League Of Losers

...You Lost Me · Post by **...You Lost Me** » Wed Jul 09, 2014 11:18 pm

SotAG currently makes almost anyone moderately viable in the jungle. I've seen more than one tournament with champs like Nocturne going SotAG + 2 giant's belts and being pretty much unkillable.

Also, Cho'gath with SotAG, Warmog, Sunfire, Randuin, Visage, and Banshee, then rack up 6 stacks has ~7.5k HP if you use the Defensive Mastery tree. Alternatively, Cho'gath with SotAG, 5 warmog, and 6 stacks is ~10k HP. Add a strong lulu ult and push past 11k. I recommend boots of swiftness for when you get owned by the guy using BoRK.

Mistborn · Post by **Mistborn** » Mon Jul 14, 2014 4:37 pm

So after carrying another game as Ryze I've been wondering why I don't see Ryze in the top lane more often. Not only does he scale into the late game redonkculously well but he bully around a lot of the standard melee top laners. The obvious answer is of course that I'm playing wood league yolo queue, but i'm wondering if there is another reason.

Pseudo Stupidity · Post by **Pseudo Stupidity** » Mon Jul 14, 2014 11:57 pm

Lord Mistborn wrote:So after carrying another game as Ryze I've been wondering why I don't see Ryze in the top lane more often. Not only does he scale into the late game redonkculously well but he bully around a lot of the standard melee top laners. The obvious answer is of course that I'm playing wood league yolo queue, but i'm wondering if there is another reason.

Ryze is easily camped and killed, so he relies on a team that can do things without a top laner for 20 minutes.

That and I think a lot of people don't find him fun. I am one of those people.

Pseudo Stupidity · Post by **Pseudo Stupidity** » Thu Jul 17, 2014 12:00 pm

This huge patch, so much to talk about.

1. Jungle timers are fucking awesome. It was annoying to time them, and now you don't have to. I still call things out in chat every once in a while (and if you don't see it you still have to get an approximate timer on your own), but this helps a lot with people making stupid plays.

2. The first in a long line of Kassadin nerfs to come. This one isn't that big, the problem was not the slow duration or the CD of his auto. Riot, you know it's riftwalk. Fucking increase the CD or reduce its damage.

3. Lucian...wow. Now he's very all-in. He already kind of was, but they also buffed his base stats and made his dash way the fuck better. Can't tell if this was a buff or a nerf because he was already getting into range for almost everyone to fight them.

4. Minor Ahri buff means I'm going to have to put the time in and learn her again. She was already really good, but I hated that stupid Q mana cost because it made it a bitch to get the wave shoved out and roam.

5. Buffs to blue Ezreal items and to Ezreal himself, prepare yourself (note: everyone is playing Ezreal in diamond now).

6. Alistar mana buffs are minor, but that ult buff is welcome. Good for him.

7. Minor buff to Kha might be enough to bring him back...maybe. I don't know if the meta supports him anymore.

...You Lost Me · Post by **...You Lost Me** » Thu Jul 17, 2014 6:05 pm

Lucian is just way too slippery right now. It's driving me crazy.

Pseudo Stupidity · Post by **Pseudo Stupidity** » Tue Jul 22, 2014 9:49 pm

This is a PSA to remind you that AP support Janna is the baddest bitch in the world.

Do you want a support who has it all? Tired of shitty adcs that can't seem to do anything? Well, have I got a solution for you. That solution is AP SUPPORT JANNA, the support sensation that's sweeping the nation (of wards).

Shields? Let me tell you about her fucking shields. She shields for over 400 late game with some AP. Her shields make supports with heals weep with envy.

Control? Do you even know Janna? She throws out tornadoes, slows, and a big ass knockback. The other team will be left befuddled as their channels are canceled and your team keeps their momentum with the wind at their back.

Heals? Her ult has a fucking 1.8 AP ratio on its heal. And it's AoE. She heals fucking everyone on your team for 400 hp without any AP at all, add in some AP and she's slapping at least a few thousand health onto your team (total) in a fight. Not including the fucking SHIELDS.

Utility? Her passive is great for kiting in fights and movement as a team. You can outposition people because your team is 5% faster than theirs. On her own, Janna is fast as fuck. At level 1 W with some AP, and including her passive, Janna is running over 11% faster than anyone else. So yes, AP support Janna goes barefoot for a long time. And she's still faster than anyone else.

Goddamn Damage? Her shield adds more than a BF sword of AD. Put it on a Yasuo, put it on a Riven, put it on any AD scaling beast and watch them kill everything. Also, your ratios are surprisingly good.

Laning? Level 1 AP Janna shields for over 100 damage and adds a boatload of AD to her carry on a 10 second CD. Most supports have longer cooldowns and less useful abilities at level 1. Put AP Janna with an outplay ADC like Vayne and you'll be amazed. At level 2 she gets tornado and is now super disruptive. AP support Janna lets your ADC play aggressive without fear of getting killed for making a single mistake.

Her lane also can't get ganked because Janna is faster than you (and her adc is faster than you) and throws tornadoes behind her. And her ult saves everyone if she feels threatened.

Dueling? There's a saying among AP support Janna players. "If you can kite it, you can fight it." Any melee can be kited by AP support Janna, because she can interrupt gap closers and hit them with a giant slow all the time. If they close the gap she can press R or shield and stroll away.

Don't duel enemy ranged champions. She's not awesome at that.

Play AP support Janna (9/12/9 masteries, flat AP everything with mana regen yellows) and watch even the worst adc become a GOD AMONG MEN (or ladies, as they tend to be).

Disclaimer: AP Janna will cause you to think you're invincible, largely because nobody can catch you. This is true, and you should play that way.

You are the mighty tempest. You are the storm. You are AP support Janna.

Janna.

Surgo · Post by **Surgo** » Tue Jul 22, 2014 11:29 pm

How do you manage to get AP on support income?

Pseudo Stupidity · Post by **Pseudo Stupidity** » Wed Jul 23, 2014 3:45 am

Surgo wrote:How do you manage to get AP on support income?

Mostly runes and masteries, you can start with around 50 AP. Get a sightstone and frost queen then ignore support items and build AP.

...You Lost Me · Post by **...You Lost Me** » Wed Jul 23, 2014 4:27 pm

One thing I like about Janna (and to a lesser extent, Karma and Lulu) is that you don't need a void staff that much, because your AP is primarily used for shields and heals. That's 1k gold saved.

Pseudo, do you normally get chalice on Janna?

Pseudo Stupidity · Post by **Pseudo Stupidity** » Wed Jul 23, 2014 9:29 pm

...You Lost Me wrote:One thing I like about Janna (and to a lesser extent, Karma and Lulu) is that you don't need a void staff that much, because your AP is primarily used for shields and heals. That's 1k gold saved.

Pseudo, do you normally get chalice on Janna?

Your mana regen should be handled by runes/masteries and the frost queen's claim, and since you stand in the back and are a pain to catch you really don't need the mres. If I were against an AP assassin with some range or tough to dodge hard CC I might build it, but Janna is safe enough that she doesn't need to build any real defense. Your ult as AP Janna is primarily for the heal and to tell divers to GTFO.

...You Lost Me · Post by **...You Lost Me** » Thu Jul 24, 2014 4:43 am

What about CDR? I try to get 40% CDR for maximum spam, and I usually rely on Chalice unless I want morellonomicon, which is really lackluster on Janna.

Do you go FQC (10%), masteries (5%), cooldown boots (15%), then... Twin Shadows? Or do you deal without 40% CDR?

Pseudo Stupidity · Post by **Pseudo Stupidity** » Fri Jul 25, 2014 2:38 am

...You Lost Me wrote:What about CDR? I try to get 40% CDR for maximum spam, and I usually rely on Chalice unless I want morellonomicon, which is really lackluster on Janna.

Do you go FQC (10%), masteries (5%), cooldown boots (15%), then... Twin Shadows? Or do you deal without 40% CDR?

I buy blue pots once late game rolls around, but I generally operate with 15% CDR unless I go for the boots. Twin Shadows is a great item and definitely worth building if you want the CDR (and to go even faster!).

Mistborn · Post by **Mistborn** » Tue Jul 29, 2014 11:59 pm

So Sona is getting gutted that's a thing that's happening. Why? Sona wasn't overpowered, she wasn't causing problems, she didn't need to be fixed. Heal is nerfed, cooldowns are longer, auras now require you to be in cuddle range (and it's not like any champions have abilities that punish closely packed teams). Seriously no one asked for this.

...You Lost Me · Post by **...You Lost Me** » Wed Jul 30, 2014 2:06 am

Eh. Sona gets a damage boost, a shield, stronger heals for low-HP targets, more move speed. It looks like she's going to be better at punishing people who try to engage and worse at poking.

I'm a big fan of the Sona rework. I get the feeling Sona is going to go over like the Karthus VU and Rengar overhaul--people will get caught up in the noise of the echo chamber and complain about her until a pro plays her or people realize the kit is actually fun. Then they'll shut up and pretend they never complained in the first place.

The only thing I don't like is she's still incredibly squishy. Minions can take more of a beating.

Mistborn · Post by **Mistborn** » Wed Jul 30, 2014 10:42 am

...You Lost Me wrote:Eh. Sona gets a damage boost, a shield, stronger heals for low-HP targets, more move speed. It looks like she's going to be better at punishing people who try to engage and worse at poking.

The heal is not stronger especially at low ranks, the cooldowns for all her abilities are also longer, which means that new sona will spend more time doing nothing and means she can fire off fewer power cords. The major issue is that Sona needs to be was closer to the action to make a difference and she still has her caster minion durability.

The entire point of Sona was that she wins the battle of attrition in lane and loses the all in engagement, "punishing engagements" simply dosen't happen when thresh hooks are instant death.

In unrelated news Lux is getting a buff, so I suppose Riot giveith Riot takeith away. Of course they chose to buff her ability to evaporate people if she gets ahead, which I assume is pretty unfun for the people I play against rather than make her cooldowns less absurd which makes playing her kind of unfun unless you get ahead and start evaporating people.

Pseudo Stupidity · Post by **Pseudo Stupidity** » Wed Jul 30, 2014 11:33 am

Level 1-3 Sona did more damage than adcs in trades because she would auto -> Q -> power chord you right in the dick. It was a trade that took no skill and the counterplay was "stay out of range of Sona" who has 550 range and her Q is 700 or something.

I wouldn't say Sona was overpowered, but she was definitely frustrating to play against in a way other supports were not (Sona is the only support with both strong sustain and strong poke in her kit).

Sona was squishy to make up for it, but I approve of making her squishiness matter by making her get closer to people. I also approve of making her early laning less obnoxious by upping her CDs and making it so keeping her ADC at full hp is not the most efficient strategy.

Lux buffs are awesome because Lux is awesome. I don't even mind getting nuked by her, she has to hit you with a skillshot to do it.

Mistborn · Post by **Mistborn** » Wed Jul 30, 2014 12:20 pm

Pseudo Stupidity wrote:Level 1-3 Sona did more damage than adcs in trades because she would auto -> Q -> power chord you right in the dick. It was a trade that took no skill and the counterplay was "stay out of range of Sona" who has 550 range and her Q is 700 or something.

New Sona does the exact same thing only now she has a shield, what's gutted is her ability to contribute to teamfights outside her ult because her auras effect fewer people and she spends more time in teamfights doing nothing. (Which is really stupid because the whole point of the rework was that she was too passive). Like I said before the counterplay to Sona is to hard engage her because she'll pretty much always lose an all in fight, that's how bot lane is supposed to work "sustain" beats "poke" but is beaten by "all in" which is itself beaten by "poke"

Honestly I see Sona being even more overshadowed by Nami who pretty much already did everything Sona did only better. The only reason Sona was still popular was she was a very undemanding champion to play, take that away from her and she has nothing.

Pseudo Stupidity · Post by **Pseudo Stupidity** » Wed Jul 30, 2014 9:44 pm

Lord Mistborn wrote:
Pseudo Stupidity wrote:Level 1-3 Sona did more damage than adcs in trades because she would auto -> Q -> power chord you right in the dick. It was a trade that took no skill and the counterplay was "stay out of range of Sona" who has 550 range and her Q is 700 or something.
New Sona does the exact same thing only now she has a shield, what's gutted is her ability to contribute to teamfights outside her ult because her auras effect fewer people and she spends more time in teamfights doing nothing. (Which is really stupid because the whole point of the rework was that she was too passive). Like I said before the counterplay to Sona is to hard engage her because she'll pretty much always lose an all in fight, that's how bot lane is supposed to work "sustain" beats "poke" but is beaten by "all in" which is itself beaten by "poke"

Honestly I see Sona being even more overshadowed by Nami who pretty much already did everything Sona did only better. The only reason Sona was still popular was she was a very undemanding champion to play, take that away from her and she has nothing.

Her cooldowns were hit, that means she can't trade with you as often and keep her adc topped off as easily. The big thing stopping Nami lanes from being cancer is her cooldowns, Sona could trade all the time and not be too worried because her damage would be back up in 6 seconds. If Nami went in to throw down her spells she was at risk of taking damage and was also using her sustain to do damage.

I'd also say Sona's real power is her ult. A 1.5 second giant aoe stun is...well, giant. Sona ult is better than most support ults outside of initiates (and flash Sona ult is a really, really good initiation).

Sona is fucking good, and every once in a while people remember that. She's also good for no real effort, just stand in the back and roll your hand across the keyboard until you need to ult.

The movespeed is a pretty huge buff too, that spell used to be hot garbage that you just cycled through to powerchord somebody. Now it's actually a useful skill.

...You Lost Me · Post by **...You Lost Me** » Wed Jul 30, 2014 11:13 pm

First off, Sona's heal actually heals more, but only on low HP targets. That was the goal, because topping off is bad and mid-fight heals are good.

Sona's damage is now tamer, because power chord hits for 50% less. It's still a bitch if she uses her empowered auto on you with a power chord (she will) but now there is at least some counter play instead of her sitting around zoning you because her blue aura is up.

Sona now has more up-front defenses as well. The shield soaks nukes better than the armor/MR bonus, and her heal is obviously better if she's low on HP. Between that and a stronger MS burst from her slow, she'll likely be harder to catch in lane. Actually, I'm still not sure how the move speed boost will change, because she's lost her passive buff and turned it into a percent increase.

MGuy · Post by **MGuy** » Wed Jul 30, 2014 11:41 pm

...You Lost Me wrote:First off, Sona's heal actually heals more, but only on low HP targets. That was the goal, because topping off is bad and mid-fight heals are good.

Sona's damage is now tamer, because power chord hits for 50% less. It's still a bitch if she uses her empowered auto on you with a power chord (she will) but now there is at least some counter play instead of her sitting around zoning you because her blue aura is up.

Sona now has more up-front defenses as well. The shield soaks nukes better than the armor/MR bonus, and her heal is obviously better if she's low on HP. Between that and a stronger MS burst from her slow, she'll likely be harder to catch in lane. Actually, I'm still not sure how the move speed boost will change, because she's lost her passive buff and turned it into a percent increase.

I'm not sure how you think she'll be harder to catch. She's still super squishy. Even if her heal goes for a 'little' more at low levels she has so little of it and mana I doubt it'll actually matter. The only trouble I've ever had with Sona was her zoning. If her zoning is weaker I can't fathom a reason not to just all in and destroy her ass. I mean, I never see Sona much as it is but this just seems like they wanted her to perhaps be a weaker choice mid.

...You Lost Me · Post by **...You Lost Me** » Thu Jul 31, 2014 12:15 am

She's going to regularly heal when low on HP. If you try and engage, she can easily boost her move speed to escape. Her spells are long range and auto-target. Unless you are Leona (her #1 counter), how on earth are you getting to Sona so easily?

And her heal increases by 1% per 1% of HP missing on the target. That's actually a really big deal.

CapnTthePirateG · Post by **CapnTthePirateG** » Sat Aug 02, 2014 3:40 am

Wow riot you buffed distortion's mana cost, that will really make up for removing LeBlanc's silence. Good job riot, good job.

...You Lost Me · Post by **...You Lost Me** » Sat Aug 02, 2014 3:52 am

After playing several games, Sona is definitely still good. I think this rework takes away power where it shouldn't be and puts it where it should. It's definitely a net buff.

Pseudo Stupidity · Post by **Pseudo Stupidity** » Sat Aug 09, 2014 3:28 am

Sona does feel a lot more useful right now. She was already useful, but now she has pretty colors and looks like she's doing a lot. That and the MS buff is great.

Laning against her is much less terrible now as well. I don't mind having Sonas anymore!

Surgo · Post by **Surgo** » Sat Aug 09, 2014 5:57 am

I'm starting my top lane ADC adventures. First up, Vayne.

What's the best first item on Vayne now? Is it still BORK after the nerf? Because losing the 5% lifesteal really sucks. The passive though, does go from 25 to 40 average damage after the change (assuming your opponent has 1k max HP when you finally get the item, which seems like a safe assumption to make). That's actually pretty good. Also the Doran's Blade passive becoming 3% lifesteal again might not make this so bad for you.

Bloodthirster doesn't seem any worse than it was before. The 20% lifesteal is pretty awesome. Not many took BT first on Vayne though, seems like only a couple of pro ADCs (like Doublelift) really liked it.

Obviously, IE and shiv are dumb first item choices. Though maybe IE could work if you took lifesteal quints.

So, thoughts here?