[Tome] More Backgrounds?

[Aryxbez]

Aryxbez, your ones are more like feats than backgrounds. The different domain thing is okay since people tend to usually ignore that anyway.

That's fair, I was mostly trying to go off what others were doing, w/implication of small-time benefits like from some non-tome feats, or like. I imagine toning down Strongman to only 1/2 lv to str-checks & double carrying capacity would make it more useful to just strong guys in general. Otherwise seems my first one is the most "background-y", as its concept is one I can see some cleric player (I included) would have, while giving a small and BS-y enough benefit that adds to the concept (though it can also just be seen as getting away with domains you want).

Didn't really know that people ignored A deity's domain list, seems like something that would get enforced by most RPG fans?

I like the Backgrounds here that are actually backgrounds, a way of helping you write one paragraph about your life leading up to the game rather than just describing what you do, which is what your class and skills and shit already do, just like the Tome backgrounds originally worked.

In other words I like about three of the ones here.

Yeah....fair enough, I knew lot of these weren't that great going in, but mine aren't any better. Curious, of the possible "three" that you do like in this thread, which ones are those?

[Prak]

Well... mine kind of jump back and forth over that line. Cook and Gladiator definitely give an idea of what you did before adventuring, but the rest I left vague because there are a number of directions you can go with something like "I have bone claws that pop out of my hands" or "animals just like me."

[radthemad4]

Backgrounds should be the things that are like what Frank points out PrCs were supposed to me. Something that there aren't more than 10 of, and that you make up your own for your character.

Why is the existence of more than 10 backgrounds a problem? Isn't making up your own backgrounds pretty much this, but not sharing? As you can see, people like me are clearly unqualified to make up our own without consulting the internet first and if any of the people I know in real life DM'd for me, they wouldn't even know that the ones I made up were stupid. 'The dark one background is piles of hot garbage' is a valid complaint. 'No one should ever even try to make new ones' is one I disagree with. Why not provide some examples of new backgrounds (that is why I created this thread in the first place)? Or at least say which ones (if any) presented so far you'd allow in your games, or barring that which ones here are the least terrible.

[erik]

It doesn't have to be just 10, as kaelik said you can make up your own and the 10 or so are just example ideas. I felt kind of embarrassed about participating in this thread once it got going. A lot of these ain't backgrounds at all, just stuff the character has.

edit:

I like the Backgrounds here that are actually backgrounds, a way of helping you write one paragraph about your life leading up to the game rather than just describing what you do, which is what your class and skills and shit already do, just like the Tome backgrounds originally worked.

In other words I like about three of the ones here.

Yeah....fair enough, I knew lot of these weren't that great going in, but mine aren't any better. Curious, of the possible "three" that you do like in this thread, which ones are those?

Two of them are mine, but Koumei didn't want my head to get any bigger by saying so.

[radthemad4]

Yes this thread is a mess, but if there's anything worth salvaging, it could be moved to a shiny new thread started by someone with good taste which has more good backgrounds in it.

[Seerow]

Yes this thread is a mess, but if there's anything worth salvaging, it could be moved to a shiny new thread started by someone with good taste which has more good backgrounds in it.

go fuck yourself

[codeGlaze]

It doesn't have to be just 10, as kaelik said you can make up your own and the 10 or so are just example ideas. I felt kind of embarrassed about participating in this thread once it got going. A lot of these ain't backgrounds at all, just stuff the character has.

Well, then, now that the problem has been pointed out, there can be a standard.

It seems people interested in this thread have already agreed upon the reasonableness of Koumei's standard.
Previous backgrounds can be edited to match the new standard and/or we simply "enforce" the standard going forward. It's... really not a difficult leap to make.
There's not much reason to feel embarrassed about.

Also:
I updated the background generator/format-a-rater to reflect this new paradigm!

e:tags

[Kaelik]

Backgrounds should be the things that are like what Frank points out PrCs were supposed to me. Something that there aren't more than 10 of, and that you make up your own for your character.

Why is the existence of more than 10 backgrounds a problem? Isn't making up your own backgrounds pretty much this, but not sharing? As you can see, people like me are clearly unqualified to make up our own without consulting the internet first and if any of the people I know in real life DM'd for me, they wouldn't even know that the ones I made up were stupid. 'The dark one background is piles of hot garbage' is a valid complaint. 'No one should ever even try to make new ones' is one I disagree with. Why not provide some examples of new backgrounds (that is why I created this thread in the first place)? Or at least say which ones (if any) presented so far you'd allow in your games, or barring that which ones here are the least terrible.

The existence of more than 10 is a problem because it enforces the problematic ideas:

1) If there are 100 backgrounds, DMs are going to think you should pick and existing one and not be allowed to make your own, see PrCs for an example of that already happening.

2) If there are a 100 backgrounds there is more likely to be one that already gives you the bonuses you specifically wanted, or close enough, so you will just take that one instead of writing your own background because that is more work.

If there are 100 perfect godlike beautiful backgrounds that arc across the heavens giving ecstasy to all who read them, that is still worse than if there are 10 good guideline backgrounds and an injunction to make your own to fit your character. Because in the first case, people will only ever play characters with 100 backgrounds, but in the seconds, people who are boring or unimaginative or lazy or distracted can still pick a background, but people who actually want to put thought into their backgrounds can actually play characters with thousands of backgrounds instead of the same 100 repeated 100 times across all the players.

[RadiantPhoenix]

I think one problem is that Races of War doesn't clearly say that you should make up your own backgrounds.

[erik]

1) If there are 100 backgrounds, DMs are going to think you should pick and existing one and not be allowed to make your own, see PrCs for an example of that already happening.

2) If there are a 100 backgrounds there is more likely to be one that already gives you the bonuses you specifically wanted, or close enough, so you will just take that one instead of writing your own background because that is more work.

I'd agree except for this:

1) Big red letters should have been written at the beginning of each PrC section reminding players of this. That was a failing on DnD's part not in fully educating their audience.

2) Given that some folks have trouble creating their own PrCs or backgrounds, more examples aren't necessarily a bad thing. It's easier to have something close that you can tweak versus making something wholecloth.

3) We still enjoy writing and sharing PrCs and such, so there's something to it worth keeping.

[hyzmarca]

I would argue that the idea of requiring players to create their own PrCs is stupid, because creating balanced classes is hard and creating balanced second classes with arbitrary prerequisites is harder. And players do not have the time to put that class through the play-testing that it needs before actually playing with it.


Backgrounds, on the other hand, are very easy to create. Pick a bonus and give a justification for it.