Anima, almost certainly well "beyond fantasy"

[PhoneLobster]

Oh hi there.

So OK. I have the first edition Anima card game round here. An eccentric fantasy/anime/SPANISH product. Barring one or two admittedly glaring rules oversights it was largely OK.

I have played the Anima Tactics minis game of the same setting. From the few fragments of available starter it seems really really nice. Fun, dynamic, simplistic and speedy. And an interesting very small bands of characters type of skirmish scale.

So I have now taken the opportunity to er, look at the Anima "Beyond Fantasy" RPG.

I was thinking "If its like some sort of advanced version of their minis rules it might actually be pretty reasonable, you know, freaky Spanish Anime flavor aside".

It... looks really rather bad.

Within the first couple of pages it had introduced me to its rolling mechanics (multiple).

Those alone were... worrying.

They included (but where not limited to).


Roll Type One: The Rollening
"Characteristic check" Two characters check vs their Characteristics competitively.

Its a 1d10 roll under vs your characteristic. Highest margin of success wins. Both characters CAN fail.

Fairly simple OK... but wait just so as to make life easier... Rolls of 1 are ACTUALLY results of -2, and rolls of 10 are ACTUALLY results of 13. So as to make, you know, no fucking sense, and so that the margin of success/failure system has these inexplicable kick ups at each end.


You has Attributes called Characteristics
Characteristics are like your character attributes. You have somewhere between 6 and nine million. It's not entirely clear. I think its about 8 and sometimes 9 if the GM makes you roll Appearance so all the female players can feel bad when they roll 1s and uncomfortably harassed in game if they roll 10s. But I'll be honest, I rather ended up not caring enough to go back and count.

Anyway it gives you like 4 methods of generating these abilities. All of which are random ass rolling methods, often intended to give you a pile random attributes. Out of four options NOT ONE is actually a point based option ALL of them involve rolling between about 7 and 16 d10s.

But wait these "Characteristics" are not ACTUALLY your attributes, you also have piles of other attributes. And THESE "Characterisitics" will modify your OTHER attributes. Sometimes your other attribute... thingy will just be your characteristic value copy pasted. But other times it uses look up tables and converts to a modifier for a final attribute that will end up being on a percentile scale instead!


Roll Type Two: Beyond Rolling
So talking about those percentile scale attributes, of which you have like 7 or so, again, THOSE use a different roll mechanic.

It's a d100 based one (oh yay...), but hilariously is NOT a roll under check like the characteristic one.

Sure it would make sense for the percentile scale system to be a roll under and the d10 with small attribute bonuses be a roll+bonus roll over DC system.

But INSTEAD the reverse is the case, the d100 roll adds your percentile scaled Attribute and compares it to a massive DC pulled out of the GMs ass (or something I dunno I haven't got that far and may well NEVER DO SO. I mean the DC is 349? I NO LONGER CARE WHERE THAT NUMBER JUST CAME FROM, IT IS A STUPID FUCKING NUMBER ).

Anyway that was simple enou... OH MY GOD IT'S EXPLODING FUCKING DICE!!!!!

Yes thats right. Percentile dice, percentile scale attributes, roll over DC... WITH EXPLODING PERCENTILE DICE.

If you roll a 90+ you roll again and add it to your total.

I mean *(#*$(@ that is bad enough I mean exploding dice are retarded on d6s, and utterly insane in this god damn case but WAIT THERE IS MORE.

You can KEEP exploding rolls beyond the FIRST additional roll... but NOT on a 90+.

Oh no.

That would be too easy.

The NEXT dice roll ONLY explodes if it is a 91+.

Then a 92+, 93+ etc...

Oh my fucking god.

Can this get any worse within the first 3 pages of a really big fucking book.


Even More Attributes : Beyond Available Character Sheet Space
Within the first several pages of book the game discusses a number of attributes that you will probably need at least as many (or more) pages of character sheet to actually keep track of.

We have our 7-9 "Characteristics".

We have like oh, 2-6 "other" copy paste characteristics and some "other crap" like movement or something.

We have our 7-9 "Not-Really-Percentile" Attributes.

Then you have THREE GROUPS OF 10-15 MORE ATTRIBUTES (I can't even keep track of on what scale or in relation to what roll type because I DONT CARE) that are partially derived by your Characteristics (and/or their modifiers from the 1 to 10 converted to -30 to +30 percentile look up table), partially derived from class selection, and partially derived from some sort of points based shopping scheme the accounting for which I never got into, but at this point assume works somewhat like the mathematics behind string theory.

And I'm pretty sure they haven't even covered generic bullshit skills at this point.


Fuck this I'm going to look at the pretty pictures roll on the semi naked fantasy anime chicks drawn by Deviant Artists
At this point, which remember is basically like page 4 or so of the book I just said screw it, this is never going to be good and went browsing the rest of the book.

Now this system is sold largely on its Anime theme. And on the artworks of really interesting artists working in a somewhat exploitative anime style. I mean it's all over their other shit, and their web sites and ads and junk. Hell 80% of the characters in Anima Tactics are basically Asian girls in naughty underwear, or European girls in skanky pants, pretending to be sword fighters.

WELL NO. The book has actually fairly limited artwork in that regards. Sure it was closer to that than say, WOTC, but really there were not all that many sexy anime girls loitering around the pages, many of them were NOT up to standard artisitically many of the pictures were very small and either cropped or shrunk to fit in among the mountains of horrible horrible rules.

And half the illustrations in the book were BW line drawings that weren't even in an anime style (and for that matter not very sexy, literally or metaphorically, either).


The rest of the book is stupid Spanish Anime fluff right?
The Anima setting of Gia (or whatever they are calling it) is a complex world of many factions, iconic characters, forehead anime aliens, confused and poorly informed Catholic religious metaphors and lots of total bullshit.

It's apparently a major selling point in the attempts to push this product.

So you would THINK that after the rules clusterfuck in the first few pages it would be all over except for the yelling at me about all that stupid fucking fluff.

BUT NO. Sure there is a fair bit of fluff but it is laced, NO, saturated with a HUGE amount of additional crunch. The rules NEVER EVER END OH MY GOD THEY DO NOT END.

This book is kitted out with rules that would make Rolemaster say "Hey, wait, which table did I have to roll on again?"

It just will not end.


So how does combat work then
I DON'T FUCKING KNOW I DIDN'T READ IT, GO AWAY!

However I DID happen to stumble across a FULL PAGE er... THING... called a "Combat Table".

It REALLY filled that page, I'm talking packed. It ranged from Results from -301 to +400 (it actually says +400, not 400+, not sure what that means...) and each row represents a NINE point range in those Results (except the first and last rows which are inexplicable 1 point ranges).

You get this Result, from your ass or something, then you cross reference it with, er... "AT" which presumably is some sort of "Characteristic" since it ranges from 0 to 10 (but I hadn't noticed it before so it probably also comes from your ass).

This then gets you a cell on the "Combat Table". In which there is a result that could be -blank-, C, or +5C to +150C in increments of +5C, or a percentage between 10% to 400% in increments of 10% (with no plus symbols in front just to be different to the rest of the table, whatever that means).

There is a clear pattern here, these AREN'T just randomly distributed entries on the table. But the +C scale (all in the negative "results" rows in the top of the table) are flat accross all values of AT while the % results from the positive results rows in the bottom of the table scale differently, and in some cases don't even start at the same time, for different values of AT.

Now what the fuck all that means I have no idea. Other than that is one big fucking table of big fucking stupid fucking numbers.

Then half a page later there is a similar "Combat Damage Table". The numbers on which look like they should make more sense, since some of them are not in fact letters, but really, no it's pretty fucking insane too.


So I mean at least that's it right
What? Hell no. There are like at least three distinct magic systems and a fighting maneuver system and a martial arts school system all of which have huge stat crunch packed chapters and appear to be some sort of incredibly complex points based do it yourself spell builder arrangement, only different to each other (of course) with separate stats to generate and track and junk.

Don't even TRY and be one of the cross magic type/combat type characters, that HAS to be an accounting nightmare.


So then THAT is it
And then the GMs section began. What with all that having been the Players Guide section.

I was all "This Book is Fucking Crazy" then suddenly it was all like, hey dude check out my next title heading, it reads "Book Fucking Two".


Beyond Fantasy : Also Beyond My Ass
Ok so I went in expecting something that looked a bit like a naughty spanish anime themed loose and fast stylish simple almost miniatures game type rules set.

Instead I found what appears to be Rolemaster alive and well in Spain living under an assumed identity as part of an RPG protection program.

Wearing a false mustache and telling me all about the hot Asian chicks in lingerie it was fucking but only showing me crude hand drawn pencil sketches of moderately attractive women trying not to make eye contact with Rolemaster at renaissance fairs.

[Maxus]

This is a shame.

One of the REASONS I have a Deviant Art account is a guy who does stuff for Anima. He is awesome.

Ah, well.

[PhoneLobster]

I'm still messing with anima tactics however. IT looks OK. Mind you I wouldn't put it past these guys to pull a bait and switch, or perhaps more acurately a running start from their starter sets followed with a massive face plant when I can finally get hold of the real rule book for the miniatures game when it comes out... well NOW if I weren't in fucking Australia.

[angelfromanotherpin]

Yeah, I remember when this first hit the store. 'Oh, cool, look at the classes and the customizability, and so on. I'ma roll a character, see how it looks.'

I could not finish character generation. About what I'm going to guess was 70% of the way through, it became very unclear what the next step even was. I'm not new at this, I've gone through the madness of Rolemaster and Heroes Unlimited and similar. A:BF straight-up trailed off mumbling partway through chargen. It loses a coherence contest to Kevin Siembieda.

[Koumei]

Yeah, I wanted to review it but I didn't know where to start, it's that bad. Using the "Start at 100%, lose 1-5 points per bad thing", it was down to a failing grade before I was even at enough rules to complete a character sheet.

[Endovior]

Ah, yes; Anima. As it so happens, I'm actually playing in an Anima game that started last Monday. Naturally, no actual roleplaying happened this Monday either, as the whole of both days was taken up entirely by character creation. We're almost finished, though. My current opinion is that the system, on the whole, is not as bad as described... but it does require at least as much effort to decipher as Rifts. Given that we are quite explicitly playing Anima in an attempt to play something that is not Rifts (a serious concern when the group is roughly half Rifts fanboys), I'm still currently of the opinion that we're better off.

[Koumei]

The worst problem is that, even ignoring that you could seriously end up having to go back and re-do stuff multiple times (trying to take X ability, but discovering you need to re-work X, Y and Z to do it, or taking the "I get extra XP" advantage and discovering you then get to gain another level), the book isn't even laid out in the right order to make a character step-by-step.

Well I say the worst problem, but really it's just the most immediately irritating problem.

[Korwin]

I'm reading it at the moment, its strangly fascinating.
At least until this point, it doesnt looks so bad as "The Dark Eye". But thats not saying much.

I have played the Anima Tactics minis game of the same setting. From the few fragments of available starter it seems really really nice. Fun, dynamic, simplistic and speedy. And an interesting very small bands of characters type of skirmish scale.

Can you say more to the Tactics game? How connected are those two games?

So I have now taken the opportunity to er, look at the Anima "Beyond Fantasy" RPG.

Roll Type One: The Rollening
"Characteristic check" Two characters check vs their Characteristics competitively.

Its a 1d10 roll under vs your characteristic. Highest margin of success wins. Both characters CAN fail.

Fairly simple OK... but wait just so as to make life easier... Rolls of 1 are ACTUALLY results of -2, and rolls of 10 are ACTUALLY results of 13. So as to make, you know, no fucking sense, and so that the margin of success/failure system has these inexplicable kick ups at each end.

I darkly remember, if there is a differnce of X (dont know how high), you count the points beyond the difference double. Or something like this.

You has Attributes called Characteristics
Characteristics are like your character attributes. You have somewhere between 6 and nine million. It's not entirely clear. I think its about 8 and sometimes 9 if the GM makes you roll Appearance so all the female players can feel bad when they roll 1s and uncomfortably harassed in game if they roll 10s. But I'll be honest, I rather ended up not caring enough to go back and count.

Anyway it gives you like 4 methods of generating these abilities. All of which are random ass rolling methods, often intended to give you a pile random attributes. Out of four options NOT ONE is actually a point based option ALL of them involve rolling between about 7 and 16 d10s.

Well, the fourth method is almost point buy, if you close your eyes and sing loud.
Er, if you use one roll for the whole group.

But wait these "Characteristics" are not ACTUALLY your attributes, you also have piles of other attributes. And THESE "Characterisitics" will modify your OTHER attributes. Sometimes your other attribute... thingy will just be your characteristic value copy pasted. But other times it uses look up tables and converts to a modifier for a final attribute that will end up being on a percentile scale instead!

And sometimes you multiply it with another number, which you buy up, to get another number. (its magic!)

Roll Type Two: Beyond Rolling
So talking about those percentile scale attributes, of which you have like 7 or so, again, THOSE use a different roll mechanic.

It's a d100 based one (oh yay...), but hilariously is NOT a roll under check like the characteristic one.

Sure it would make sense for the percentile scale system to be a roll under and the d10 with small attribute bonuses be a roll+bonus roll over DC system.

But INSTEAD the reverse is the case, the d100 roll adds your percentile scaled Attribute and compares it to a massive DC pulled out of the GMs ass (or something I dunno I haven't got that far and may well NEVER DO SO. I mean the DC is 349? I NO LONGER CARE WHERE THAT NUMBER JUST CAME FROM, IT IS A STUPID FUCKING NUMBER ).

Does it help, that there is a table

So how does combat work then
I DON'T FUCKING KNOW I DIDN'T READ IT, GO AWAY!

However I DID happen to stumble across a FULL PAGE er... THING... called a "Combat Table".

It REALLY filled that page, I'm talking packed. It ranged from Results from -301 to +400 (it actually says +400, not 400+, not sure what that means...) and each row represents a NINE point range in those Results (except the first and last rows which are inexplicable 1 point ranges).

In Anima the attacker rolls attack, the defender Block or Dodge. Take the Attack roll - (minus) Defense roll = a number

You get this Result, from your ass or something, then you cross reference it with, er... "AT" which presumably is some sort of "Characteristic" since it ranges from 0 to 10 (but I hadn't noticed it before so it probably also comes from your ass).

Belive it or not AT is the Armor, which they named Armor Threshold.

This then gets you a cell on the "Combat Table". In which there is a result that could be -blank-, C, or +5C to +150C in increments of +5C, or a percentage between 10% to 400% in increments of 10% (with no plus symbols in front just to be different to the rest of the table, whatever that means).

There is a clear pattern here, these AREN'T just randomly distributed entries on the table. But the +C scale (all in the negative "results" rows in the top of the table) are flat accross all values of AT while the % results from the positive results rows in the bottom of the table scale differently, and in some cases don't even start at the same time, for different values of AT.

If defender rolled better, you got per the above calculation an negative number.
That C means, you are allowed to counterattack, the +number is the bonus you get to your counterattack. The better you defended yourself, the better you can counterattack.
If the attacker rolled better, the percentage number shows how much % of your damage you make.

Now what the fuck all that means I have no idea. Other than that is one big fucking table of big fucking stupid fucking numbers.

Clear? Apparently there is an new/errated spanish version, where they did'nt print the table, but the formula...

Then half a page later there is a similar "Combat Damage Table". The numbers on which look like they should make more sense, since some of them are not in fact letters, but really, no it's pretty fucking insane too.

You make - to pull a number out of my ass - 70 damage. But at the last table you saw, you only make 70% damage. So if you dont want to calculate 70% of 70 damage, you can use this table...

So I mean at least that's it right
What? Hell no. There are like at least three distinct magic systems and a fighting maneuver system and a martial arts school system all of which have huge stat crunch packed chapters and appear to be some sort of incredibly complex points based do it yourself spell builder arrangement, only different to each other (of course) with separate stats to generate and track and junk.

Don't even TRY and be one of the cross magic type/combat type characters, that HAS to be an accounting nightmare.

To be honest, I like this one. (Well I did'nt read it really in detail...)
But the KI-Subsystem is - Fighters get nice thinks.
Magic System, well I dont have a glue at the moment, with how much spells you start.
Summoning-Subsystem of Magic, I think I will need to get into the GM-section for the creatures.
Psionics, will be next chapter on my list.

[PhoneLobster]

I'm reading it at the moment, its strangly fascinating.

Sadly as the somewhat fuzzy review indicates it couldn't hold my attention very long before offending me.

Can you say more to the Tactics game? How connected are those two games?

OK, but not about anything else you hear me NOTHING ELSE!

The tactics game has the same setting, same organizations and same major named NPCs.

It appears to have a rather dramatically different rules set with an entirely different design philosophy. It should work pretty well for skirmishes of about 6ish characters aside. It is sold as miniatures with rules cards and counters and the miniatures range from crap to OK to actually remarkably excellent.

I however intend to reserve judgment until I get my hands, one day, somehow, perhaps, on the actual main rule book for the Tactics game. Because Spain has burned me on miniatures rules before. I'm looking at YOU "Infinity", your buggy, mildly incoherent, fairly obviously flaw ridden, translated free "Beta Rules Document" looked promising, until it turned out that it was word for word your actual final rules product!.

[Psychic Robot]

PL and I agree on something for once. anima is beyond shit.

[Gx1080]

Is the whole being-an-iminatuion-of-animu (which tends to be already shit) thing that turned me off. Same with Infinity.

But then, I still like my Space Marines. So YMMV.

[icyshadowlord]

This is a shame.

One of the REASONS I have a Deviant Art account is a guy who does stuff for Anima. He is awesome.

Ah, well.

This made my day. I have an account there because I stalk people and do something nobody else does on that site: Upload written works instead of drawings (though I do have some drawings of my characters on my gallery anyway). Also, this Anima scares me...a lot, but I have NEVER seen it here in Finland.

[Silent Wayfarer]

So I gather Anima is confusing as fuck, but is the art worth it?

[Korwin]

In my opinion, yes.

But, you could get most art by deviant art anyway (I think).
And, if you only want the art, I think I remember an Art book....

[Drolyt]

iminatuion

?

[Lago PARANOIA]

Don't bother, Drolyt, Gx1080 fucked off to Stormfront or wherever years ago.

[Shrapnel]

To be with other people who can't spell?

Fun fact: Googling "iminatuion" brings up two results: One for something about deer hide, and the other a link to this thread.

[Dogbert]

I warned people about Anima in the past. You opened that book at your own peril.

[Prak]

You would think that making an RPG based on a minis game would be fairly straightforward. I mean, if your minis game is successful at all, it probably has a combat system that people are at least able to vaguely understand and willing to use, so you should just add character creation rules, social stuff, and maybe scale combat down.

But thinking that's what people do ignores pretty much the entire history of "Hey, our wargame is popular. Let's make an RPG!"

[Koumei]

Animu Enema Anima Minis is a Skirmish game, so you have a higher emphasis on individual doods and each model having its own abilities rather than unit coherency and "these ten guys are identical except one is dual-wielding, one has a flamethrower and one has a bazooka". In other words, it's already so fucking close that just adding a character creation + advancement system is basically all the work they need for the combat.

Sure, they could make it more individual-focused and complex if they wanted to (or have an optional aspect to that, so MC can chuck down ten Disposable Ninjas that are simple to use while each player character has an array of tricks). But half the work was done already.

And they then set that work on fire and wrote up these weird fucking parry tables and crap. It could have been good (or at least acceptable), but they spoiled it. Still, if you went and paid for it, I guess you can get a kick out of the complex character creation thing.

Ultimately, Anima serves about the same purpose as the less-disgusting Exalted books: you give it to a teenager so they can get into roleplaying as a side effect of something they can use for a quick wank. Except they have the internet on their phone, so it's kind of pointless these days. I tell you, kids these days.