Angry Drunk Review - 5e Monster Manual: A Modern Relic

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Post by Occluded Sun »

Since when have vampires not needed to eat? (Well, consume.)
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Post by Username17 »

If your typing system can't handle a Dracolich being a Dragon and an Undead, your typing system just went full retard.

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Robby wrote:I don't remember creature categorization in 2E. How'd they handle it, there?

I seem to remember creatures being called "undead" in their description, an that the term in-and-of-itself carried no weight. You had to find immunities in the monster description, or look at effect to see if they did anything special to undead.
2e didn't bother categorizing things at all, and just wrote down whatever special rules and interactions for creatures however they felt like or remembered to when writing up any particular monster. This was total bullshit, but still better than what 5e is doing.

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Post by Whipstitch »

As an aside, the whole "can't crit the undead" business hits me as kind of dumb anyway, particularly since crits aren't necessarily an instant death effect. I understand that we've all seen fiction where a zombie or skeleton no sold a sword thrust but I'd also point out that in the same fiction catastrophic strikes are still routinely presented as the only blows that accomplish anything at all.
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Post by nockermensch »

Whipstitch wrote:As an aside, the whole "can't crit the undead" business hits me as kind of dumb anyway, particularly since crits aren't necessarily an instant death effect. I understand that we've all seen fiction where a zombie or skeleton no sold a sword thrust but I'd also point out that in the same fiction catastrophic strikes are still routinely presented as the only blows that accomplish anything at all.
To use with Lago's tagging system, immunity to critical hits should be a characteristic of the Amorphous type. So an animated object, a mist or an ooze could rightly benefit from this, but most undeads shouldn't.
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Post by name_here »

Whipstitch wrote:As an aside, the whole "can't crit the undead" business hits me as kind of dumb anyway, particularly since crits aren't necessarily an instant death effect. I understand that we've all seen fiction where a zombie or skeleton no sold a sword thrust but I'd also point out that in the same fiction catastrophic strikes are still routinely presented as the only blows that accomplish anything at all.
Crits represent hitting somewhere important, which is why immunities co-locate them with sneak attacks. Catastrophic blows are what you get when you roll a lot of damage or have high strength.
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Post by John Magnum »

It seems very strange that zombies should be immune to critical hits, considering how famously you have to shoot them in the head.
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Post by Whipstitch »

Name_here, I've heard that interpretation before and the only thing I'm unclear about is if it's a really stupid conflation of ideas or a really stupid division of the same idea. D&D's an abstract system, you can't voluntarily aim for stuff and even if you could it'd weird to me if going for the spine of the skeleton or head shotting a zombie is no more or less effective than just hacking at whatever bits happen to be closest to you. I'd be completely fine with crits having no more explanation than "and you hit it as well as you could have hoped to have hit it."
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Post by tussock »

John Magnum wrote:It seems very strange that zombies should be immune to critical hits, considering how famously you have to shoot them in the head.
You can model that really well by saying Zombies have AC 20, with fuck all hit points.

High level people like Buffy don't need a special "crit undead all the time" mechanic, they can just hit AC 20 all the time. Low level people can shoot at and stab Zombies all day and not have any effect. Them rolling low represents them not knowing the special killing shot, and/or not being able to hit them there anyway. Shaun of the Dead.

As for 3e's critical hits, they're kinda rubbish anyway. It's like they give you a free attack you have to roll and then you can't even spread it around if the monsters are weak.
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Post by Occluded Sun »

Buffy the Vampire Slayer isn't a very good example - the dynamics of her party are based around drama, not combat. Buffy routinely faces monsters that her friends and allies can't touch in combat because 'combat' isn't what that game is about. They contribute in other ways.

Shaun of the Dead also isn't a very good example, because it's easy enough to figure out how to take out the zombies for Shaun and Ed to stumble onto it by accident, and they actually destroy/disable a fair number of zombies. They're flailing about ineffectively only during their very first encounters with the beasties.
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Post by Krusk »

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Lets just get back into it, I doubt you care the reason.

Elementals
These have always been weird, and still are. The picture is awesome and I think supposed to show the elemental chaos? Its got a lot more air than I would expect for that region, but whatever, its still pretty sweet and inspires the sort of high magic, otherworldy stuff everyone loves about DND that 5e does not support. Anyway, onto the monster. Yes monster. Those of you who read earlier will recall that elementals are a creature type. They are also a type of creature. Enjoy that. Sure older editions did it, but this is a new one. Clean some shit up. Elementals have always occupied a weird space. Its totally in lore to bind them and force them to do stuff, or to your jewelry or whatever. They have also had ints in the 6-8 range. Meaning they totally speak, are sentient, and generally just a little slow. Somehow this is always marked as "Ok" and "not terrible" but its also the equivilent of powering your water wheel by putting a mentally handicapped person in it and asking him to run. To me, and maybe I'm crazy, thats pretty evil. Onto the description. It says elementals have little sense of being, but apparently their int is low human. So thats either offensive, or poorly thoughtout. Probably both. Honestly, the fluff makes them sound like constructs, not dumb dudes. It says they are little more than animated energy. How that has an int different than a construct is a mystery to me, and they did not use a new edition to make it make sense. Some elementals are apparently bound into new shapes (somehow? Drink). Thats how you get most of the "elemental creature type" creatures that are not the creature "Elemental". Thats sort of new, and means that somehow genies and gargoyles (to come later) are formed from bound elementals. This is roundly ignored everywhere in this book except this paragraph so you should probably just do the same. New stuff. Now there is only one size elemental. Because apparently no one wants to fight elementals bigger or smaller than large ever. Good luck rewriting modules now, because any elemental gaurdian is now a large CR 5 foe. I get that they are basic foes, but they generally appear and survive in pretty hostile (high level) areas. Most of the elementals are described as having emotions, faces, and goals. So again, fuck that "mindless beings cool with being slaves" thing.. The book even goes into how you can bind them, suck the DM off, and how people totally do all the time. Just no mention of how shitty it is. Encounter wise, they are all actually pretty solid at CR 5. They have air form powers, and earth glide, and swim speeds, and flight. Stuff to make them interesting. I wouldn't complain if I had to fight a bunch, but their fluff is so bad and contradictory.

Elves
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yes, I know what you are thinking. "Krusk, didn't you say they don't have racial stats in here? Are you a liar?" and the answer is yes, and yes. See, they don't have racial stats for elves here. This entry is for Drow. Its under "Elves: Drow" so you can't find it quickly by flipping to the Ds. its also the only elf in the book. This makes no sense, and isn't repeated for Dragon: Gold, or Elemental: Air. I think its just elves being special. Note, the art for the drow is terrible. I like abstract art, but this is just hard to see. Its super blurry, and you can basically make out two purple shadows in a lighter purple cave, and they have white hair. It doesn't give a good look at drow at all. Because its Drow, there are like 15 versions, so Ill talk about them all. In general, you get the same normal lolth V other elves story. Goes into how they are underdark slavers (like everyone else in the underdark, I guess) and doesn't mention driders at all which seems weird. Here is a fun Variant on the main entry! If drow with magic items go into sunlight, those items lose their magic powers (Drink for the fuck you to players). Yup this bull shit is back. You fight mirror mode parties, kill them, and then don't even get their loot. Giving drow these magic items doesn't increase their CR somehow. (Drink for shitty CRs) It goes on about how drow are dicks, and the next page has a drow who doesn't look anything like the previous picture. Both in art style, but also in general appearance. This one is black with white hair and wears black. So maybe sometimes they are black and sometimes they are purple? who knows, but also who cares? It goes into the whole matriarchy thing, but then actually decides to back pedal a little bit compared to other editions. It says "male drow can fill almost any function in drow society". The only limits are they can't rule a house or be priests. So it doesn't sound like its such a strict matriarchy, when your boss, his boss, and his boss are all dudes, with his boss a woman. It kind of makes them come off as figure heads, with the "only house leaders and priests can be chicks" thing. Oh also, apparently most of the drow arcane casters are dudes. So they mechanically probably hold real utimate power. Next we get double page spread picture in the style of the first, and this ones probably sweet even if hard to make out. I wouldn't use it when showing people what drow look like, but since this is a bigger setting shot its fine. The actual stats kind of piss me off. Mostly because the Drow out of the book ha different stats than your Drow PC will. You know. Because you should go fuck yourself. Players shouldn't read this anyway (Drink). The drow elite warrior is CR 5, but doesn't seem to have any special powers outside of a crossbow and parry. I'd expect PCs to mow through him. Also of note this is the first time Drow alignment is mentioned. Drow are apparently NE now, not LE. I'm not sure I ever bought any justification for it, but its changed now. Glad they don't justify the new alignment here at all. Prior editions with LE Drow should just convert and run society the same way, but with a different name. This is probably the most damning thing I've seen for the L/C is stupid camp ever. The drow mage is CR 7, but has spells so he could be cool. He is a TPK if he gets ambush (he has greater invis, he will) and if not, 6 archers can pick him off fast with 12 AC. He comes stock with greater invis, fly, black tentacles and cloudkill. If your DM reads the entry before throwing drow at you, he will kill your party. If not, you can probably stomp him. Oh also, he has a 50% chance of having a CR 4 dude with him. No idea if you get XP for that guy though. The highest drow is the CR 8 Priestess of Lolth. Unlike the mage it gets crappy spells, and probably would get destroyed by the party. Yes its a cleric (probably?) but it was built by mearls, and so has a high int and super high charisma but doesn't turn undead. So its like your friend who built a healbot. Shit, its even got healbot spells like resistance, protection from poison, and mass cure wounds. They can summon a CR X Yochlol which is that stupid drow only demon. That could be cool, but it also only has a 30% chance of success and damages you if you fail. So you probably don't try. And thats Drow. Fuck Drow.

Empyrean
I cannot believe that this made it past the cutting room. They are stupid in concept and execution. These are huge dudes that are somehow CR 23. It throws elemental bolts so you probably can't kite it, but other than that its literall a CR 23 bruiser. Its got some legendary actions though, so this is supposed to be on the same level as beholders. Its legendary actions are "hit dude" "buff allies" and "hit dudes and knock dudes down". Its kind of lame, and if it were the apex of a campaign I'd be pissed. Also, the art is shit. Fluff wise they are the children of the gods of upper planes and are basically supposed to be mini almost gods. Sometimes they are evil, and they don't follow their parents. For reference, reading the fluff and looking at the pic you think Hercules. Looking at the stats is astonishing. Like you read it 2-3 times and go "oh apparently this is CR 23".

Ettercap
Still humanoid spiders, and they still sound kind of neat. Its basically the same fluff, just condensed. They have a variant giving them a free grapple on melee hit power. It doesn't seem worth a variant, and like it should probably just be part of the stats. They are CR 2, and its not suprising. They are kind of lame, but have a neat web blast power and poison, so it might be an interesting encounter. Not awesome, but I'm not mad. That ups our count to 4 monsters I don't hate and we are almost halfway through the book.

Ettin
This is back to that badass art, and i'm a big fan. Ettins don't fit into the giant heirarchy they will explain later. Because whoever wrote that apparently was locked in their own room and not allowed to talk to anyone else. Their fluff makes sense, and I kind of enjoy the bickering aspects. Pointing out the two heads have the same gender seems like an important detail they should have forgotten, and I'm suprised they didn't. It ties ettins to orcs a bunch, which is weird, but probably traditional. Ettins are CR 4, but with an AC of 12 means they will be torn apart by most parties as it doesn't do a lot of damage. Its wakeful power is nice and flavorful, and could even be considered worldbuilding. It mentions that when one is sleeping the other is awake. Underwhelming for CR 4, and if it weren't for its non-interaction with the giant club, I wouldn't hate them/this book.

Faerie Dragon
This is a tiny chaotic good dragon that is a pain in the ass. It is generally invisable and plays tricks on you and laughs. It doesn't say what sort, so I imagine that the sort of DM who uses them is an asshole, and the kind who doesn't won't. The picture has a stinger, but the stats don't include one. Its a CR 1-2 dragon, so for that its actually really good. Its got superior invis, flight, SLAs, and a breath weapon. The SLA depends on its age, and it ages through the chromatic spectrum. It gets dancing lights/mage hand/minor illusion, color spray, mirror image, suggestion, major image, hallucinatory terrain, or polymorph. Some are obviously fight enders at CR 1 or even 2. Some are not. It depends on the luck of the draw I guess. Its also got a save or die breath weapon that hits one creature. It either causes you to run away, or stand and do nothing. I can't bring myself to hate them, but I also can't see a use for anything. This is probably a decent monster though. 5.

Flameskull
The art is the same thing as a demilich and I have no idea how you can tell them apart as a PC. This is CR 4 though. They are insane, and fashioned from the skull of a dead wizard (somehow) like a demilich. It dimly recalls its former life, but is totally insane like a demilich. It reforms if you break it like a lich, but not if you hit it with dispel magic or remove curse. Which kind of makes you think PCs should get them, but you don't. Its a CR 4 foe with 13 AC, but I'd bet they are TPKs. They get spells, and at CR 3, its 1/day fireball is pretty lethal. Its also got magic missiles, blur, flaming sphere, and generic eye rays for 10 damage. It isn't clear how its ressurection power works. It gets its HP back in 1 hour, but I'd be inclined to say it gets spells back too because it reforms a new flameskull? but maybe not. Its not clear so just trust your DM. The art looks like a sweet sugarskull.

flumph
Drink. speaking of terrible bullshit they should have cut. Next up is the Flumph. The art is actually decent, even if the subject is stupid. Apparently they drift through the underdark glowing the color of their mood. They live near psionic dudes and are parasites, but are careful not to take too much from the evil mind flayers or aboleths. Apparently they live in a society called a cloister that is basically a communistic ideal. They are LG, live in the underdark, and CR 1/8. I don't see them lasting long and serving as anything but slaves/food. I basically just hate this entry beyond reason, and if my DM threw one at us I think our session would break down as we berated them.

Fomorian
These are CR 8 huge giants in the underdark. Being huge seems like a bad idea in a cave, but apparently they are into it. These also don't factor into the stupid giant heirarchy. Apparently their misshapen-ness comes from being beautful and nice, and then pissing off elves and the fey. Someone cursed them and now they are freaks who live in caves. Somehow their weirdo hunchbacks prevent them from throwing rocks, which just sounds incorrect. It also prevents them from wearing clothes. Again, that sounds wrong. Anyway, they are more bruisers, but they have an evil eye power that forces a Charisma save. If you fail its psychic damage for some reason. They can also can do it where you get super deformed and lose a bunch of stuff. This is 1/short rest. PCs can throw the deformity off with a long rest, which seems like a weak curse. "You are a freak until you go take a nap".

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Fungi
This section has some decent art. The color drawing looks neat enough for fungus, and the black and white one looks like a dick. So, both are winners. DND has a long standing tradition of making fungus monsters. The problem is, that you can just walk away from them. So its less of a monster and more of a trap. But this is DND Traditional edition, and so we keep all our old problems and fungi are monsters. It explains the lifecycle of fungi neatly, but then throws out how they don't need sun or warmth. Thats... not super true. Go turn the light on your fishtank on for a week without an algea eater. Watch that stuff grow. But I'm not a fungus doctor, and maybe this is kind of true for some stuff. Or maybe its true in DND land. Who cares. This time each sub-type of fungi gets its own bolded entry, which seems like a new standard for layouts. I kind of wonder if each author was also responsible for his own formatting, and they just didn't bother? Gas spores are first. These apparently used to be beholders which is sweet. Somehow they also have the memories of beholders and if you pop them and sniff, you get the beholders memories. If thats a thing you want. Shriekers are next, and they are exactly what they say on the tin. There is no reason this is even a trap, let alone a monster. VIolet Fungus is last, and it is a walking plant. It shuffels at you and slaps at you for basically 0 damage. These are all a waste. They range from CR 0 to CR 1/2. None are worth using ever. Maybe shriekers as a gaurd for a lair, but you seriously just write a terrain piece for the underdark that says "Slippery slime. Sometimes slime is slippery and pools. People slip, DC 10 check not to. Shrieking Fungus. Some fungus is loud as shit, and people put it near their doors. If you go in, it yells".
Last edited by Krusk on Wed Oct 22, 2014 10:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Night Goat »

Algae are protists, not fungi. Fungi really don't need light.
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Post by Wiseman »

Elemental's always interested me as monsters. Maybe I can make them more exciting as one of my monster projects...
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Post by Username17 »

Old school Drow used to be CE because they had a rigid hierarchy and massive slaveholding. Because as we know, a nation with strictly held traditions, extreme social class stratification, and unchangeable edicts from a thousand years ago is chaotic.

The Duergar had pretty much exactly the same spiel, but were LE instead, because the nine part alignment thing never made any fucking sense at all.

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Post by nockermensch »

FrankTrollman wrote:Old school Drow used to be CE because they had a rigid hierarchy and massive slaveholding. Because as we know, a nation with strictly held traditions, extreme social class stratification, and unchangeable edicts from a thousand years ago is chaotic.

The Duergar had pretty much exactly the same spiel, but were LE instead, because the nine part alignment thing never made any fucking sense at all.

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This would only make sense if each individual drow felt oppressed and paranoid all the time by their society's mandates and was always scheming to attain more personal freedom. And because they're evil, they want to get this freedom by stepping on each other, instead of working together. Meanwhile, the duergar are basically happy with their situation more willing to actually work together.
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Post by erik »

nockermensch wrote:Meanwhile, the duergar are basically happy with resigned to their situation more willing to actually work together.
Ah that's more like it. Happy Duergar just sounds wrong.
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Post by infected slut princess »

People should stop worrying about the Lawful/Chaotic thing so much. Just pretend they represent a false dichotomy that deeper understanding would ultimately reconcile -- like free will vs. determinism or the self vs. the other -- and just play the play the damn game.
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Post by Omegonthesane »

infected slut princess wrote:People should stop worrying about the Lawful/Chaotic thing so much. Just pretend they represent a false dichotomy that deeper understanding would ultimately reconcile -- like free will vs. determinism or the self vs. the other -- and just play the play the damn game.
This presents an issue when faced with two literally top-tier supernatural factions who omniloathe one another whose whole reason for existing is this false dichotomy.
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Post by tussock »

@Law vs Chaos: No we can't just give it up.
Omegonthesane wrote:This presents an issue when faced with two literally top-tier supernatural factions who omniloathe one another whose whole reason for existing is this false dichotomy.
So, like the Communist dictatorship of the Proletariat who controlled everything for the benefit of the people as one nation, and the Fascist Reich who controlled everything for the benefit of the nation as one people.

Which is probably more accurate than I intended, because like the Drow, the Fascists were racial supremacists who considered genocide a useful tool for opening up living space for the blue bloods.

CE: Hero-worshipping fascists full of usurping assassination plots and mystery cults.
LE: System-worshipping communists full of usurping assassination plots with no cults allowed.

That seems to work. NE would have to be the grim fatalism of doing whatever will stop them both in their tracks, and also that city full of refugees because it was there and we had to fireball something or it's just wasting them. Which in the underdark is the Svirfneblin.
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Post by Windjammer »

FrankTrollman wrote:Old school Drow used to be CE because they had a rigid hierarchy and massive slaveholding. Because as we know, a nation with strictly held traditions, extreme social class stratification, and unchangeable edicts from a thousand years ago is chaotic.

The Duergar had pretty much exactly the same spiel, but were LE instead, because the nine part alignment thing never made any fucking sense at all.

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By the time we get to Salvatore, drow are portrayed as a theocracy ruled by a priest cast at the mercy and whim of a CE deity not hesitant to kill off the most loyal of her priests if it so pleased her. So, a highly rigidified society for the most part (think of the station of males, for one) but a high degree of chaos at or near the executive level, comparable perhaps to Stalinist Russia during the years of the purge and in marked contrast to more 'stable' forms of totalitarian regimes in Europe as in eg the waning years of Francoist Spain.

By contrast, duergar seem to not have a similar element of executive chaos in their societal constitution.

Ways to counter this suggestion:
1) at best, a retroactive justification (by late 1e/early 2e) of what remains a perplexing oddity in the context of early 1e
2) not a faithful rendition of drow society in 1e or 2e
3) based on a misconception of duergar society in 1e and/or 2e
etc

So, I'm trying to make sense of the drow/duergar societal (not individual) alignment contrast, but certainly lack the knowledge to make a solid case for it. Any takers?
Last edited by Windjammer on Sat Oct 25, 2014 3:28 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Post by Username17 »

Duergar didn't have a lot of culture writeups on them in any edition that I know of. Historically they served the primary purpose of being an excuse to add new player characters or replace dead ones in the middle of an underdark adventure because their prisons held people with adventurer levels for no reason.

About the only things that are special about their society as depicted (other than the slaves and mysterious Enter The Dragon style holding pens) are their riding spiders and the fact that they really like gray. Apparently their economy is that whenever they create or acquire a usuable item it is immediately distributed to someone. And they are less affluent than other Dwarves. I think that might have been intended as a parody of Soviet Communism, but it is in reality a hyper privatized libertarian system. The state owns nothing and all items are placed into private hands at the first opportunity.

So really, Duergar are rather extreme libertarians. Everything in their society is owned by someone, including lots of the people. We're looking at Rapture, not Animal Farm. But there's no reason to believe that Gary Gygax was politically and economically aware enough to understand that is what he was writing. I think they just get a list of miscellaneous bad traits and they end up Lawful at the end of the day because they are Dwarves, and Drow end up Chaotic at the end of the day because they are Elves.

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Post by OgreBattle »

How about we just replace Duegar with Dwarf Fortress's dorfs? Like they're all very silent but have communal bonds and can sense when somebody close to them has die and any possessions a duegar has when he dies becomes free to claim immediately.

With the occasional fey mood to create amazing objects of power, or their own death.
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Post by Krusk »

In light of the newest erratta for the basic DMG v2, and how you should ignore CR I'm not really sure how relevant this is and generally think everyone should write off the edition entirely now. Erratta before the books are printed is a new low. I'll go ahead and mark that as the official end of the edition.

Galeb Duhr
Speaking of stupid monsters the designers should have cut. Next we have the Galeb Duhr. Even its name sounds like someone is mocking it. "Gay" "duhr". I genuinely don't think anyone has ever used these outside of randomly opening the monster manual and picking a CR approperiate foe. These are 6. Apparently these rock like creatures are smarter wiser and more charismatic than humans which is interesting, but not crazy. The fluff makes them seem kind of dumb, but this isn't the first instance of the fluff not matching stats. It says spellcasters can summon them, but it doesn't say how. Druids can also catch them and make them gaurds, but it doesn't mention how and druids don't have some sort of "Force rock dudes to do what you say" power that I'm aware of. So that probably just isn't true. As I'm thinking, they basically have all the same powers as that rock guy from the never ending story. But are way smaller. Its very obvious these are stolen from that, but that isn't a bad thing. They have that "Fuck you" pretend you are rocks power that means you don't get to roll to see them that this edition/book loves. IT probably sucks in combat because by this time you can fly and it has a 15 ft move speed. It can roll at you somehow and go 30ft but the book doesn't mention what that actually means. If they roll downhill they go 60 which is cool, but again, no idea what rolling means. Its not a movement mode listed anywhere else and I have no idea what you can and cannot do while rolling. They can also animate boulders which seems super strong. They animate two boulders that have the same stats as themselves with an int and cha of 1. Weirdly enough, it doesn't say those boulders don't have the "animate boulders" power. So presumably, you can have chains of this. So if you fight one, I'd expect to fight hundreds. But it only lasts 1 minute, and its move speed is 15. Even the dwarf can slowly walk away.
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Gargoyle
5e really pushes the idea that Gargoyles aren't just "Rock monsters that pretend to be statues and beat stuff up" but actually have a whole society and evil club they are members of. I don't really understand why, because thats a cool enough concept it made a pretty popular TV show. But apparently they are both, dudes who pretend to be statues, and also cruel jerks that way with those stupid birds from entry 1 Aarakocra. They also have some creator that they don't consider a god Ogremoch, who has no affiliation with ogres. He is a prince of elemental earth which isn't a diety or a demon prince or anything discussed anywhere in this book. You'd think it would be if its so important. These are winged CR 2 foes so if the DM gives them ranged weapons its a TPK. by default they fly into belee with you. So you then beat them up. they have resistance to a ton of stuff including most weapons so its probably a pretty decent challenge even without ranged weapons for CR 2. Its also got that "Fuck you" hide power.

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You'd think for a game thats nothing but shameless knockoffs of famous stories, they might have used friendly or at least neutral gargoyles. I can't even find recognizable evil ones.

Genies
They take a big section on genies to make them a bigger deal than before. They aren't the dude from alladin. Apparently they are from story and legend, but are also CR 11, and live in places people go often. Apparently they are born when the soul of a sentient living creature melds with the primordial matter of an elemental plane. Not sure when or how that would happen, because I thought the gods got their followers and people with no followers went to some underworld. It doesn't matter though, because a genie retains no connection to its former soul. So this doesn't even matter. Genies don't mate with one another, but might mate with mortals for fun. There are not stats for noble genies anymore, so I won't get into that arguement again. (1 in 100 of hundreds of thousands is quite a lot).

Dao
Dao are apparently earth genies. I've never heard of them, but I don't really care much. They have no particular empire like the djinn or efreeti and come off as the second fiddle "We need one of each element" genie. Somehow they are different than other cruel and mean genies because they never assist a mortal unless they have something to gain. At CR 11, id feel bad fighting one. Its got some decent 1/day spells, but other than that it just flys up and hits you. Phantasmal killer and plane shift being the only good 2 spells. So it hits someone with that, then plane shifts away.

Djinni
This is one you care about. These are also the ones you have heard of. They fly around in sweet floating pirate ships and are air pirates. You have no idea about this because they don't talk about it in the monster manual. Read the players handbook for this bit of info. This book just talks about how like all djinni they like slaves, and unlike all djinni, they turn their legs into whirlwinds. Seems weird that they don't talk about the only cool part here, but they honestly probably had not read the entry in the players handbook yet. Also, somehow powerful wizards can summon and bind them and force them into service (wish granting). Somehow these things are CG and slavers. That just doesn't make a lot of sense to me, but 5e has been really bad about alignment. Its AC is slower, but its faster. I'd feel worse fighting this than I would the Dao. At least they get phantasmal killer. tHese guys just get planeshift, and then nothing. So you see one, it runs away and plane shifts. On the page with djinni, they felt the need to include variant genie powers for all genies. So sorry if you didn't think to look here while running a different monster. You miss out. This is where it explains wishes and disguises. Apparently they can cast disguise self at will with "a longer than normal duration" whatever the fuck that means. "mighter genies can cast true polymorph". Anyway, they also don't talk about which one is mightier, considering each genie is the same CR and each type only gets one entry. It also says that the limit to true polymorph is self only. Unless they are part of "a rare few". So its not a limit.

Efreeti
These guys live in the sweet city of brass. One of the most recognizable interplanar destinations in all of DND. It gets a half line mention in the entry. Instead it talks about how their legs turn into fire when they fly, and they are jerks unlike all other genies. (all genies say this). Its almost a copy paste of the previous entry with all nouns swapped, and adjectives being thesarused. It mentions their apparent war with the dao but makes no mention of their war with the Azir. Which is weird considering the Azir entry doesn't shut up about the efreeti. Or it would be if this wasn't a 5e book written by a bunch of people in silos. Same entry as all other genie stats. They suck. This one is faster on the ground than normal, and flies better than a dao but not as good as a djinni. Its unique spell is wall of fire, so they can't even cast in a way you care about. These at least have a ranged attack though, in that they can throw fireballs for pittly damage you don't care about 120ft.

Marid
This is the water genie. Its got the same entry as the others, but doesn't even have anything cool that makes it different. Oh but they do mention that its a crime to interrupt them, so expect your DM to monologue forever, and when you zone out actually have the bad guys attack you for not listening. Somehow these slavers are CN. They have nothing worth casting, and their stats are worse than all the others.

Art wise for genies, the dao is that terrible 4e style, the Djinni is awesome. The Efreeti has a cool style and a pic I don't like and the Marid looks weird, bu well done.

Ghosts
This is another template that isn't a template. Apparently all ghosts are the same. Giant 4 headed troll? Turned into a medium chick. Pixie? Nope, human chick. The real winner here is that this isn't the only ghost in the book. Because remember, earlier we had the special elf ghost. This is different somehow. Its art is bad in a way that makes it look unfinished. Like this is 2 steps before completion. It talks about unfinished buisness a lot which makes sense for ghosts, but doesn't seem to have a lot of other info on them. All ghosts are CR 4, with 11 HP. This means the real way to get rid of a ghost is to hit it with sticks. Because it isn't immune to those, and doesn't resurrect later from what I can tell. The ghost can move through walls and creatures but if it does it takes damage for ending its turn there. Thats ironic, considering the ghost can also possess people and go inside their body. Presumably this doesn't cause the damage, but it might. If you see them, you make a DC 13 wisdom throw and then ignore it. In the off chance you fail, you are out of combat and your party hits it with sticks. Except you get a save every round, so you get over it real quickly. If you fail by 5 or more, you age by 1d4X10 years which is kind of cool. Age doesn't seem to affect anything in 5e, and I don't think there are even rules for dieing of old age. Its possession power is a DC 13 charisma save so you might actually fail. If you do, it steals your body and it just runs around forever inside your body immune to everything except spells, attacks, or other effects that target undead. Its also kicked out if you die. If you don't have a cleric with you you are kind of screwed. Which is balanced by beating it with sticks i guess? Basically it hides in a wall (taking damage). Jumps onto the fighter. Then runs off and hides while killing him. Rinse and repeat on everyone. Then your high charisma sorcerer beats it up. Or if your DM is dumb, you see one, and everyone runs up and kills it in round 1 of combat because it can't survive any attacks. Its basically the definition of a glass cannon.

Ghasts
Ghasts get no entry. So basically fuck you. They don't get a big bold header, but if you read up on Ghouls, you can see what Ghasts are. Their stats are a CR 2 monster who is hard to turn and smells bad. Its also a glass cannon.

Ghouls
Ghouls are basically sentient fast zombies. They love to eat flesh and are undead. For some reason the book goes on about their abyssal origin and how the first ghoul was Doressain, and he got in a fight with Yeenoghu the gnoll guy, but you really don't care. The wierd part is that some elf god helped them out, and now ghouls can't hurt elves. Because elves are special. Reading their stats, their claws paralyze everyone but an elf or undead with a DC 10 con save. So everyone always makes that. You also get to save ever round and it only lasts a min anyway. So its not even worth tracking.

Giants
I've bitched about giants a ton. So here I will finally explain their terrible club thing they have. But first I'll talk generic giants. The cloud giant castle art is sweet. The book talks about how way back when the giants were the shit, but now they aren't. Seems legit. It says the race is almost as as old as dragons which is cool, and goes into how dragons and giants used to fight and are bitter rivals. Thats a shame for giants, seeing as they are at best CR 13.

The Ordning
The Ordning is the terrible giant club/ranking system. Its a dumb name that doesn't really tell you much but thats fine, and fitting. Because the ordning is dumb and doesn't really tell you much. Basically each of the "main giant races - Cloud, fire, frost, hill, stone and storm" are related. They apparently have a strict class structure and social class that is highly organized. Each giant knows hwere it falls and no two giants are equal. This cast is also racially divided and taller giants are cooler. It specifically calls out that a hill giant chief is less than common stone giant. Which much suck for the hill giant and I wonder how this is enfored/why they care? I know i I were the hill giant chief, I'd completely ignore it, or at least write my own. With hill giants on top, and blackjack and hookers. The ordning gives no benefits to the giants, but it apparently is strictly followed. If you care its Storm - Cloud - Fire - Frost - Stone - Hill - GiantKin (ettins, and shit who make no mention of it). Basically this idea is stupid in game because it does nothing except voluntarily put a bunch of dudes as subserviant to other dudes with no cost/benefit/reason other than a shrug. Its stupid out of game, because now you can't add bigger giants. You can't include any giant more powerful than a hill giant, or its Ordning puts it below hill giants. Hill giants are CR 5. I googled the name and don't think this is from prior editions, or really anything.

Cloud Giant
These are the dudes from jack and the bean stalk. They live on clouds and basically just hang around up there not doing much. Now this is the first giant entry, but its 5th paragraph makes a point to say cloud giants ignore ordning and put themselves at the top all the time and storm giants are cool with it. This page has a picture of the different giant's boulders. Because these aren't normal rocks, no these are special rocks. So a storm giants rock has coral and stuff. This is stupid. They are CR 9, have a boatload of HP, and do decent damage. They have some shitty spells, and a rock throw power. The art makes him look like he has fangs, but I think thats supposed to be piercings. the fangs and "Silver" (totally looks like a light gray black) make him really look like a vampire. If i used this as a character portrait for a WOD Vampires game people would mock me for being euro-trash vampire instead of high class noble vampire.

Fire Giants
The fire giant entry is all about how they love war and forging weapons. Its actually not bad in general, and they actually seem like they could be real antagnoists for a game. They are also CR 9, are basically the same thing as cloud giants but probably better. Instead of spells they get less HP, and better AC. They also have no noticable smithing abilities on their stats. Which is weird. The picture is just gannondorf and thats a shame because it could have been awesome.

Frost Giants
These have always been my favorite giants. The entry seems to make sense. They are basically vikings who live in ice. It mentions they never rob banks because they don't care about money which seems interesting. This art is pretty badass, so all in all I'm not upset. They are also just bruiser CR wise.

Hill Giants
Hill giants come off the exact same as ogres. It claims they have the ability to eat anything, but they have no stats to reflect this. I'd like to have seen a bite attack, and maybe the ability to swallow medium or smaller or something to reflect this. They are CR 5 and you can clearly see that all giants are copy/paste +X per level formula.

Stone giants
These are the ones that live in caves which just seems entirely stupid for a giant. person. Caves are hard to get around for a normal person. They are CR 7 and are the only giants who can catch rocks.

Storm Giants
The storm giant page has a height comparison for the various giants and a silhouette which is kind of cool. The also chose this place for where to put an entry on giant gods. Its a neat little entry for world building and provides a decent summary of giant religion in 3 paragraphs. Storm giants all come off as Odin from Marvel comics. The image they paint is a huge dude with a beard sitting on a throne scrying on stuff, and occasionally coming out to knock the other giants in line. Their lack of involvement is also probably a big part of why the Ordning falls apart. Because the leaders are absent. The art looks pretty sweet, and it even got two flying ravens over him to drive home the odin similarities. At CR 13, they are a little more weighty. They get worse spells than cloud giants, but are better at melee. Also, to deal with ranged foes they have a 500ft lightning bolt attack. It does AOE 12d8 damage dex save. Thats actually pretty brutal and I don't feel bad seeing these as CR 13.

Overall giants do a decent job of making you care about them, but it would be a lot better if they were more interesting foes. Even more so if they ignored the dumb Ordning and instead set them as rival factions. Maybe even used is as an opportunity to shake up which giants are core. Maybe fire/frost/Storm/Cloud/Death. then just straight up steal magic 5 color thing. With their occasional, but not very strict "Allied with 2, rival with 2" thing. Or do Frost/desert/ocean/forest/Hill and make them region specific. This is like what your teachers put on your report card. "So much potential. Try harder. I expect more from you. I know you can do better than this".

Gibbering Mouther
This is a DND Classic. Apparently made from foul sorcerer, but no indication of what type. it liquefies you and you join it. Its got a speed of 10ft, so most of you can just walk away. It specifically makes noise so you can't be suprised by it. Somehow if you get within 20ft of it, you have to make wis DC 10 saves (so you probably pass). On failure, you suffer basic confusion effects. Hit the wrong people, stand around. That sort of thing. If you end up within 15ft of it, it can spit at you and blind you for a round. Its kind of useless, but it can do it as the same action as a bite, so why not. Basically these things alert you to them. Then if you decide to go fight them you just kill it. Or walk away. It doesn't really matter either way. It has +2 to hit with its attack, so it generally will always miss everyone. The picture is neat.

Gith
The gith have a sweet picture on their main page. It absolutely makes you want to play one or read about them. Well you can't play them, so too bad, but maybe you can read about them. They take forever explaining the overly complicated gith history, and its basically the same as always. This would have been a decent opportunity to scrap it honestly. Maybe just straight up say its an example of two parallel evolutions. They biologically appear the same, but survived in totally different environments and thus have different cultures. One is ninja monks who fight mind flayers, and the other is astral knights who ride dragons. Instead you get the convoluted backstory. I get that you keep this shit for the old school vibe, but this is what you clean up. I think this was playing it safe, and in the end you have a sweet setting picture and a stupidly convoluted setting that you just don't care about. There are two stat blocks for each race. The Githyanki have a warrior and a knight. the knight is more powerful but by names you probably can't tell. These are the ones with red dragons, so you'd think they would explain how they got that sweet deal. They do not. Statwise, they have "Psionics" which translates to "Sometimes stuff has spells that don't need components. thats psionics. But other things have spell powers that don't need components. Those are spells. There are also spells which do need components. They are also spells.". Anyway, none of them are good so you don't care. The CR 8 knight has plane shift. (Seems like every monster in this book has planeshift). The CR 3 is probably a legit warrior making 2 attacks for 16 damage each, rocking 17 AC and 49 HP. The CR 8 knight has 18HP, for a little more damage. If you are in the astral plane, their home, they can force you to become trapped if they hit you. Otherwise they are just melee dudes. The CR 8 ones kind of suck, because they are just dudes with swords. At CR 8. Thats boring. The Githzerai are monks and one is actually called a monk. The other is a Zerth, which they define as "Strong monk". They are CR 2 and 6. The 2 one is basically just a bag of dicks because its a monk. It has low AC, decent HP, and low damage. The Zerth has phantasmal killer once a day which isn't bad. Everything else about them sucks. So they generally suck too. But what can you expect from monks. Its not like its a new edition, so someone might take an opportunity to make them decent or anything. The pictures are OK, but nothing to write home about.

Gnolls
I wish they just stole franks write up, but they don't. Instead its all about how they attack people because they like to eat them and are demons. It does include the quote "gnolls rarely build permanent structures or craft anything of lasting value" which kind of echos it, but they come off more as post apocalypse cannibles than anything else. Which is normally pretty cool, but would be a lot better if they get rid of the whole demonic aspect and just made them a race of cannible wasteland scavengers. Instead you get a bunch about how Yeenoghu made them and blah bla blah. No entry about being led by a woman which seems interesting. The pic looks weird, like his head was shrunken by a witch doctor. Gnolls get 3 stat blocks. A gnoll, a pack lord, and a Fang of Yeenoghu. Gnolls are a legit CR 1/2 monster. They only do 4 damage, but even at level 1 you are fighting 8-9 of them. And when they drop someone they get to move and attack again. I can see that mowing through the townsfolk quick. The CR 2 pack lord has the same power, but can also let his buddies make free attacks. Its kind of neat, but they get less cool as they go up in ranks. The Fang is CR 4, and has no fun powers. Just a poison damage boos on his bite.

Gnome, Deep (Svirfneblin)
I honestly think these and duegar came about because drow were so popular. "Lets make more evil mirror mode races". The pic is pretty sweet. The rest of their entry is basically just the entry for gnomes again. Somehow this lets them throw out blindness/deafness, blur and disguise self. thats actually makes them kind of legit. They have 15AC and poisoned dart attacks so for CR 1/2 foes this isn't bad. I'd add them to my "Don't hate" list if there were anything in their fluff to make them not just normal gnomes.

Goblins
Goblins are always a mess. No edition ever keeps a consistant idea, and being a single book in, 5e keeps the tradition strong. Its got 3-4 different visions of goblins and all sort of seem a little different. It talks about how they live in abandoned caves in huge swarms. It talks about how they follow kings or hobgoblin/bugbear chiefs who have empires spanning multiple lairs. It talks about how they keep rats and wolves. They are really all over the place. And a lot of these ideas could be tied together, but instead they just aren't. also, they bring out some goblin diety you don't care about that each section of goblins worship in a different way. Thats kind of neat, but overall its just one more diety in an already cluttered "I don't care about this bullshit" pile. The goblin art has already been torn apart elsewhere for being terrible, but its terrible. The opening bit mentions goblins, goblin bosses, and goblin kings. No stats for goblin kings is kind of a let down. Goblins are goblins. they have a suprising AC for CR 1/4 but otherwise just shoot bows at people for decent damage. The Goblin Boss gets 2 attacks and is CR 1. He can also swap places with an ally within 5ft to let them take the attack as a reaction. Thats actually kind of fun and neat. Especially for goblins.

Golems
Golems start off telling you how to make them which is amazing for this book. Downside is its a reference to the DMG saying "Buy a manual of golems". Golems are bound elementals and somehow doing this isn't evil or bad, but it is for a lot of other stuff. It kind of comes off as a "When I do it, its good when you do it its bad" sort of thing.

Clay Golem
Clay golems are made of clay. Duh. They are apparently made by priests and you will notice the first fun part about golems in its entry. All golems have a beserk condition. This condition means that whenever X is done, it just runs around bashing stuff. So the only thing the book tells players how to make has a good chance of killing them. Fun. Its CR 9, but has a move speed of 20ft, and an AC of 14. I can't see how you are threatened by it. The art looks pretty shitty too.

Flesh Golems
I get it. Frankenstein is a book. DND has necromancy. Frankenstein is a zombie. Get over it. New edition is time to fix things. They did not. Flesh golems are somehow neutral. Which is weird considering their bit about unaligned at the begining of the book, and considering all other golems are unaligned. There is no reason for this difference. Flesh golems are CR 5, and thats probably decent enough. Their AC is 9, so you always hit them but they have a decent ammount of HP for that level. It basically just runs around and clubs people and hates fire.

Iron Golem
The iron golem has a sword. Not sure why but this bothers me. Give it a sword hand, or something. Its a golem. Why have it hold the weapon? These guys are CR 16 so you know they are awesome. It absorbs fire and doesn't even go beserk! thats pretty sweet. Other than that it hits you with its sword, has 20 AC, 210 HP and tanks you. It als has a poisonous gas cone for 15 ft which is actually decent. DC 19 con save or 45 poison damage. Anyone with flight or a decent move speed can just laugh at it though.

Stone Golem
CR 10, and basically the same thing as an iron golem but no fire immunity. Weirdly enough this golem has no elemental play things, where it is immune to one element and is instead healed. It does have a slow power but thats about it. It also is totally destroyed by flight or mobility.

Gorgon
This is a CR 5 iron golem. Thats not what it says, but thats what it is. Its a metal monster that spits a poison. Whatever. Its got 19 AC and 114 HP at CR 5, so its decent in combat. It can probably outrun you too. It can knock dues down if runs at you which is kind of cool. It also has a breath weeapon to petrify people in a cone, but its a con DC 13 save, so I dn't expect people to save. Its a 2 save or stone forever though. So its nothing to laugh at. concept wise, this should have been cut. You will see at the end why I bring this up so often.

Grell
Someone did a lords of madness review and mocked them. They are stupid, but I think they are neat. They are super intelligent floating brains with tentacles and beaks. They hunt dudes who get too close and are a low CR abberation. Thats a decent market to occupy. The blindsight makes them pretty weak, but at CR 3, its not a huge hinderance. They are medium with reach and if they hit you you are paralyzed (low con save to ignore, with repeated saves each round). While I like grell these are not CR 3. You could print them at CR 1 or 2 and no one would blink. 12 AC, +4 to hit for 7 damage. A paralyzed save you will pass. A listed escape DC instead of a "fuck you you are grappled" power. Its just lame. Nothing is mentioned on society which is probably a good thing.

Grick
The grick is a wormlike monster that ambushes and eats stuff. thats what the description says and thats basically true. The art is really solid if the perspective on the face is a bit off. For some reason the grick gets 2 stat entries. The Grick and the Grick Alpha. They both basically have a climb speed, and multi attack with tentacle damage. Thats the gist of them. The CR 2 one is worth keeping, but the CR 7 one seems lame. Its also large, so this horse sized worm is supposed to ambush you. Not sure if stealth rules exist, but thats probably not going to work.

Griphon
Griphons are a classic solid monster. I'm also always a fan of the bits they include for these about how they are horse eaters. They are CR 2 and decent enough for it. Low AC, and flight. But no flight powers, so they fly up and hit things. I'd have liked to see a cool "Fly up, grab you, fly off and drop you" attack routine, but they don't seem to have any method of doing that. It says you can train them as mounts, but it doesn't say how in anyway. just that its time consuming and expensive. Then it throws a note to DMs to make sure it eats people's horses when you bring it in town.

Grimlock
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I wish.

these are underground blind cave people. They are such jerks their eyes fell out and now they hit everyone with clubs. Really these are sad and pathetic. They live in the underdark, and it describes how everyone uses them as slaves/food. I don't see how these aren't wiped out, because they are also evil jerks. So if you do decide to help them? They club you and eat you. So its just these horrible dicks who live in horrible servitude/farms and kill anyone who tries to help them. It makes no sense, and occupies no needed niche. Fuck these things.

And thats the G's.
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Post by Night Goat »

So, both devils and giants have hierarchies that would need to be retconned out if they ever added more. It's like they're expecting 5e to be DOA.
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tussock
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Post by tussock »

Grimlocks? Whut?

OK, so they're now an ancient tribe of cultist humans "debased" by cannibalism to their present state of servitude to the Illithid. That's, really? Why? Oh, right, Chris Perkins. Dude loves him some sin passed on down the generations, boy howdy.
PC, SJW, anti-fascist, not being a dick, or working on it, he/him.
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Dogbert
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Post by Dogbert »

Krusk wrote:Dao are apparently earth genies. I've never heard of them, but I don't really care much.
I've heard Dao named here and there but I lack solid references of where they fall into (non d&d) djinn hierarchy. AFAIK, the hiearchy was ghul<ifrit<marid (none with a particular elemental affinity, given how they're all made from smokeless fire), and I only know that because of a very cultured friend of mine and having read The Thousand and One Nights (or at least having read as much as I could take, stupid book is the magnum opus of misogyny).

Funny how even in the information age the amount of readily available sources of Muslim folklore are still barely a step above Fuck All.
Last edited by Dogbert on Thu Oct 30, 2014 12:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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