Pathfinder Is Still Bad

radthemad4 · Post by **radthemad4** » Thu Dec 11, 2014 8:11 pm

Orion wrote:Yeah, although the relevance of the archetypes is limited if everyone is playing dungeonomicon monks and races of war fighters. Basically my question is whether I can run the Den version of 3.5 and tell everyone it's Pathfinder.

Definitely. Just use their skill system, their boosted races, allow their casting classes as options (and perhaps Alchemists, though they could use some boosting), their new spells, magic items, monsters, etc. You could probably apply some of the archetypes to Tome classes, perhaps converting their benefits into scaling feats if they don't want to give up existing features. Some PF feat chains could be converted into scaling feats as well, or into Tome monk fighting styles or something. If you're willing to do a bit of extra bookkeeping, you could also allow Favored Class Bonuses (you could come up with new appropriate ones for Tome classes if the existing unique ones don't work as for instance a Tome Monk doesn't use Ki) and Traits to make it feel more Pathfindery, though these probably aren't worth the extra effort involved for both players and MCs.

Eikre · Post by **Eikre** » Thu Dec 11, 2014 10:44 pm

It wouldn't be hard to write a whole PF patch to the Tome canon in like a day.

It would be a little harder to write a whole Tome patch to the PF canon. Is there a Tome Gunslinger? Because that guy has the same disparity in merit to player interest as a Monk does, and a proper Tome game would have an answer for that.

Pixels · Post by **Pixels** » Thu Dec 11, 2014 10:59 pm

Eikre wrote:Is there a Tome Gunslinger?

Koumei's Gun Mage.

OgreBattle · Post by **OgreBattle** » Thu Dec 11, 2014 11:40 pm

Eikre wrote:It wouldn't be hard to write a whole PF patch to the Tome canon in like a day.

It would be a little harder to write a whole Tome patch to the PF canon. Is there a Tome Gunslinger? Because that guy has the same disparity in merit to player interest as a Monk does, and a proper Tome game would have an answer for that.

A Tome Fighter with a gun and ranged attack feats.
A Tome Samurai with a heirloom double hackbut so he can roll 8d12 for Kiai attacks.
A Tome Monk with a gun

PF gunslinger deeds generally do less interesting things than [combat] feats, monk stances, or rolling a fistful of dice.

Ghremdal · Post by **Ghremdal** » Fri Dec 12, 2014 3:31 pm

I am in need of some inspiration. What are the really mean monsters from the bestiary assuming encounter level between 14 and 18.

Avoraciopoctules · Post by **Avoraciopoctules** » Fri Dec 12, 2014 8:02 pm

Groups of movanic and monadic devas are immune to a lot of stuff, and are good fighters with some nasty tricks. If your party is full of casters, movanic antimagic is really annoying.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monste ... emerdaemon
Can be an incredible nuisance without even getting into line of sight.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monste ... l/planetar
Shuffle around prepared spells a bit and totally ruin someone's day.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monste ... -brijidine
Some nasty battlefield control tricks.

Orca · Post by **Orca** » Fri Dec 12, 2014 11:14 pm

A few shining children (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monste ... ning-child) could set up a nasty ambush, between screen, wall of force, mirage arcana and symbol of insanity.

Avoraciopoctules · Post by **Avoraciopoctules** » Sat Dec 13, 2014 6:01 am

I'd like to run a few adventures for a mid-to-high level party. Starting at level 8 with 2 free levels for monster races and templates, and then jumping ahead a few levels at a time as the players absorb souls or bind themselves to artifacts. I've been asked to have dynamic battles with lots of special terrain, but I haven't got anything specific in mind yet. Any suggestions?

Dean · Post by **Dean** » Sat Dec 13, 2014 6:08 am

We've covered this a couple times but in Pathfinder monstrous races don't need free levels, quite the opposite really because they already get lots of free levels.

Avoraciopoctules · Post by **Avoraciopoctules** » Sat Dec 13, 2014 7:45 am

Yeah, it's one free monster level for every three actual levels. When the party jumps to level 12, some them will probably grab another template like lich or half-dragon for a total of 4 monster levels.

Koumei · Post by **Koumei** » Sat Dec 13, 2014 7:49 am

We've talked about special terrain a bit before. Like here.

But I don't think it's ever progressed beyond "a few ideas and general discussion" into "here's a big pile of stuff you can pick up and use".

MisterDee · Post by **MisterDee** » Sun Dec 14, 2014 8:05 pm

So, is there a good published Pathfinder adventure for characters that have a double-digit number on the Level line? I don't need awesome production value, but well-written box text would be a huge plus.

Ideally, I'd want something I can run through in three long sessions or so.

(Also, it doesn't have to be an actual high-level adventure. The super-extended, mid-level-but-with-bigger-fireballs playstyle that I'd expect of, say, a Paizo adventure would be quite fine.)

Archmage Joda · Post by **Archmage Joda** » Mon Dec 15, 2014 7:27 am

What would the optimal way to go be for a "time/space" mage, one who bends time and space, and controls gravity and similar effects? Kind of like the Time Mage class from certain final fantasy games? A Cleric with the Void and Travel domains? A conjuration wizard? A Time oracle? Something I'm not thinking of?

Lago PARANOIA · Post by **Lago PARANOIA** » Wed Dec 17, 2014 9:04 am

If your DM has lost their mind and is letting you use a Candle of Invocation, about how many uses can you get out of it as a cleric?

Grek · Post by **Grek** » Wed Dec 17, 2014 9:24 am

Worst case scenario: Your DM rules that you need to have the candle burning for the full 1 hour of your spell preparation. The candle only burns for 4 hours, so you can use it at most 4 times for spell preparation.

Best case scenario: You have access to tindertwigs to light the candle, an assistant (or strong winds, or your DM ruling that it is a move action) to immediately put the candle out, and your DM rules that burning the candle for any length of time during the spell preparation gives the full benefit. Four hours at a rate of one round of usage per spell preparation gives you 2400 non-gate uses before the candle is exhausted.

Schleiermacher · Post by **Schleiermacher** » Wed Dec 17, 2014 9:26 am

Assuming you mean the spell preparation usage, 4 uses. The cleric must burn the candle while preparing spells, preparing spells takes 1 hour and a candle takes 4 hours to burn down. The waters are muddied because the item description says you can get the effect by burning the candle "just prior to" your spell preparation time, but that's the intent as I understand it.

The Gate usage immediately burns down the candle (and usually the entire campaign).

Korwin · Post by **Korwin** » Wed Dec 17, 2014 9:55 am

Lago PARANOIA wrote:If your DM has lost their mind and is letting you use a Candle of Invocation, about how many uses can you get out of it as a cleric?

Unlimited uses?

Rawbeard · Post by **Rawbeard** » Wed Dec 17, 2014 10:52 am

you kinda lose the spells when the candle stops burning, getting 4 uses out of it AND benefitting from that is somewhat tricky.

Schleiermacher · Post by **Schleiermacher** » Wed Dec 17, 2014 11:14 am

Yes and no. The description says:

A cleric whose alignment matches the candle’s operates as if two levels higher for purposes of determining spells per day if he burns the candle during or just prior to his spell preparation time. He can even cast spells normally unavailable to him, as if he were of that higher level, but only so long as the candle continues to burn.

As I read it, that means if you burn the candle while preparing spells and then immediately extinguish it, you still gain +2 CL and additional spell slots at all spell levels you already had access to. The only thing you need to keep the candle burning to do is cast spells of a spell level that you don't normally have access to.

Ice9 · Post by **Ice9** » Wed Dec 17, 2014 8:03 pm

To benefit from the higher level spells, you could burn the candle during the last round of your preparation and then keep it burning while you quickly use the normally unavailable spells (on day-long buffs).

Depending on the interpretation of "while preparing spells", that means either three uses or ~800.

Also, this being Pathfinder, you could use Create Greater Demiplane to make a demiplane with the "Timeless" quality, which makes spells with a duration last forever there. While not explicitly stated, there's a decent case for the candle to burn forever on such a plane.

ishy · Post by **ishy** » Wed Dec 17, 2014 8:47 pm

Lago PARANOIA wrote:If your DM has lost their mind and is letting you use a Candle of Invocation, about how many uses can you get out of it as a cleric?

How often could a non-cleric, using UMD to activate the candle, prepare spells as if they were a cleric?

Mask_De_H · Post by **Mask_De_H** » Fri Dec 19, 2014 5:42 am

What are good Golarion gods to pick for an Ecclesitheruge? Groteus (Chaos, Darkness, Void, maybe Madness) and Cayden Cailean (Chaos, Charm, Liberation, Strength, Travel) seem pretty money to me. You think a Mister Cavern would let you create your own god with blackjack and hookers?

Orca · Post by **Orca** » Fri Dec 19, 2014 6:58 am

Sivanah (Knowledge, Madness, Magic, Rune & Trickery, and the PrC Lago keeps mentioning, Veiled Illusionist) is pretty decent.

Any domain which gets a good power and poor spells (like, say, the Animal domain with its AC but the limited usefulness of spells like Calm Animal) would be good. Archives of Nethys can give you a list of which deities get which domains.

As far as designing your own deity goes do you really need to? Golarion has no shortage of options, and Cayden has the blackjack and hookers concept if you like that.

TOZ · Post by **TOZ** » Fri Dec 19, 2014 10:15 pm

Crane Wing has been adjusted again. Also, 3.5 reach exception is back in.

Mask_De_H · Post by **Mask_De_H** » Sat Dec 20, 2014 4:21 am

Just what I wanted for the holidays: minor rules changes!

So Crane Wing works like Dodge now?