Check out these crazy pictures from North Korea

[tussock]

https://www.google.com/search?q=citizen ... to%20gitmo

Lawyers of people detained at gitmo are not free to talk about their clients, the reasons for their detention, or basically anything at all. British and Australian citizens released from gitmo, after being captured in notorious countries like Britain and Germany, have bought court cases over being tortured. US citizens, meanwhile, are not released (or are released to Pakistan to be drone-murdered because them ending up talking to the press would be embarrassing).

There was a whole public enquiry thing, congressional, then the president pardoned all the torturers and drone pilots and lawyers who said torture was alright and also himself, because that's how the US works. You guys torture people and then murder them, and your politicians openly speak of taking folk off the streets of US cities as non-persons. It's illegal for anyone to say if that's happened, if you can prove it and you say so then you go to gitmo, so you can be tortured for years and then murdered.

--

https://www.google.com/search?num=20&q= ... re+amnesty

Yeh, I guess there's no evidence of torturing Manning if you close your eyes really hard and don't look at it.

--

I get they don't do that to middle-class white people for the most part. The kidnapping and the torture and the murder. The Kiwi and Aussies your guys drone-murdered in Dubai on their holiday were not white guys. The thousands tortured at various extra-territorial sites around the world in the name of US security are usually picked up in countries full of people who don't look like you and your mum, or sometimes Sweden, or just London, but not if they're white. Mostly.

But until the whole wikileaks thing none of this officially happened at all. It was all supposed to be crazy lies. And then it was all so obvious no one should even talk about it, and there was an enquiry that found it was all true and horrible and everyone got pardoned and nothing even changed. Not even news over there, apparently.

And your own prisons with the 20 year mandatory minimums and three strikes are mostly full of black people so who even cares, right? Most highly imprisoned people in the world over things that aren't even crimes in most countries, but not so much for white, middle-class, so I guess never mind.

--

But sure, NK, terrible place. Because their privileged class that sort of thing doesn't happen to is much smaller. And the US security apparatus mostly only tortures and murders the families of people it doesn't like in the occupied territories, which is obviously a totally different thing to ... like ... it's not white people so it's OK, or something. Sure.

--

I only complain because my government participates. Price of being in the club, we're told. All that spying on everyone all the time (that was also bullshit until it wasn't), invading countries that are "bad" while mourning the great leader of Saudi Arabia, voting for fucking Israel now and then at the UN. Cost of doing business.

When you guys have a better country I get to have a better country too, OK. Also be nice if you didn't keep forcibly exporting your laws. Not you personally, but you know, be nice if my lot didn't bend over quite so far.

[fectin]

Canadians can have non-risible opinions about human rights sometime after y'all decriminalize speech that might hurt someone's feelings. Until then, it's just sad trombone noises.

[name_here]

Tussock is from New Zealand, IIRC.

[Kaelik]

https://www.google.com/search?q=citizen ... to%20gitmo

Lawyers of people detained at gitmo are not free to talk about their clients, the reasons for their detention, or basically anything at all. British and Australian citizens released from gitmo, after being captured in notorious countries like Britain and Germany, have bought court cases over being tortured. US citizens, meanwhile, are not released (or are released to Pakistan to be drone-murdered because them ending up talking to the press would be embarrassing).

Ignoring for a moment your completely baseless and evidence free accusation that the US is tying up already detained US citizens in houses in Pakistan and blowing them up with Drones, because apparently in your universe the government can't manage to find bullets or water in Cuba:

Here is something on US citizens detained:

The United States Department of Defense acknowledges holding 99 American citizens captured in Afghanistan

Here is what I said:

The number of US citizens in the United States who have been detained and tortured for contact with terrorists is zero.

The number of US citizens who were detained for contact with terrorists while not in the US is some decidedly non-zero number.

It would be nice if you could occasionally attempt to pretend to understand the actual conversation.

There was a whole public enquiry thing, congressional, then the president pardoned all the torturers and drone pilots and lawyers who said torture was alright and also himself, because that's how the US works.

Funny how everything about this came out in the Obama administration through time travel, because there was a Court case before that called Hamdi v. Rumsfeld, and that second name by the way, wasn't employed by Obama.

Tussock, you are a fucking idiot. You don't know literally the first thing about how the US works, so you should probably just shut the fuck up. For god sakes, Obama didn't pardon anyone and can't pardon himself.

https://www.google.com/search?num=20&q= ... re+amnesty

Yeh, I guess there's no evidence of torturing Manning if you close your eyes really hard and don't look at it.

Look you fucking idiot, link to anything you actually think demonstrates that torture occurred, and I will address it, but you are a fucking idiot, stop linking to google searches. That doesn't even make sense and the first ten items don't actually support your point and I can't tell which ones you think actually do?

I get they don't do that to middle-class white people for the most part. The kidnapping and the torture and the murder. The Kiwi and Aussies your guys drone-murdered in Dubai on their holiday were not white guys. The thousands tortured at various extra-territorial sites around the world in the name of US security are usually picked up in countries full of people who don't look like you and your mum, or sometimes Sweden, or just London, but not if they're white. Mostly.

But until the whole wikileaks thing none of this officially happened at all. It was all supposed to be crazy lies. And then it was all so obvious no one should even talk about it, and there was an enquiry that found it was all true and horrible and everyone got pardoned and nothing even changed. Not even news over there, apparently.

And your own prisons with the 20 year mandatory minimums and three strikes are mostly full of black people so who even cares, right? Most highly imprisoned people in the world over things that aren't even crimes in most countries, but not so much for white, middle-class, so I guess never mind.

Oh look, the person who argues that Republicans and Democrats are the same wants to complain about Racism in America. That is cute.

I only complain because my government participates. Price of being in the club, we're told. All that spying on everyone all the time (that was also bullshit until it wasn't), invading countries that are "bad" while mourning the great leader of Saudi Arabia, voting for fucking Israel now and then at the UN. Cost of doing business.

Tussock, I really cannot believe I have to explain this, but for fucks sake, when I point out that you are completely full of shit it isn't because I agree with everything the US has ever or will ever do. Or because I am anti-reform. It is because you making obviously false full of shit statements doesn't actually help reform in any way. Every time you whine about how the US detains and tortures people in the US for calling a wrong number, and is really just as bad as NK, you are not only not helping, you are actually harmful to any attempt at reform.

Exactly like when you talk about how Republicans and Democrats are exactly the same, so we might as well all stop supporting democrats, not vote, let the Republicans win, and then . . . somehow this will help with American Racism, that isn't fucking helpful either.

[fectin]

Tussock is from New Zealand, IIRC.

Oops. Mea culpa.

Canada is still terribad on fundamental rights, but I regret the irrelevancy.

[ACOS]

@OP:
It's called Propaganda Village. It's a real, literal thing; and it is actually what it says on the tin. The money that doesn't go to the military/monarchy goes here.

For fucks sake, NK "doctors" still have to go in to the woods and harvest their own herbs for making "medicines". NK and SK are, genetically speaking, exactly the same people; yet, despite that, life expectancy is 69-vs-81, and a 3-inch height difference - a difference that is attributed to nothing other than simple nutrition.
Mix that with the fact that the gov't actively enforces neighbors to rat each other out as dissidents (even going so far as to implant spies in to villages to sow distrust within), and you've got a crazy kind of sub-human existence that is unique in the modern world.

[infected slut princess]

LOL!! Uhh. Lord Mistfuck, you are an idiot. The only thing offensive in this thread is how fucking dumb you are. Maybe you need to learn to read.

I think the person who needs to learn how to read is you, I was clearly responding to tussok. It wasn't even remotely about you

Ha! I stand corrected. I never read tussock's rambling crap so I assumed you were referring to me.

But you are still a retard, LOL.

[Occluded Sun]

Most of Western Civilization is terrible at basic civil rights - it's just that different parts of it emphasize different rights, so everybody's terrible at various stuff.

It's not immediately obvious to me that NZ should be presumed to be much better than Canada on free speech issues. Anyone who has knowledge on the matter care to enlighten us?

[nockermensch]

Most of Western Civilization is terrible at basic civil rights

This is the thread that keeps on giving.

[Reynard]

Come on. That was hardly warranted.

Challenging the "moral high ground" of the West is practically a form of art nowadays.

[Kaelik]

It is funny coming from Occluded Sun, because the "Human Rights" he is talking about don't include the freedom to not be killed or beaten for not serving your master, but do include your right to rape your 8 year old daughter over and over without government intervention.

[DSMatticus]

Wait. One of us is confusing our crazies. I thought ISP was the only one who'd done the "rah rah anarchy" thing, and OS had merely talked about the good ol' days when we were free, except the ones who were slaves, and except the ones with vaginas, and except the ones who were deviant and sinful homosexuals. Also the Civil War wasn't really about slavery, it was about States' rights (specifically, the States' right to declare that not all men were equal or free and that other people could own them).

[Kaelik]

Wait. One of us is confusing our crazies. I thought ISP was the only one who'd done the "rah rah anarchy" thing, and OS had merely talked about the good ol' days when we were free, except the ones who were slaves, and except the ones with vaginas, and except the ones who were deviant and sinful homosexuals. Also the Civil War wasn't really about slavery, it was about States' rights (specifically, the States' right to declare that not all men were equal or free and that other people could own them).

Occluded Sun is also an anarchist who thinks taxes are evil, the government shouldn't exist, and we know this because of our natural rights which are defined based on made up darwinianism sounding bullshit where everything that exists is obviously the things that should exist, except all the things that he doesn't like which obviously shouldn't.