Increasing immersion

[nikita]

Few weeks back I was chatting with one game designer and question of immersion came up so I thought out this is something worth discussing.

Role-playing games do not have rules that make players to role play. Role playing is a voluntary activity that comes from immersion of Player to game being played.

Which are most important methods that in your mind allow and/or increase immersion?

[hamstertamer]

Few weeks back I was chatting with one game designer and question of immersion came up so I thought out this is something worth discussing.

Role-playing games do not have rules that make players to role play. Role playing is a voluntary activity that comes from immersion of Player to game being played.

Which are most important methods that in your mind allow and/or increase immersion?

Anytime a player makes a decision that his character would make, that player is role-playing. RPGs have had many elements that have assisted in role-playing such as D&D's alignment system, class codes of conduct, and Hero's disadvantage system.

[Sakuya Izayoi]

Immersion comes of keeping character motivations and player motivations aligned

So when you have to fishmalk for Drama Points, or treat any potential interaction that might come to the use of deadly force as a suddenly level-appropriate JRPG encounter, those are the sorts of mechanics that drag you out of your second skin.

[pragma]

For one campaign I instituted a table rule that anything a player said would be strictly interpreted as in-character speech unless they explicitly disclaimed it. It was the most immersive game I've ever run. However, I was running the game for some experienced players whom I knew very well; I don't think a rule like that works super well for brand new players or people who aren't exactly on the same page.

That said, people are tremendously willing to invest themselves in avatars (see the entire micropayment economy, especially Tencent because a billion is a lot of dollars), so the general approach of allowing players to customize an avatar will generally invest them greatly in the avatar's safety. Once the players are invested, you just need to put the avatar in legitimately threatening situations to keep players hooked.

[Concise Locket]

Disbelieve the notion that immersion is a passive reward that GMs provide to players. Proper alignment of player and character goals is 80% responsible for immersion. By the same token GMs should reveal how player characters are perceived by NPCs, provide challenges that reflect the focus of the game, and know the most commonly used names in a setting (or be able to fake it convincingly).

As a shared goal and to address disparities between player and character knowledge, both PCs and GMs should understand how a player character processes a piece of information gained from an external source.

[OgreBattle]

Which are most important methods that in your mind allow and/or increase immersion?

Naturalistic language to describe character actions

For a significant amount of people, even relatively minor things like measuring things in 'squares' instead of 'feet/meters' is immersion breaking. 4e did a poor job of wording encounter/daily powers for fighting dudes too so it felt like hitting hotkeys instead of role playin' on a tabletop.

[Stinktopus]

Disbelieve the notion that immersion is a passive reward that GMs provide to players. Proper alignment of player and character goals is 80% responsible for immersion. By the same token GMs should reveal how player characters are perceived by NPCs, provide challenges that reflect the focus of the game, and know the most commonly used names in a setting (or be able to fake it convincingly).

As a shared goal and to address disparities between player and character knowledge, both PCs and GMs should understand how a player character processes a piece of information gained from an external source.

A lot of this.

As a GM, I ike to have a character that travels with the party, generally in a subservient role, who acts as a voice for the setting and prompts in character conversation. So, the party might be introduced to a "Kestrian," and Timmy the Mercenary whispers, "E's a Kestrian, watch your purse and don't agree to anything about 'protection.'" Then, I don't have to pull out of the moment to say, "Kestria's known for dishonest deals and organized crime."

[fectin]

I'm not convinced that "immersion" is a top-level goal. It's certainly good in some ways, and can help a game tremendously, but trying to force it is often less good than just accepting that tonight, you're playing a wargame.

In order, my preferences are:
1) Play a high-level diplomatic game with crunchy underpinnings
2) Play a tabletop wargame with a story
3) play a rules-lite game
4) play a tabletop wargame without a story
5) play a "rules-lite" game
DFL) play a crunchy game with funny voices

[Avoraciopoctules]

If someone asked me to plunge them into a highly immersive experience, I'd probably respond by running this

[Koumei]

I'm going to be honest here: when I saw the thread title, I assumed it was a silva thread.

That I've seen, any kind of thing which exists to "force/encourage immersion via roleplaying incentives" (bonus XP for "being in character" when they really mean "being notable so that the DM notices and says that was very in character", strict Alignment systems, gaining Willpower for "doing that kind of thing in any situation") is just a pain and inviting trouble.

Whereas if you simply make the rules work such that people take actions that you would expect characters to take, and where people don't have to make fucking weird in-character explanations for the mechanics of the game, then it just happens naturally. Characters will proceed to act in the way that characters should act, and players will get as involved as they are personally comfortable doing (which depends on their personality, their attachment to their character, prompts from the MC and other players, how they're feeling that week, having good NPCs to work off, etc).

[erik]

I'm going to be honest here: when I saw the thread title, I assumed it was a silva thread.

Yeah. I saw it and said "Fuck."

Then saw that it lacked an ursine provenance and was pleased.

I've played games that give you beneficial tokens when your hindrances cause you problems encouraging players to own their foibles which often are only expressed via role play immersion. I suppose that felt like about the right level of incentive.

[fectin]

If someone asked me to plunge them into a highly immersive experience, I'd probably respond by running this

That is amazing, and perfectly written.

[Concise Locket]

Prior to play, GMs and players need a two-box pre-flight checklist when selecting a system and setting.

1. Does the game's basic engine match the setting and the focus of the game? If not, the character intentions will eventually settle into matching the system.
2. Do the rule sets for character achievement and improvement match the setting and the focus of the game? If not, the game is missing 50% of the reason why gamers game.

If the answer to either is 'no' the bones will separate from the meat of the game and become a distraction.

Immersion is also reliant upon table behavior. If I can see the edge of a GM edit or if I'm stalled out waiting on player research/number crunching, I'm pulled right out.

[Ravengm]

I've found that there are two good ways to get people invested.

• 1.) Simply make an interesting game. If the plotline is boring, cliched, and uninspired people will take notice and check out mentally at the door, then spend the next 3 hours playing a wargame. If you actually give people a reason to give a shit and do some (at least) cursory research/prep work, they will be interested and much more receptive to immersion.
  
  2.) Character creation is a super personal process. If you hand someone the character sheet for Dark Lord Fuckblade and tell them to start playing, it doesn't matter how much ass he kicks, they're not going to care about the grand House Fuckblade lineage you've mapped out in the game world because they didn't have any personal input on it. Give players control of the fluffy aspects of their character and they'll automatically have some investment.

Granted, there are going to be some people that just can't bring themselves to give a shit no matter how hard you want them to, so there is such a thing as a lost cause. Just let them play a dwarf named Carlos, it'll be fine.

[silva]

I'm not convinced that "immersion" is a top-level goal. It's certainly good in some ways, and can help a game tremendously, but trying to force it is often less good than just accepting that tonight, you're playing a wargame.

This. I think player investment is a more important goal (or a top-level goal as you say) than immersion, if that makes sense.

*edit* Also, immersion is a very personal thing, what provokes immersion for some don't have the same effect for others. I remember having difficulty immersing in games like D&D that uses classes and levels some time ago. Then I got a new group that played class-based games and learned to cope with it.

[Chamomile]

That I've seen, any kind of thing which exists to "force/encourage immersion via roleplaying incentives" (bonus XP for "being in character" when they really mean "being notable so that the DM notices and says that was very in character", strict Alignment systems, gaining Willpower for "doing that kind of thing in any situation") is just a pain and inviting trouble.

Whereas if you simply make the rules work such that people take actions that you would expect characters to take, and where people don't have to make fucking weird in-character explanations for the mechanics of the game, then it just happens naturally. Characters will proceed to act in the way that characters should act, and players will get as involved as they are personally comfortable doing (which depends on their personality, their attachment to their character, prompts from the MC and other players, how they're feeling that week, having good NPCs to work off, etc).

Yes. Immersion is something like morale or creativity, it happens by itself but is terribly fragile and will be shattered if you nudge it the wrong way. Making an immersive experience is an exercise in making sure your rules don't impact immersion, not in making rules that encourage it. The second you've made a rule to encourage immersion you've already shot yourself in the foot, because you're meddling with the very fragile thing that is perfectly healthy if you just leave it alone.

[radthemad4]

I'm not convinced that "immersion" is a top-level goal. It's certainly good in some ways, and can help a game tremendously, but trying to force it is often less good than just accepting that tonight, you're playing a wargame.

Yeah, once you accept the strange physics of whatever game you're playing, you can still enjoy the experience.

More relevantly for the interactive storytelling, The Bastion gratifyingly does all this largely within gameplay, not relying on cutscenes (except one or two little ones). Mostly this is done through the sexy (and possibly unreliable) narration, but there's an entirely dialogue-free sequence near the end that stays with me in particular. For reasons I won't spoil, the hero makes a sacrificial gesture that means he has to move slowly through enemy territory without the ability to attack or defend. All you can do is neck health potions as rank upon rank of enemies pour projectiles into you.

But after a while, they stop firing, one after another. They just watch you. As you make the final slow, painful steps to the exit, a horde of enemies watch from the higher ground, weapons still aimed and poised to fire. At one point, one of the enemies gives into tension and starts firing at you again, but he's slapped down by his leader, and the rest of the army watches as you leave unmolested, silent in appreciation for a selfless act of nobility.

What needs to be taken away from this is that it's all done within gameplay, never subtracting direct control of your movements and health potions. The enemy leader slaps down his twitchy underling with the same melee attack he'd have used on you in the field of battle. This, good listeners, is interactive narrative. A thousand words of story told in a few select gestures, backed by all the context of everything that's come before it, and trusting you to notice it without going to cutscene or taking away camera controls. It's all rather humbling, really.

[silva]

This Yahtzee post hit it in the head ( even if we already learned this lesson since at least Half-Life in 1998, or System Shock in 1993 depending where you draw your line).

Making an immersive experience is an exercise in making sure your rules don't impact immersion

Yup, but see my previous post - what determines which rules impact immersion is personal taste and perception, so the same rule can impact immersion for some and don't impact it for others.

[fectin]

Well, that's why a lot of folks here lean on verisimilitude instead of realism. Big strong fighters lifting several-ton boulders is less immersion-breaking than big strong fighters sometimes lifting boulders and other times struggling to open doors.

[Mistborn]

I said I would after all.

Anyway "immersion" is funny thing, but I'd say games that try to strongarm players into doing things through "roleplaying incentive" mechanics actually do more to kill "immersion". What I've found is what really gets people invested in the game is to have their choices matter, people care about the story when they get to make it.

[Dean]

Immersion comes of keeping character motivations and player motivations aligned

This is it exactly. My most immersive experience in any game was as an Iron Man like inventor. I spent a long time pre-session deciding what weapon modifications I would make to myself and I was flip flopping on the extra complication, time, and money it would require to make my arm rockets ignore cover. I decided against it. In that days mission we were ambushed at a Casino by a group of gunmen who flipped over some tables as cover and started gunning us down. We ducked and covered and I said "Goddamnit! So now I'm gonna die cause I was too cheap to solve this problem when I had the chance an hour ago!". I remember the instant after I said that I felt a genuine joy not knowing whether that sentence had been spoken for my character or me. It was a perfect unity of my world and the game world and replicating that feeling has become a goal of my RPG play from then on.

[fectin]

That's one of the reasons I love Logistics & Dragons.

[Pedantic]

Immersion comes of keeping character motivations and player motivations aligned

This is the whole thing. As long as I'm not expected to make decisions my character can't make (with maybe some small leeway for luck based powers, like rolling opting to reroll a bad roll) immersion is maintained. If I have to make a decision on a timescale my character can't access, or expend a resource my character can't track (or at least have some analogue for) immersion suffers.

[brized]

That casino incident would've broken immersion for me. Wooden tables and doors, even very thick ones, only provide concealment rather than cover vs. pistols and grenades, much less rifles and more powerful explosives. [1], [2]