Chamomile wrote:Voyager wasn't as bad as most people say it is. Neither was Enterprise. I mean, they had some really awful episodes, but so did all the series.
In the second episode they decided to clean up the weak signal from the beyond the event horizon of a black hole (yes, a signal from pas the event horizon) by shielding the antenna. I've never found that wrapping my TV antenna in aluminum foil improves the reception, how about you?
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Odd tangent, but back in the day... yeah, actually. Quite a lot, especially when we were in military housing in Germany and the 'tv room' was in the basement. Extending the antenna upwards toward the solitary window was pretty much necessary.
I have to admit I liked Voyager, just as much as TNG, mostly because of the year of hell
Maxus wrote:Being wrong is something that rightly should be celebrated, because now you have a chance to correct and then you'll be better than you were five minutes ago. Perfection is a hollow shell, but perfectibility is something that is to be treasured.
Occluded Sun wrote:And a delightfully refreshing kind of Evil, too.
The Borg aren't evil, they're amoral. Big difference.
They will benefit themselves regardless of the suffering this causes - that's D&D Evil. Whether it's real-world 'evil' is left as an exercise for the student.
deaddmwalking wrote:Finally, the Borg advance by assimilating other cultures. Once they have assimilated everything, do they advance? It wouldn't be a stretch to assume that when they assimilate a species they learn their research processes and could therefore emulate them, but they're never shown doing that... If they cannot advance indefinitely, and we consider advancement to be a good thing, the Borg dominion would ultimately be bad.
It's not the harvesting of other races' biological and technological diversity is so bad - that doesn't even have to be done against anyone's will, and even if they didn't give people a choice, they could steal a few people to Borg and leave the species/culture to develop.
What makes the Borg so utterly terrible isn't that they're harvesters, but that they're clearcutters. They obliterate the things they incorporate into themselves, leaving nothing behind to continue to develop.
Occluded Sun wrote:And a delightfully refreshing kind of Evil, too.
The Borg aren't evil, they're amoral. Big difference.
They will benefit themselves regardless of the suffering this causes - that's D&D Evil. Whether it's real-world 'evil' is left as an exercise for the student.
So are wolves then. And sharks, and any other predator you care to name. Unless they go back and open deer orphanages later.
The Borg could see what they're doing as being altruistic. That involuntary assimilation is like involuntarily commitment - they're acting on behalf of someone incapable of acting in their own best interests.
"I, Borg" opened up the idea of them being a sympathetic faction. Hugh was given his "freedom" with little more choice than the Borg give for assimilation. That's ignoring the EVIL QUEEN!!! established by First Contact + developed in Voyager, of course, but perhaps Evil Queens could be the tragic outcome that proves WHY the Borg's flavor of egalitarianism is ultimately inferior to free will.
Occluded Sun wrote:They will benefit themselves regardless of the suffering this causes - that's D&D Evil. Whether it's real-world 'evil' is left as an exercise for the student.
This. What the Borg do isn't for some altruistic cause. It's to benefit themselves and themselves only. They want to assimilate new technologies and manpower to become stronger as a race and they don't care who they end up hurting to do it.
Wolves kill to survive - they need to eat. They don't really go about killing for fun - admittedly some creatures do this in nature, but given the risks usually involved it's a bit unusual.
The Borg don't really need to assimilate to survive. They're doing it to benefit themselves, because they think they're stronger and smarter and generally all-around better when they do so. They are willing to improve themselves at the expense of the suffering and destruction of countless other races.
In D&D, they're totally Lawful Evil. Not the "rejoicing in suffering" kind of evil, but the "totally uncaring for others" kind. They're a bit like the people of Krikkit from Douglas Adams' Hitchhiker's Guide works.
"Most men are of no more use in their lives but as machines for turning food into excrement." - Leonardo di ser Piero da Vinci
Chamomile wrote:Voyager wasn't as bad as most people say it is. Neither was Enterprise. I mean, they had some really awful episodes, but so did all the series.
In the second episode they decided to clean up the weak signal from the beyond the event horizon of a black hole (yes, a signal from pas the event horizon) by shielding the antenna. I've never found that wrapping my TV antenna in aluminum foil improves the reception, how about you?
.
Odd tangent, but back in the day... yeah, actually. Quite a lot, especially when we were in military housing in Germany and the 'tv room' was in the basement. Extending the antenna upwards toward the solitary window was pretty much necessary.
Not... because of 'shielding,' though.
Aluminum foil "rabbit ears" to improve the signal on shitty analog TVs has a long and proud tradition in the US that has been ended by the rise of digital.
Of course, the more objectionable science bit in the second episode was when they escaped the black hole by finding the crack in the event horizon.
Last edited by name_here on Sat Jul 19, 2014 9:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
DSMatticus wrote:It's not just that everything you say is stupid, but that they are Gordian knots of stupid that leave me completely bewildered as to where to even begin. After hearing you speak Alexander the Great would stab you and triumphantly declare the puzzle solved.
Occluded Sun wrote:Wolves kill to survive - they need to eat. They don't really go about killing for fun - admittedly some creatures do this in nature, but given the risks usually involved it's a bit unusual.
Chimps.
Wolverines do technically kill only to eat or territory/child protection; but after their done eating, they will sometimes force themselves to vomit for no other reason than to make room for more food.
Last edited by ACOS on Sat Jul 19, 2014 11:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Shielding" is a misnomer when talking about signals. Anything you do is actually going to be a filter of some sort, whether you call it that or not. If you can 'shield' in a way that only cuts signal you're not interested in, you can crank up the gain much more.
Vebyast wrote:Here's a fun target for Major Creation: hydrazine. One casting every six seconds at CL9 gives you a bit more than 40 liters per second, which is comparable to the flow rates of some small, but serious, rocket engines. Six items running at full blast through a well-engineered engine will put you, and something like 50 tons of cargo, into space. Alternatively, if you thrust sideways, you will briefly be a fireball screaming across the sky at mach 14 before you melt from atmospheric friction.
fectin wrote:"Shielding" is a misnomer when talking about signals. Anything you do is actually going to be a filter of some sort, whether you call it that or not. If you can 'shield' in a way that only cutsdoes relatively more to attenuate signal you're not interested in, you can crank up the gain much more.
Vebyast wrote:Here's a fun target for Major Creation: hydrazine. One casting every six seconds at CL9 gives you a bit more than 40 liters per second, which is comparable to the flow rates of some small, but serious, rocket engines. Six items running at full blast through a well-engineered engine will put you, and something like 50 tons of cargo, into space. Alternatively, if you thrust sideways, you will briefly be a fireball screaming across the sky at mach 14 before you melt from atmospheric friction.
name_here wrote:
Of course, the more objectionable science bit in the second episode was when they escaped the black hole by finding the crack in the event horizon.
