Princes of the City: Anyone Want to Bite?

[hyzmarca]

I'm thinking that everyone takes it in turns being the prince for the week, but all of the prince's decisions have to be ratified at a bi-weekly meeting.

[Whipstitch]

I'm not worried about harpy since it is only a semi-official job title and it's common for there to be a clique of harpies rather than just some lone imperious asshole anyway. There's little to no official power and it's tough to effectively just appoint them from on high since ultimately the true test of a harpy is whether or not you can call Jodie a skank during home room and have that rep stick by lunch time. Still, several of the mostly finished characters have what it takes to be in Mean Girls. Suzie is Santa Claus and knows whether you've been bad or good, Stan has Majesty and Max can no sell several social powers and has a few of his own to boot. Throw in that we all have 3+ Status and we can easily make the average new kid rue the day they agreed to go out with us for a mani-pedi.

[Shady314]

I figured we'd give it to Verge as he seems to be our resident jokester and the least overtly threatening being of a lower gen. Harpy can be the jester instead of the Queen B.

[Ancient History]

AH was pooling certain backgrounds a yea or nay? It seems to just be a nWoD thing so if not then no problem. Just wanted to ask.

It's actually a Dark Ages thing, but yea. Remember to specify which backgrounds belong to the group rather than the individual character.

[hyzmarca]

I can't seem to find the rules for drinking stored blood, except some fluff saying that old blood is less potent.

If Verge buys several gallons from a butcher shop, how long can it keep it in the freezer before it is no longer nourishing?

[Ancient History]

I don't know where the rules for drinking old blood are either, but the normal blood donation rules say frozen blood is damaged at 21 days and they toss it after 42 days. So I would think if properly stored frozen blood is good for at most six weeks (maybe it degrades by about 1/2 its blood point value per week).

[hyzmarca]

You know, it occurs to me that taking a few phlembotomy classes is an awesome way to avoid accidental deaths while feeding.

I know that the bite is traditional, but it's not nearly as safe or efficient as a phlebotomist's needle and a blood collection bag.

[Prak]

There's a flaw where you just don't have fangs, that would be a great thing for your caitiff-- the embrace was weak, he never got fangs, so he picked up phlebtomy instead.

[hyzmarca]

Well no, not really. That's less than 1 per state per year. Making it look like a dog got them is still going to attract attention and get animal control involved and investigating.

I'm imagining more like if one of our animal soldiers kill someone. Or their behavior just makes the kine suspicious. Or AH has lupines show up to make our lives miserable. It just made me realize animal control might actually be called for some bizarre stuff. I hadn't thought of them before.

Places/People likely to brush up against the supernatural.
Animal control. Many supernaturals might appear as animals.
Police (more importantly forensics). Obviously.
Docks. Airports. Possible entry points for supernaturals.
Hospitals. Supernatural shit that doesn't kill you probably fucked you up. Feed too much but not enough to kill them and people end up here missing a LOT of blood with no wounds.
Funeral homes. Uh oh.
Bars and Nightclubs because stereotypes. Also intoxicated oblivious food.

What's missing?

Also what sort of background or level of resources do I need to own this place?

From What I can tell, resources 4 would let you own a small slaughterhouse that brings you 9 grand a month in dividends and is worth half a million on the open market. 5 resources lets you control a large slaughterhouse that is worth 5 million on and open market and brings in 30000 a month of dividends. Resources 6 lets you own the meat industry. All of it. Worldwide.

By fluff, Resources 6 represents hundreds of billions in assets. Resources 10 means that you control the entire global economy.

[Shady314]

3 square miles gets you 1920 acres which is more than enough for 600 cows or pigs. 6 vampires require 30 points of blood per month for survival. Draining one point of blood from the cows/pigs each month would give a surplus of 480 blood points. 80 bp for everybody a month. Or we alternate the blood taking for 240 blood points per month and 40 for everybody. I think we know how vampires would actually exist in secret assuming animal blood is useable for them.
That's easily just Herd 9 or 10. Turn that farm into a research lab studying blood borne pathogens and you have the perfect cover for bleeding your animals. The blood must flow.

The drawback is you still feel hungry (diets suck) but the book doesn't talk about what happens if your main course is animal blood but then you have human for desert.

There's also blood from veterinary clinics, hospitals and mortuaries and there are rituals to purify blood and revivify dead blood.

Anyways this seems like a good one to pool. The Herd doesn't have to be one source. It can be stuff like this plus cocaine addicted club-goers and everything else each character prefers in addition. We can also still respect domains. It should be a law we must keep the blood flowing so an attack against the blood production is an attack on all kindred.

Resources is another good one to pool. If we did Herd 10 and Resources 6 that would only be 3 freebies per player with 2 left over for perhaps Occult library background or Influence.

@Prak You have Occult Library as a merit but there is an Occult Library background in the Blood Magic book. I don't know if you're aware but it has actual mechanical benefits unlike the merit (as far as I can see).

@AH Speaking of Blood Magic it expands on Rituals and unlike the Corebook says additional dots in your primary path earn you an additional ritual of that level. Which seems fitting since some of us aren't fledglings and rituals seem really kewl. Can we choose additional rituals based on our thaumaturgy discipline or do we go by the corebook with only one level one ritual to start?

[Ancient History]

@AH Speaking of Blood Magic it expands on Rituals and unlike the Corebook says additional dots in your primary path earn you an additional ritual of that level. Which seems fitting since some of us aren't fledglings and rituals seem really kewl. Can we choose additional rituals based on our thaumaturgy discipline or do we go by the corebook with only one level one ritual to start?

You can get one ritual per level in your blood sorcery discipline(s) of choice. I think Clanbook Tremere Revised has costs for buying additional rituals with freebie points.

[Koumei]

By fluff, Resources 6 represents hundreds of billions in assets.

It sure does!

[Prak]

Well, I wouldn't be opposed to pooling some backgrounds. If we combine Resources, I think that actually works in everyone's best interests as it seems a bit more exponential than linear, so we each spend less points for what we individually want, and have points to put elsewhere (like turning Occult Library into the background version)

[Ancient History]

Right. If anybody forgets how pooling backgrounds works, everybody that wants to do so contributes Freebie Points to the pool, which are then spent on Backgrounds owned by the group as a whole - the fluff side of things you have to work out.

[Nebuchadnezzar]

I could free up some points, potentially even dropping Celerity 1 and Scalpel Tongue in addition to taking some out of personal backgrounds. Resources and Herd seem like obvious choices, and potentially Haven, a couple of different Influences, Information Network, et al could prove useful. Those of you with more experience with the rules might be in a better position to make suggestions, since I'm picking up this game and its setting from wikis.

I wouldn't want to step on anyone's toes regarding backstory, so it's definitely opt-in, and let's keep it equal buy-in (3-10 freebies/ea).

[hyzmarca]

I don't think equal buy in is the best solution. Personally, I have a bunch of points that I don't know what to do with and would be perfectly happy to throw in 10 of them. I wouldn't expect anyone else to match that contribution.

[radthemad4]

I'd gladly to throw in some points into resources (though I'm not sure about the amount just yet). What are the numbers for 6+ though?

Name: Seth Simmons
Clan: Tremere
Concept: Truth Seeker
Nature: Pedagogue
Demeanor: Architect

Statistics:

Attributes:
Strength 1, Dexterity 2, Stamina 3 - 3
Charisma 4 (Smooth Talker), Manipulation 3, Appearance 1 - 5
Perception 3, Intelligence 5 (Analytical Problem Solver), Wits 2 - 7

Abilities:

Talents - 9
Alertness 2 (5 xp from Kel)
Instruction 4 (2 fbp)
Intuition 3
Scrounging 3

Skills - 5
Crafts 2
Security 3

Knowledges - 13
Computer 5 (Data Retrieval) (4 fbp)
Investigation 3
Occult 3
Enigmas 3
Cryptography 1

Disciplines
Clan:
Thaumaturgy 5 (Technomancy 5) (14 fbp)

Backgrounds:
Generation 5
Pooling 15 (15 fbp, 5 allies, 4 supernatural companion)

Virtues:
Conscience 2
Self Control 3
Courage 5

Merits/Flaws:

Meticulous Planner 2 (2 fbp)
Concentration 1
Higher Purpose (Finding out what's really going on) 1
Lightning Calculator 1
Eidetic Memory 2
Computer Aptitude 2
Unbondable (3 fbp)

Unconvinced -1
Sympathizer -1
Infertile Vitae - 5

Other:

Humanity: 5
Blood Pool: 15
Willpower: 10 (+5 fbp)

I'm thinking of having my character be a conspiracy theorist who's a former Sabbat member. His sire is still in it and somewhat pissed about the whole switching sides thing. If the Sabbat is a non entity in this game, I'll get rid of the flaws pertaining to it and swap them out for other stuff.

Seth always suspected there was something fishy going on. Whether they called themselves Illuminati, Freemasons, Majestic 12, Fema, Unatco, Alpha Protocol, MIB, Society of the Blind Eye, Stonecutters or whatever, he suspected that they exist and are still active. He started poking around but stumbled upon the Masquerade instead. However, his Sire thought he might be useful and decided to embrace rather than terminate. Still, Seth remains on the vigil for shadowy organizations and plots.

[Prak]

So, even just projecting from Resources 3-5, Resources 6 would represent $50,000,000 in assets if liquidated, and a monthly allowance of roughly $100,000 (the pattern seems to be "x3, round up a bit- 3,000>9,000>30,000).

So if we each put 1 point into shared resources, and then split it equitably, our individual total assets would be nearly twice those of Resources 5 ($8.33 million each), though our individual monthly allowance would be roughly half that of Res5 (~$16k)

This would still be an increase from Kel's monthly allowance, and would free up 4 points for him.

Herd follows a doubling pattern in the core book, so Herd 6 would be something like 120 vessels. Again split equitably that means we each have a herd of 20 for a single point each. For Kel this is nearly three times his current herd size and frees up a point from him. If we each put 2 points into the group herd, our herd would be nearly 2000 individuals, and one or two people put in just a single point, or AH okays a 12 point Herd (unlikely, I think) and our herd is 8000 individuals.

I think we should definitely pool at least those, and possibly military force as well, though I haven't looked at how it scales.

[hyzmarca]

I'd gladly to throw in some points into resources (though I'm not sure about the amount just yet). What are the numbers for 6+ though?

Elder Level resources no longer take personal finances into account. Rather, at 6+ you have control over hundreds of billions of dollars worth of resources, possibly trillions, but you don't own them personally and it's all very vague.

The actual rules say

6 = Influence in one global Industry. (examples given are banking, airlines, and steel)
7 = Influence in two global industries.
8 = influence in two global industries and every industry in one country.
9 = Influence in every industry outside of Asia.
10 = Influence in every industry.

The rules, notable, do not define what "influence" means, nor do they give guidelines or limits to defining an "industry' other than the examples given.

The impression given is that if you have Resources 6 (computers) you can start telling Microsoft, Apple, and Google what to do, unless you're countered by another Elder with resources in the Computer Industry.

Though I'm fairly certain that us being the secret masters of Earth's entire economy would totally ruin the plot that AH has planned. I could be wrong.

I think we should definitely pool at least those, and possibly military force as well, though I haven't looked at how it scales.

Military force scales like so
1: 15 untrained children with weapons.
2: 25 professional cop or professional criminals.
3: 40 well-trained professionals, SWAT officers and such.
4: 75 combat veterans, hardened mercenaries or terrorists. .
5: 100 elite troops, a specil forces company
6: Several companies of combined arms.
7: A division (several thousand soldiers)
8: One Branch ( Army, Navy, Marines, or Air Force).
9: One Country
10: Forces all over the world.

Again, I'm pretty sure that having the ability to hit our enemies with NATO is probably going to break the game.

[Whipstitch]

I've got 3 points in Resources I'd be willing to add to the pool. The Followers of Set are big on drug trafficking so that'd be my vote for an industry.

[Shady314]

You can get one ritual per level in your blood sorcery discipline(s) of choice. I think Clanbook Tremere Revised has costs for buying additional rituals with freebie points.

Sadly it does not or Id have been all over it. The closest I could find was again Blood Magic which has rules for researching and creating them.

It's probably fine though. Many of us have Thaumaturgy and we can teach each other.

Pooling Backgrounds

I don't see why AH would be against Herd 12 as it'd be purely flavor. Dice pools still cap at 10.

If everyone puts in 3 we could have Herd 9 Resources 5 and Influence 2. If someone wants to put in more so you have a tech company that competes with Google or an occult library to rival Venice that's fine just stuff at 6 starts getting strange. At that point we can just assume we dominate the local economy. Then we just figure out where that comes from and who's looking after what.

Let's not pool Military Force as we don't own a PMC and so far everyone with it has a force rather tied to them personally. I don't think anyone besides Kel could make use of his forces. Plus thats one of those backgrounds like Resources where going too high eliminates any sane challenge. Id rather not be involved in the drug trade or any overtly criminal endeavor. It's an easy way to bring us down.

As we are the only vampires in the city there is no point to Status. It only gets you respect from other Kindred and there are no NPC Kindred.
Best case I can see is using it to call in Cam resources.

@AH Some rules questions having now finished reading the corebook.

Does Thaumaturgy require somatic or verbal actions or just a look? Does that mean most spells are invisible without a means of detecting magic?

Armor gives a penalty to dexterity dodge pools. Does this include reducing initiative rating?

If I had movement of the mind would that still reduce my dexterity pool if I use my mind to move it? Im thinking of throwing specifically, which is dexterity+athletics.

When spending XP current rating means the dot you have now not the rating you will gain right. So if you have 1 Strength going up to 2 is 1x4 not 2x4?

There is a ritual that is described fluffwise as using a mirror to capture your reflection. If you cast no reflection does it still work?

[Ancient History]

You can get one ritual per level in your blood sorcery discipline(s) of choice. I think Clanbook Tremere Revised has costs for buying additional rituals with freebie points.

Sadly it does not or Id have been all over it. The closest I could find was again Blood Magic which has rules for researching and creating them.

Huh. Maybe I was thinking of pre-Revised. Oh well. If you want a particular ritual above and beyond your free ones, call it 3 Freebie points each.

Pooling Backgrounds

I don't see why AH would be against Herd 12 as it'd be purely flavor. Dice pools still cap at 10.

If everyone puts in 3 we could have Herd 9 Resources 5 and Influence 2.

I'm gonna reiterate this, just to be clear. The way pooling backgrounds works in VtM and DA is that everybody puts in X number of Freebie Points, and you use those to buy up the common backgrounds. (Hell, you can buy up your own cult if you want to). So it's not like everybody buys 3 dots of background and you can just add 'em together. Other than that, it's all good.

@AH Some rules questions having now finished reading the corebook.

Does Thaumaturgy require somatic or verbal actions or just a look? Does that mean most spells are invisible without a means of detecting magic?

If the path describes it, yes. If the ritual describes it, yes. Otherwise, no.

Armor gives a penalty to dexterity dodge pools. Does this include reducing initiative rating?

Yes I'm pretty sure it does, but if anybody finds a rule that proves me wrong, let me know.

If I had movement of the mind would that still reduce my dexterity pool if I use my mind to move it? Im thinking of throwing specifically, which is dexterity+athletics.

I believe that for throwing stuff with Movement of the Mind, your path rating replaces your Dexterity.

When spending XP current rating means the dot you have now not the rating you will gain right. So if you have 1 Strength going up to 2 is 1x4 not 2x4?

Right. All costs are based on current rating.

There is a ritual that is described fluffwise as using a mirror to capture your reflection. If you cast no reflection does it still work?

Nope. No reflection, nothing to capture.

[hyzmarca]

Let's not pool Military Force as we don't own a PMC and so far everyone with it has a force rather tied to them personally.

But, but, but, I want to be able to call up Obama and tell him to nuke Greenland. It's cramping my style man.

[Shady314]

I'm gonna reiterate this, just to be clear. The way pooling backgrounds works in VtM and DA is that everybody puts in X number of Freebie Points, and you use those to buy up the common backgrounds. (Hell, you can buy up your own cult if you want to). So it's not like everybody buys 3 dots of background and you can just add 'em together. Other than that, it's all good.

Sorry If I said that poorly. I did mean 3 freebie points and since there's 6 of us, myself, Koumei, Prak, Whipstitch, Hyzmarca, radthemad4 that be 18 fbp.

Dark Ages also wrote that we need an anchor background. Do we still? I was suggesting Herd to represent a vast blood collection empire as that's basically what Domain is in Dark Ages.

If the path describes it, yes. If the ritual describes it, yes. Otherwise, no.

Sorry again. Still just a little unclear. If the path describes certain actions or rituals I obviously have to do those and that's visible. But if it doesn't describe that then can people tell I did it using normal senses? Again using Movement of the Mind as an example there's no description it's anything other than telekinesis via my mind. If I am just standing around and I decided to throw someone up into the air do people automatically know I was the one that did it?

New questions
Discipline Dots cost 7 freebie points. Are secondary Paths also considered discipline Dots? I ask because they have different XP costs. The Thaumaturgy Discipline is 10 for first dot and then current ratingx5 (Inclan) but secondary paths are 7 for the first dot and then current ratingx4 like an attribute.

You said Roads were useable but in Dark Ages Roads don't seem to be quite like Paths. You just pick one where in VtM Revised you always use Path of Humanity and there are special rules for starting or switching to others. If we choose a Road do we use the VtM Path rules?

But, but, but, I want to be able to call up Obama and tell him to nuke Greenland. It's cramping my style man.

We all want to nuke Greenland but that doesn't mean we should.

[Koumei]

It'd be funnier to nuke Iceland, because that's nominally where "White Wolf" lingers these days, or at least the last remnants of its IP holders. Also because the UK declared it a terrorist country at some point as an excuse to seize its assets.