SirWayne at [unixtime wrote:1166772381[/unixtime]]
Assuming that there was a superentity out there with effective omniscience [albeit some bizarre personality quirks], would you say that you were smarter than he is? Or even that there was a possibility that you could be?
The fact is, we as humans are extremely insignificant when compared to the vast universe that we still don't know much about. There could very well be a singular purpose to everything, and it might even be "42," but we will probably never know. And to say that we know better than a theoretical omniscience what's "best" or "most desirable" for the universe is the very height of hubris.
See, that's the problem with the intelligent design theory. You start by assuming "God exists" then you hand wave everything that you can't explain and say "It's beyond us, but there's a purpose, because god exists and he put it there for a reason."
You're trying to prove something and then explaining it by assuming the thing you're trying to prove is true.
It's a 'Begging the question' fallacy based on circular logic.
Now, I bring up the subject of God's possible personality quirks for a reason. One thing [among others] really stands out to me in the book of Genesis: it states that God created man out of the dust, not being born as a baby. Assuming that that's true, that means that Adam was created with the appearance but not reality of age. And if that is true, why not create the universe the same way-- with the appearance but not reality of age? And if that's true, it makes sense that there's only life on this one planet-- because that's all God wanted-- and that there would still be "creation" out there, to intrigue people and make them consider the heavens, and from that, God (Psalms 19:1).
Well, here's the deal. God wants to be worshipped apparently for whatever reason. He wants it to so much he's willing to send your soul to hell for eternity because you don't. Why would he create crafty illusions to mislead people? God forces people to guess and then gives you an eternity of torment if you guess wrong.
That isn't benevolent in my book.
As far as "evil" in nature goes-- animals killing each other and humans being born with disease and so on-- that has to be accepted as a fundamental and logical consequence of God's decision to create a natural cycle to govern our lives, instead of micromanaging everything Himself like a big game of Populous. There is no other alternative-- either God sits back and only intervenes when it is absolutely necessary (if the Hebrews didn't survive to reach Canaan, then obviously Jesus being born in Bethlehem to the tribe of Judah would be a problem)-- or we have no free will because God does everything. If there is an option C, I don't know what it could be.
There's plenty of other solutions actually. God's power is theoretically infinite. There's no reason he has to have people die of disease or in other painful ways. People can merely die peacefully and move on, or even not die at all until they're ready to go to heaven. There are a heck of a lot more benevolent things God can do.
So, if you accept rain and the water cycle, you accept droughts and deserts. If you accept sexual reproduction, you accept genetic disorders.
If you except the science of evolution and biology. If you buy into intelligent design, then that stuff doesn't have to be true, because God could make it anyway he wanted, but he chose to put flaws in the system just to cause pain and misery. So when you've got some child dying of a birth defect, God did that.
And if you accept having a multitude of species-- for whatever reason-- you accept them preying on each other, as the only alternative is overpopulation and disaster.
Nope, omnipotent being again. He can just as easily create an infinite world to live on. Thus no overpopulation because space could be infinite. The world is only finite because God
made it finite.
If you're going by intelligent design, you must toss out science. Because by intelligent design, you no longer are bound by existing constraints on space/time because you have an omnipotent creator. So natural consequences as determined by current reality do not have to exist.
People dont' even have to need to eat food to grow. They don't have to starve, they only starve because God put that dependency in there.
And, similarly, evils caused by man are also entirely logical once you accept the existence of free will.
Well yes, that much I can accept. But there are plenty of non-man made flaws that disprove intelligent design (At least by a benevolent all-good infallible creator being).
I answered most of that previously, but I'd like to add that it's not exactly a "guessing game."
Oh, it is a guessing game. Until there's undeniable proof that God exists, it is entirely a guessing game. While you have reached one decision, plenty of very smart and educated people have reached other decisions. Everyone has their own guess about how the universe works, but nobody can actually prove it. If we could prove it, then there wouldn't be massive religious wars and controversy.
But the thing is that it's not clear, and the answer isn't obvious or even provable.
I mean, seriously, has any scientific field had more "problems" with self-supported hoaxes than evolution?
Science has had some hoaxes. But it also has something religion doesn't, and that's actual proof. Just because some people faked a few things doesn't make all the real stuff invalid.
This is a joke, right? Well, just to get us started, I can find Mt. Sinai on an atlas, and book a flight to Bethlehem, but I haven't had much luck seeing the gods on Olympus or going to Asgard....
Can you go to heaven or hell? Can you prove its existence?
Anyone ever find the garden of Eden? Last I checked they didn't.
How do we know that Zeus isn't just hiding mount Olympus from us or that Jesus wasn't just an incarnation of Loki who decided to play the ultimate prank on humanity by inventing a false religion?
Just like intelligent design handwaves lifeless planets and other seemingly useless parts of the cosmos with "we just don't understand it", you can easily do the same to justify other religions. You can bring up the same garbage argument that "Zeus is a god and smarter than you are, so anything he does is beyond human comprehension."
In the end it just boils down to "believe this cause I said so."
You know, we still have trouble explaining how the pyramids were constructed... maybe the pharoahs really were gods.
The only reason that worshipping God gets more credit than worshipping Zeus is because it's popular. There is just no hard evidence that makes Christianity any more believable than any other religion.