Old Sourcebook Review: Clanbook: Baali

Josh_Kablack · Post by **Josh_Kablack** » Sun Jan 18, 2015 7:52 pm

Cover of Savant and Sorcerer. See also: page 282 of 2e Corebook.

Longes · Post by **Longes** » Sun Jan 18, 2015 8:04 pm

I love how being the infernalist is the greatest possible sin in WoD, but in the Inquisition sourcebook two out of four paths of magic Inqiusitors (humans) get are Necromancy and Demon Summoning.

Ancient History · Post by **Ancient History** » Sun Jan 18, 2015 11:06 pm

Longes wrote:I love how being the infernalist is the greatest possible sin in WoD, but in the Inquisition sourcebook two out of four paths of magic Inqiusitors (humans) get are Necromancy and Demon Summoning.

That's actually historically accurate, though; in the Middle Ages, most of the necromancers and conjurers were clerics of various stripes, because they were some of the few people that could read and write. (The rest tended to be lawyers, funny enough.)

DrPraetor · Post by **DrPraetor** » Mon Jan 19, 2015 5:00 am

I was totally unaware of this kickstarter.

I have fond memories of reading the cool bits of the Exalted game books in the store; there was an alchemical exalted book that I particularly liked.

It was hard to tell how the rules were supposed to work but it was clear in 30 second that they were a complete disaster, so I was never remotely tempted to try and play the game.

hyzmarca · Post by **hyzmarca** » Tue Jan 20, 2015 5:41 pm

Kaelik wrote:
Prak_Anima wrote:I'm not going to tell you how to form your personal code of ethics, but most people would consider "Kill half of the other group of people to save the world" to be anti-heroic at best, more likely evil when the only reason you haven't done it is because you didn't yet know that there was a point to it beyond pure jollies.
I am going to tell you how to form your personal code of ethics.

If your choices are:

All the people are dead in the entire world, including me.
or
Half the people are dead.

Then unless you hate most people and really want to be dead you pick the second one.

Any ethics system that tells you to pick option 1 when you personally don't want to be dead is full of shit.

Most ethics systems will at least require you to give yourself an equal chance of death to everyone else in such a situation.

I believe that the standard "law of the sea" thing is that when you're stuck in a lifeboat with no food then everyone draws lots to determine who will be eaten, and if you don't draw a lot but make everyone else do so then you're guilty of murder.

That is to say, while you're more important than everyone else from your own point of view, you're not, really, and functional ethical systems have to deal with the real world. Exempting yourself from the draw would demonstrate that you're acting out of self-interest more than necessity, and while that isn't automatically a bad thing it's a rather important consideration when you're dealing with other people who have to trust you to look out for their interests, or else the system breaks down.

This is the whole reason for the Captain going down with the ship cliche. When you're in such a leadership position you have to put the needs and interests of the crew and passengers before your own, or else there's a breakdown in trust resulting in a breakdown in order and discipline resulting in a breakdown of function or a mutiny or what have you.

The hero jumps on the grenade, not because he wants to but because that's his job and professional ethics require him to do so.

Longes · Post by **Longes** » Tue Jan 20, 2015 6:51 pm

Wrong thread?

hyzmarca · Post by **hyzmarca** » Tue Jan 20, 2015 7:40 pm

Longes wrote:Wrong thread?

Right thread, but probably a couple of years late.

TheFlatline · Post by **TheFlatline** » Wed Jan 21, 2015 5:45 pm

hyzmarca wrote: The hero jumps on the grenade, not because he wants to but because that's his job and professional ethics require him to do so.

I have to call bullshit.

They hand out medals of honor for jumping on grenades (More have been awarded for the act than for any other action apparently), and by definition the requirements of those are that a recipient had "distinguished himself conspicuously by gallantry and intrepidity at the risk of his life above and beyond the call of duty."

Jumping on a grenade is not someone's job or professional ethics. It's a personal choice that pretty massive stones to do.

hyzmarca · Post by **hyzmarca** » Wed Jan 21, 2015 6:00 pm

TheFlatline wrote:
hyzmarca wrote: The hero jumps on the grenade, not because he wants to but because that's his job and professional ethics require him to do so.
I have to call bullshit.

They hand out medals of honor for jumping on grenades (More have been awarded for the act than for any other action apparently), and by definition the requirements of those are that a recipient had "distinguished himself conspicuously by gallantry and intrepidity at the risk of his life above and beyond the call of duty."

Jumping on a grenade is not someone's job or professional ethics. It's a personal choice that pretty massive stones to do.

Well, in that case I'm referring to the job of "hero" rather than the job of "soldier."

Of course, it's above and beyond the call of duty for a soldier, and it's a personal choice that requires massive stones. But if you're a character who is defined as a hero, you're of course held to a more heroic standard of ethics.