Public Intoxication in Texas

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Crissa
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Re: Public Intoxication in Texas

Post by Crissa »

I wonder if this will impact the professional conferences in Texas... Well, I'll find out.

And yes, implying that Texans are drunkards isn't too out of line when they are, by statistics, the most drunk state in the Union.

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fbmf
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Re: Public Intoxication in Texas

Post by fbmf »

You coming to a conference, Crissa?

And, yes, statistically, we do have the most drunk driving fatalities. I just despise the stereotype that we're all a bunch of cheap beer drinking red necks.

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Re: Public Intoxication in Texas

Post by Josh_Kablack »

fbmf at [unixtime wrote:1143669707[/unixtime]] I just despise the stereotype that we're all a bunch of cheap beer drinking red necks.


Never heard of that one - I though alla yinz drank gutrot Tequilla from over the border. :tongue:

Upon reconsideration, this law might not be as bad as it seems, depending on how it's used.

Obviously, arresting people for drunkeness inside a bar is insane...however if Texas is the drunkenest drivenest state in the Union (as Frank is asserting), then it probably helps the court system to have another charge they can tack on when they catch people for drunk driving, drunk and disorderly* or public intoxication. That way even if some of the charges are inadmissible or unprovable there is still a crime that can be prosecuted.
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Re: Public Intoxication in Texas

Post by Maj »

While I think they're carrying things a bit too far, I'm actually glad to see someone giving a damn about what happens before the crash.
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Re: Public Intoxication in Texas

Post by Rheldar »

I question the methods being used to prevent auto accidents by those who have been drinking. Kinda reminds me of minority report. Most of what I would say has already been stated:
1. they are carrying things a bit far, wiith "the ends justify the means" mentality.
2. In most other crimes, you are usually required to attempt to commit the act before they arrest you.
3. By arresting people in the bar, you are arresting someone before the commission of a crime, because you think they are likely to.

I think maybe they could come up with a better solution than the one they have chosen to implement. I don't drink, and I don't much care for alcoholics, but I think what they are doing is indeed not the best way to achieve the results they are trying for.
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Re: Public Intoxication in Texas

Post by The_Hanged_Man »

Just FYI peeps, these laws apply in almost EVERY STATE IN THE NATION. In CA, it's a subset of Disorderly Conduct. Your very own Hanged Man has, indeed, been popped for it in his youth.

Most states don't use it aggressively, however, b/c it's not worth the effort. In CA, we set up "churches" instead. If we bust a bar (and we do) and find intoxicated people, we set up a "church" where people are detained (a state less than arrest) until they are sobered up.

From my perspective, these laws actually make a lot of sense. It is a public safety issue. I've got several bars that I've shut down b/c they routinely sell to intoxicated, have B-girls, etc. It generally leads to fights, DUI's, shootings, etc. Bad news. I go after the bars, not the patrons, but maybe in Texas it makes sense to do the other.
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Re: Public Intoxication in Texas

Post by power_word_wedgie »

Ok, just to touch on a few points:

1) I'll just reinforce a little of what fbmf is saying: the statistic cited doesn't highlight that Texans are the people most likely to be drunk out of any state - all it is saying is that there are more people killed by someone driving drunk. There's a world of difference between the two statements.

2) Ok, though we've got it settled that people driving drunk is a problem in Texas to the point that it leads to the most fatalities in the nation, we still need to determine why that is the case. fbmf, what are the laws in Texas for drunk driving? How rigidly enforced are the license suspensions? (In case you're curious, it isn't uncommon for people who have lost their license in the US to still be driving a car) Have they thought about breath ignition switches for cars of repeat offenders?

3) If we're going to go hog wild on law crackdown, I'm thinking you're going to get more bag for the buck if you:

- Make it a stiff penalty (ie serious jailtime) for repeat offenders.

- Scale the penalty to the BAC of the person. (I don't know if this is already in place - it would make sense if it was).

- Use this swell crackdown on surveilance of people who have suspended drivers license to make sure they're no thumbing the law. If they are, they can think about it in jail for a year.

- Install breath ignition devices on cars for people who have been caught DUI.
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Re: Public Intoxication in Texas

Post by fbmf »

PWW wrote:
fbmf, what are the laws in Texas for drunk driving?


I know personally of half a dozen people who have driven on a regular basis while their license was suspended/revoked. Maybe we are all alcoholics.

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Re: Public Intoxication in Texas

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power_word_wedgie
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Re: Public Intoxication in Texas

Post by power_word_wedgie »

fbmf at [unixtime wrote:1143711523[/unixtime]]

I know personally of half a dozen people who have driven on a regular basis while their license was suspended/revoked. Maybe we are all alcoholics.

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I don't think that Texas is alone with this affliction ...
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Count Arioch the 28th
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Re: Public Intoxication in Texas

Post by Count Arioch the 28th »

I'm one of the few at my job without a DUI, and that didn't stop most of them from driving anyway.
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Zherog
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Re: Public Intoxication in Texas

Post by Zherog »

Rheldar wrote:3. By arresting people in the bar, you are arresting someone before the commission of a crime, because you think they are likely to.


But they're not being arrested because "they might drive." They're being arrested for public drunkenness. As I understand it, they don't give a shit if you're going to be driving or not; if you're obviously trashed, you're gettin' busted.

I do think it's overzealous, though. I'd much prefer to see them use this to nab folks who are going to drive drunk. Cop stakes out a bar, and sees a guy he suspects of being drunk leave. Cop watches guy get into the driver's seat of the car, start the car, and begin to pull out of his parking spot. Nail him then. You've taken a drunk driver off the streets before he had a chance to kill anybody.

Really, I see nothing wrong with somebody being drunk in public if they're not being a nuisance and they aren't planning to drive a car. You're actually punishing people for having a designated driver or getting a taxi or whatever.
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Re: Public Intoxication in Texas

Post by The_Hanged_Man »

Z, generally I agree with you. But it also depends on the bar and the people that go there. The problem with the "not all drunks are nuisances" is that if you wait til people are a problem to make the arrest, you have a problem. If you make the arrest before people are a problem, you don't have a problem.

I admit the Texas thing is waaaaay out of hand. In LA though, there are bars where I wish LAPD would enforce Disorderlies more. We get a people getting rolled, getting beaten up, etc. We also get people peeing in lawns, sex in bushes, etc. That's all good times in a college town, but I get 6 phone calls Monday morning about why my girl has to walk by used condoms on the way to school and why am I picking broken bottles out of my flowers and why did the sirens wake me up at 3 am again and. . .

Well, it's a problem. To me, drinking in a bar is a privilege. Getting drunk in a bar is, at least in some cases, an abuse of that privilege. I know damn well which bars are a problem, and if arresting a few harmless drunks at that bar stops a few problems before they can begin, do it I say.
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Re: Public Intoxication in Texas

Post by power_word_wedgie »

My biggest problem with it is:

1) As the THM has mentioned, not all people who get drunk get rowdy. Me, or example, just want to go to sleep. Hence the reason I don't like getting drunk. I fail to see how my sleeping is a public nuisance where somebody is going to be hurt.

2) They're busting bartenders. Now, if the bartender was tieing down the patron and forcing the drinks down their throat, that would be one thing. What they're doing in Texas is just unfair to bartenders. I don't know how they can seriously do their jobs now.
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Re: Public Intoxication in Texas

Post by Zherog »

I think we're talking about slightly different things, Hanged one. I'm talking about the average corner bar type place - like the "Irish Pub" about a half-mile from my house. The kind of place where people have a few drinks, have fun, then go home.

You're talking about places that do in fact need some stricter enforcement. No question. But just because those places have drunk assholes doesn't mean every place does.
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Re: Public Intoxication in Texas

Post by fbmf »

PWW wrote:
2) They're busting bartenders. Now, if the bartender was tieing down the patron and forcing the drinks down their throat, that would be one thing. What they're doing in Texas is just unfair to bartenders. I don't know how they can seriously do their jobs now.


The theory is that I am trained to recognize drunken behavior and should cut them off or slow them down before it gets to the "piss ass drunk" stage.

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Re: Public Intoxication in Texas

Post by power_word_wedgie »

Although I'm not a Bartender, I would think that the problem is that there are (a) cocktail waitresses serving people away from the bar (s the bartender can't go from table to table with a breath analyzer) and (b) in a busy bar, you can't be everyone's babysitter all night and still serve drinks.
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Re: Public Intoxication in Texas

Post by fbmf »

(A) You're right. In that case, the liability does fall on the waitress, and he/she will be arrested/fined if their patron is found to be overly intoxicated.

(B) Again, you're right. I'm just telling you what the theory is. Not what's practical.

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Crissa
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Re: Public Intoxication in Texas

Post by Crissa »

Oh, yeah, I've been going to the Austin Game Convention each year on Bruce's dime. Lotsa drinking.

Anyhow, most of these laws require you to be either very drunk, or disorderly. In CA, if you're weaving about, that's not okay, but police generally are busy with the fights, not the ones stumbling off.

We have the problem out here of having police not be able to afford to live in the city they work in... So we're a bit tight when it come to number of cops.

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