Elves Pop Up in Times Square: Wat Do?

[OgreBattle]

Keeping up a masquerade seems more important to White Anglo Saxon Protestants than to Malaysians though. Every Malaysian I know has seen a ghost.

[hyzmarca]

There's all this talk about 'how' a Masquerade would work, but we're kind of short on the 'why'.

What are all of the various 'whys' as to why you would want to set one up? I can think of a few, but I want to hear TGD's take on it.

The simplest reason is that most of the worldbuilding is already done for you. You can just say "it's exactly like the real world except for ..." and be done with most of it. You can, of course, add secret histories about her Gerald Ford was a shape shifted Grey ET or whatever, but you don't have to. Your game defaults to being exactly like the real world except for the parts where you explicitly say it isn't.

Of course, you don't need a Masquarade to do this. You just need Willing Suspension of Disbelief. The X-Men films is an example of that. It's exactly like the real world except some people are mutants and have superpowers and also there are giant robots and Magento was the patsy for the JFK assassination instead of Oswald.

But really, even with bare bones changes to real history and a lot of handwaving, you still have to put more effort into a masquaradeless Modern Fantasy than you do for one that has a Masquarade. At the very least you need to know how the generic random NPCs will react to encountering a Marilith in the supermarket.


Of course it's really fun to write about how the HUAC went after Witches instead of Hollywood after Hell went Communist due to fears that the Demons that give them their magic might corrupt them towards the Communist cause. And about how the USA refused to recognize Red Hell and instead supported Satan's Government in Exile (located in New Mexico) even though it was effectively powerless.

Or about how the collapse of the USSR and increasing dissatisfaction from the working class led to democratic reforms in Hell and now it's a major trading partner.

But that's a lot of work. Because now I have to figure out all the implications of Hell having a seat on the UNSC. And there's a lot of those,.

It's far easier to just say that no one knows about demons.

-

Another reason, perhaps better, is that it reduces the utility of calling the police as a long term strategy.

If you discover a terrorist plot to blow up the Empire State Building, you really have two choices. First, you get a bunch of guns and kill all the terrorists yourself. Second, you call the cops. The first works in an action movie universe, because the police are useless and you're the hero. It doesn't work nearly as well in the real world.

The Masquerade gives you a reason for police to be useless. They don't know that the supernatural exists, they aren't equipped to deal with supernatural powers, and as a result they'll be slaughtered even if they do believe you and send someone. But they won't believe you and will probably threaten to lock you up for making false reports if you keep insisting that vampires are trying to summon cthulhu.

But if there is no Masquarade, then the only question becomes one of jurisdiction. If Vampires are trying to summon Cthulhu then do they send V-SWAT or Delta Green?

[Prak]

Yeah, I once wanted to write a setting where this same sort of "D&D Land Inhabitants cross over" thing happened in WW2, but without a masquerade, so the Nazis had dark elves and draegloths and chromatic dragons, and the Allies had gnome tinkerers and metallic dragons.

[kzt]

Yeah, I once wanted to write a setting where this same sort of "D&D Land Inhabitants cross over" thing happened in WW2, but without a masquerade, so the Nazis had dark elves and draegloths and chromatic dragons, and the Allies had gnome tinkerers and metallic dragons.

Brin's "Thor Meets Captain America". Not a fun place.

[Prak]

Yeah, I read that a while back. Damned good story.

[Laertes]

There's all this talk about 'how' a Masquerade would work, but we're kind of short on the 'why'.

What are all of the various 'whys' as to why you would want to set one up? I can think of a few, but I want to hear TGD's take on it.

Because the monsters are scared of each other, and they know that if humans can find out where they are, so can the other monsters.

It's for the same reason that a Navy Seal, walking through the woods, will take care not to let the birds know he's there: if they start fussing around him, it'll give away his position and then the Al-Quaeda dudes or whomever he's hunting will know he's there and respond appropriately.

[Prak]

I'm still liking the idea that they hide because Creatures of Shadow ages past got scared of humans. Back in the middle ages when people were actually making livings as "monster hunters" or being killed as witches or for believing in witches. Some semi-benevolent wizard realized he couldn't stop Shadow, but he could at least try to protect himself and the harmless Creatures of Shadow that were to come, so he worked a spell that impressed on any creature that went through shadow the need for caution and to hide their true nature, at least initially. Maybe he also started a tradition of keeping an eye out for Shadow Tides and trying to meet newcomers, both to lend some aid to the harmless, and to make sure the harmful didn't get a chance to wreck up the place.

[Laertes]

I'm still liking the idea that they hide because Creatures of Shadow ages past got scared of humans.

"Mummy, why are we scared of humans?"

"Sweety! Don't say that word here! You know what your gran's heart is like."

"Mummy... why are we scared of the hu... the mundane folk?"

"Well sweety, it's because long ago, we didn't hide from them properly. They found out about the Shadow and the Tides, and they found out about us. They hunted us all over their world with cruel blades of iron, and killed every one they found, be they Marilith or Kobold. They spared none."

"How do we know that, Mummy, if none escaped?"

"Oh my child. The worst thing about the... mundane folk... isn't their iron. It's that they learn. They study things. You see, when they found the Shadow they were curious. They learned about it, and eventually they found a way to cross it and invade us here, in the Nevernever."

"Did we fight them away from us?"

"No sweety, they conquered us and killed everyone who resisted. A few hid here and there, but most were... well, the mundane folk found a place for them as their wives. That's why so many of us resemble them in some ways. The ones who were too wild, they had to flee far and wide."

"Did they go away eventually, Mummy?"

"Not for many centuries, darling, and it got worse before it did. You see, before long their soldiers here grew tired and homesick, and none wanted to come to replace them. So they forced their worst criminals to become soldiers to hold their forts here, and then began to use the Nevernever as a prison. Hell, they called us. They would tell each other be careful or you'll be sent to Hell. Nowadays they still say that word, though they've forgotten what it means."

"So... what happened, Mummy?"

"We don't know, sweety. All we know is that one day the flood of criminals became a trickle, and then it dried up entirely. Eventually all the mundane folk here died off and only their half-breeds remained."

"Will they... will they come back?"

"If you don't eat your vegetables, sweety, they just might."

"Mummy!"

[hyzmarca]

Wait. Wat.

When you wash up on the Shore of a World, some of the Shadow continues to cling to you, like water clinging to a half-drowned man. Most of it dripped off over time, but a fine layer stays and hardens. It's both protection and a curse. It hides your true nature, making you seem Normal to the denizens of the World you landed in.

Those that fight against it find that the illusion is weakest where the Shadow touches the World.

So the illusion of normality is made by the Shadow and it's weakest in places where the Shadow actually is? There is a major disconnect there.

-Username17

Going back to this, we can say that the World imposes its own laws on Castaways and that the Shadow provides some protection from that. The residue that sticks to you means that your impossible magical biology appears human, instead of the alternative of you dying horribly when it fails because such things are incompatible with local physics.

The Shadow itself isn't part of the World and doesn't play by the same laws.

[animea90]

You could go with a 'the paths between worlds open once every thousand years' or something like that. Then, there might have been a few crossovers in the past, before cameras and stuff, which might have led to a few mages and creatures moving into Earth. By now their descendants (or they if they're immortal) are sufficiently experienced to maintain a masquerade (however there are hints to their presence throughout history which could be the stuff of conspiracy theories). Just now, the gateway has opened once more and the Earthly supernaturals could try their best to enforce a masquerade (possible, as long as crossovers aren't too common, sort of like the rate at which kaijus show up in Pacific Rim).

Another option, is to have the masquerade broken with a large scale invasion or something. It'll still be reminiscent of Earth, as it's only just happened.

This begs a question though, if medieval humans were able to deal with this mystic invasion, how could it pose a threat to modern humans with tanks and missiles?

[deaddmwalking]

If we're geared for a major invasion from another country, things 'slipping in' from another dimension might not see the same coordinated response. In fact, a major conventional war (or nuclear holocaust) could be the 'opening gambit' of the invaders - creating a situation that is easier to handle. Infiltration may not receive a full response while people remain skeptical of it (and they will). Every other explanation will be considered first, so only when everything is so blatant that it can no longer be ignored will full action be taken...

And if the infiltration occurs in heavily populated areas, conventional military response will be limited. You can't just Air Strike Manhattan.

[radthemad4]

You could go with a 'the paths between worlds open once every thousand years' or something like that. Then, there might have been a few crossovers in the past, before cameras and stuff, which might have led to a few mages and creatures moving into Earth. By now their descendants (or they if they're immortal) are sufficiently experienced to maintain a masquerade (however there are hints to their presence throughout history which could be the stuff of conspiracy theories). Just now, the gateway has opened once more and the Earthly supernaturals could try their best to enforce a masquerade (possible, as long as crossovers aren't too common, sort of like the rate at which kaijus show up in Pacific Rim).

Another option, is to have the masquerade broken with a large scale invasion or something. It'll still be reminiscent of Earth, as it's only just happened.

This begs a question though, if medieval humans were able to deal with this mystic invasion, how could it pose a threat to modern humans with tanks and missiles?

I didn't say the medieval humans 'dealt' with them in any way. I assumed crossovers were mostly accidental and didn't happen too often. e.g. in the Narnia series, there are no humans in Narnia when the kids first go there. Next time they go (a few hundred years later in Narnia time), there's a whole human civilization there. Apparently a bunch of drunk pirates found a portal somewhere and these humans are their descendants. At some point, the refugees from magic land either found themselves stuck, or suddenly found the old way back no wonder working. However, they found ordinary humans to not be too accepting of them. By modern times they've got a fully fledged Harry Potteresque Masquerade going, and don't want this sudden influx of newcomers from screwing things up for them. That was my idea anyway. I think Prak is trying something different though with the Shadow providing new identities for refugees. I'm assuming there are other more interesting planes with better resources than medieval earth so there was no incentive for really powerful beings to go there on purpose. However, Earth is accessible once more, and now, they might see some potential here now that we've got modern technology.

[Prak]

It's also really hard to get to a specific place on purpose, like, no one's done it. Every shadow migration is accidental.

[Dogbert]

Didn't Weisman answer this very question back in the 89?

just another fantasy world but with mobile phones instead of owlbears.

*Wonders on which fantasy world owl bears can be used as cell-phones, because that sounds awesome*

P.S: I guess in that world "quantum bears" would be a very good thing to happen to anyone, and how fantasy Shepard communicates.

[Heisenberg]

At first I thought this thread was about The Awakening from Shadowrun.

[Midnight_v]

Yeah, I once wanted to write a setting where this same sort of "D&D Land Inhabitants cross over" thing happened in WW2, but without a masquerade, so the Nazis had dark elves and draegloths and chromatic dragons, and the Allies had gnome tinkerers and metallic dragons.

Brin's "Thor Meets Captain America". Not a fun place.

I had been thinking of that the whole thread. I read the graphic novel version entitled "The life eaters" or something to that effect.
Elves show up in time square, followed by a massive cover up could be done but it'd be more like MIB where they mind-wipe people or pretend its a Hobbit 3 publicity stunt. Subtle magic influencing people is just as good as flashing them.
The phones and pictures on the internet is nearly as big a problem as we make it out to be sometimes. Its more likely that if an alien landed outside your house right now, that the resulting pictures would make people look at you like the meme: "I'm not saying it was aliens..."
I mean who right now believes in Bigfoot or Pterosaurs in lakes, some people assuredly, but even if we say "MOST" people do, they stay within the lines of society.
I posit that it could be more like that, a masquerade greatly facilitated by how we really seem today, easily distracted and self interested. People post all kinds of mystical shit on the interwebs and most free people don't even know it exists until things like the Slenderman Murders happen. I'm not being crass here I'm just saying, the masquerade would actually be pretty easy to pull off for a variety of ways. The number 1 reason is the bulk of people don't wanna be moved from their daily life unless they're forced to be.

[Laertes]

The thing about masquerades is that there's a thing about humans which I'm going to call accumulated disbelief. It comes from the fact that when we look under the bed to see if there's a monster, then every single time we look there turns out not to be a monster. If a person on youtube claims to be a vampire, then every single time we investigate it turns out that they aren't really a vampire. If a priest claims to be able to heal cancer by laying on hands, then every single time we investigate the success rate turns out to be statistically identical to a placebo. As such, we accumulate disbelief. This means that when we hear a new claim along these lines, it gets compared to all the many, many times it hasn't been true in the past. Humans are learning machines, after all.

To use Midnight_v's example, in our world people will make sarcastic internet meme jokes about photos of aliens, but they won't seriously believe it because in our world there is a great deal of accumulated disbelief regarding aliens. Every single time we've investigated reports of them, it's either turned out to be a natural phenomenon, or a hoax, or an unexplained mystery. The number of times it's actually turned out to be a legitimate alien contact is zero times, so it becomes a joke or a weird fringe theory. When people post things that are "irrefutable evidence", we laugh at those things because they run smack into our accumulated disbelief.

By contrast, in a world where there are actually monsters and supernatural things, we don't have that accumulated disbelief because sometimes, holy shit, it actually is monsters or supernatural things. The disbelief doesn't add up to the same extent, and so people won't instinctively reach for the mockery to the same degree. If a person on youtube claims to be a vampire, we'll treat it the same way that we'll treat a person on youtube who claims to be a former member of a special forces unit. I personally do not know anyone who's a former member of a special forces unit, and indeed have never knowingly seen a special forces soldier in the flesh. However, because they actually exist and I've heard enough reliable reports of their existence, I have built up no accumulated disbelief. That's how vampires would be in a masquerade world: if a person on youtube claims to be one you wouldn't say "There's no such thing as vampires", you'd just say "You? Yeah right. Troll harder."

[Prak]

Actually, that's a really interesting thought- the masqueraders funding essentially false flag projects to clutter up peoples' attentions with scams and well done video shorts that are then shown to be exactly that so that people are desensitized to it.

[Laertes]

There's a line in one of White Wolf's old Vampire books which went something like (and this is from memory from many years ago so please pardon the inaccuracy): "Every shitty direct-to-video vampire exploitation movie just makes the Masquerade that much stronger. That's why the Camarilla keeps funding them. You're welcome."

[Prak]

In the Dresden Files, Dracula was allowed to be published to (I can't actually remember) either mislead mortals, or teach mortals how to kill vampires. I think it was the latter, that the White Council allowed Dracula to be published to teach mortals how to kill one of the three types of vampires, so there's that sort of thing that can go on too.

[Laertes]

IIRC it was published to fuck over Black Court vampires.