is just a reshuffling of abilities, severe enough to require buying more books but addressing nothing about problems with the game.

DSMatticus · Post by **DSMatticus** » Wed Apr 22, 2015 10:49 pm

I don't think the grumbling about Unchained is ambiguous. Everyone hates it because it's same shit, different book.

Don't get me wrong, Pathfinder 2.0 will almost definitely be "not far enough." But it'll be "not far enough" because the devs have never had and never will have any intention of going far enough, not because they misunderstood the criticism of Unchained.

CaptPike · Post by **CaptPike** » Wed Apr 22, 2015 10:59 pm

DSMatticus wrote:I don't think the grumbling about Unchained is ambiguous. Everyone hates it because it's same shit, different book.

Don't get me wrong, Pathfinder 2.0 will almost definitely be "not far enough." But it'll be "not far enough" because the devs have never had and never will have any intention of going far enough, not because they misunderstood the criticism of Unchained.

At this point I wonder if they even could make a pathfinder 2.0, by which I mean a game they made from whole cloth that was not just lifted from someone else.

I doubt they would try to do like that, as I can't image it work out well for them for any number of reasons.

ishy · Post by **ishy** » Wed Apr 22, 2015 11:19 pm

Juton wrote:I just had a scary thought. The buzz on Unchained is pretty negative so far.

Is it?
Look at the comments on these incredible shitty items: http://paizo.com/paizo/blog/v5748dyo5lh ... ed#discuss
Almost all of them are very positive.

Juton · Post by **Juton** » Wed Apr 22, 2015 11:57 pm

DSMatticus wrote:I don't think the grumbling about Unchained is ambiguous. Everyone hates it because it's same shit, different book.

Don't get me wrong, Pathfinder 2.0 will almost definitely be "not far enough." But it'll be "not far enough" because the devs have never had and never will have any intention of going far enough, not because they misunderstood the criticism of Unchained.

You are right. For some reason I would really like them to try something substantial. The odds of then succeeding are infinitesimal but I regard not trying a worse sin then epic failure.

ishy wrote:Look at the comments on these incredible shitty items: http://paizo.com/paizo/blog/v5748dyo5lh ... ed#discuss
Almost all of them are very positive.

I thought the Paizo discussions on the Monk, Summoner and variant multiclassing are pretty roundly criticisms. I haven't kept up on much else.

erik · Post by **erik** » Thu Apr 23, 2015 12:32 am

Juton wrote: I thought the Paizo discussions on the Monk, Summoner and variant multiclassing are pretty roundly criticisms. I haven't kept up on much else.

Really? I only bothered to read the first page for the Monk, but there was one critic at the start to a dozen fanboys, and a few people waiting on the fence or mixed feelings.

Rawbeard · Post by **Rawbeard** » Thu Apr 23, 2015 2:22 am

Those items are not that terrible, considering they cost almost nothing.

Roog · Post by **Roog** » Thu Apr 23, 2015 5:18 am

Rawbeard wrote:Those items are not that terrible, considering they cost almost nothing.

They have a price of almost nothing, but look at the cost to make them.

ROBE OF THE FAERIE QUEEN, Price 4,800 gp, CONSTRUCTION Cost 132,000 gp
CRYSTAL TIARA, Price 1,000 GP, CONSTRUCTION Cost 132,000 gp

LeadPal · Post by **LeadPal** » Thu Apr 23, 2015 6:30 am

Rawbeard wrote:Those items are not that terrible, considering they cost almost nothing.

Not quite. Either the PCs pay for them, or the GM charges for them.

Magic Items Unchained wrote:The math is all worked out to allow GMs to use a few different systems for the advancement, including automatic advancement (in which case, it's recommended to dole out less treasure if you want to keep the party at about the same power level) or advancement using rituals and gold (the easier method for someone running a published adventure).

Mask_De_H · Post by **Mask_De_H** » Thu Apr 23, 2015 5:55 pm

I'm just taking the piss DSM; calm the fuck down. I know you have a pathological need to be right about TTRPGs, but that was pretty obviously a post made in jest.

Although the Skald is pretty ass, even though it's a 2/3rds caster. The Totem Animal abilities aren't great, since Hunter Aspects are meh and your wildshape is super limited. At least the Bloodrager gets things that help it be a better beatstick. Spell Kenning is neat, though.

Archmage Joda · Post by **Archmage Joda** » Thu Apr 23, 2015 6:38 pm

Is the Bloodrager really worth anything? Yeah, it gets spells, but it feels like they get them too slowly and too few to really be worth the bother...

Dean · Post by **Dean** » Thu Apr 23, 2015 7:31 pm

Bloodrager can do literally everything a Barbarian can do and he gets things like automatic buffs and flight.

tussock · Post by **tussock** » Fri Apr 24, 2015 1:41 am

A 1-level dip in Wizard (or a bunch of other classes with a better 1st level) gets you all those things and more in wands for pretty cheap. But that argument disappears down the rabbit hole of "but taking even more levels of Wizard is better still", where your Brb-2 / Wiz-18 is a better barbarian than everyone, and you can also fold in Rage-Mage or whatever to make it better still.

TOZ · Post by **TOZ** » Fri Apr 24, 2015 2:34 am

Bloodragers do at least get the benefit of a swift action spell when they enter rage, if I recall correctly. A one level dip in wizard doesn't accomplish that, but being a full on wizard with a dip in barbarian does.

hogarth · Post by **hogarth** » Sat Apr 25, 2015 1:41 am

Archmage Joda wrote:Is the Bloodrager really worth anything? Yeah, it gets spells, but it feels like they get them too slowly and too few to really be worth the bother...

I started playing a Pathfinder play-by-post campaign (Savage Tide) in 2008. My PC ended up as a Sorcerer 1/Monk 4/Dragon Disciple 4 (except instead of a Dragon Disciple, I asked the GM if I could play an "Abyssal Disciple" that advanced the Abyssal bloodline). I wanted to play a strong unarmored guy with claws who turned into kind of a monster (with access to buffs like Enlarge Person, Mage Armor, Mirror Image, etc. in scroll or wand form).

If the Bloodrager had been around at that time, I definitely would have gone straight for a Monk 1/Bloodrager 8 or a Monk 2/Bloodrager 7 instead. The Abyssal bloodline Bloodrager does exactly what I was looking for, oddly enough.

Antariuk · Post by **Antariuk** » Sat Apr 25, 2015 8:55 am

Dean wrote:Bloodrager can do literally everything a Barbarian can do and he gets things like automatic buffs and flight.

People keep saying this like a mantra but it's simply not true. Unless we're talking about the Primalist archetype. And since it isn't automatically allowed everywhere (not in PFS, for example), the fact remains that a standard Bloodrager cannot do everything a Barbarian can, literally or otherwise.

Dean · Post by **Dean** » Sat Apr 25, 2015 12:02 pm

Antariuk wrote:
Dean wrote:Bloodrager can do literally everything a Barbarian can do and he gets things like automatic buffs and flight.
People keep saying this like a mantra but it's simply not true. Unless we're talking about the Primalist archetype. And since it isn't automatically allowed everywhere (not in PFS, for example), the fact remains that a standard Bloodrager cannot do everything a Barbarian can, literally or otherwise.

If you need to ban the primalist archetype to stop Bloodrager from being a directly superior Barbarian than Bloodrager is a directly superior Barbarian. What you have said is "Bloodrager can't do everything a Barbarian can do if you ban the things that allow him to do that.".

I'm aware they ban Primalist at PFS, however I don't give a fuck about PFS because basically everything is banned in PFS.

DeadlyReed · Post by **DeadlyReed** » Mon Apr 27, 2015 11:49 pm

Hmm, they just replaced the APG Summoner with the unchained Summoner in PFS.

Rawbeard · Post by **Rawbeard** » Tue Apr 28, 2015 5:28 am

Is he available online?

TOZ · Post by **TOZ** » Tue Apr 28, 2015 7:19 am

Not yet. Should be up on the PRD before long.

rasmuswagner · Post by **rasmuswagner** » Tue Apr 28, 2015 9:26 am

Rawbeard wrote:Is he available online?

Preview: All classic spells on your spell-list are moved up to the spell level that wizards use. You get half the normal number of evolution points, but you also get a template full of bullshit to apply to your Eidolon. Everything else is unchanged.