Interesting Fantasy Cultures

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Lokathor
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Post by Lokathor »

Orcs always remind me of the Heavy Weapons Guy video from TF2's "Meet the Team" series.

http://youtu.be/jHgZh4GV9G0
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Shatner
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Post by Shatner »

Nicely written. Orcs being determined but tragic figures pushed to the margins is one of a couple of different interpretations of them that's supported by the fluff. I'll respond more fully tomorrow when I can spare the time.

On a barely related note, your orc referring to human skalds made me think of this hilarious scene from JourneyQuest. Note that the orcs are speaking a grammatically-consistent language in that show; it's not just gibberish.
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Prak
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Post by Prak »

Thank you. Skyrim got me thinking about orcs operating on a pack/alpha male social structure, but I'm still mulling over what I think of that. I don't think they thought through the implications of that.
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.
Winnah wrote:No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.
FrankTrollman wrote:In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.

You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.
Shatner
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Post by Shatner »

In my setting, orcs are obligate carnivores (which is why I moved the "eat anything and immune to ingested poisons" schtick to the goblinoids). This means that they have a much larger hurdle to clear to do the whole nation-building thing because they were never able to go about doing the agriculture thing. Since the intermediary step to feeding animals field-grown fodder (growing, say, corn and eating that yourself) wasn't available to the orcs, they never successfully made that jump until the practice was exported to them by neighboring plant-eaters.

So the orcs are hunters and herders. They have gone whole hog on this animal husbandry thing and so if it can be tamed, ridden, or raised for food, the orcs have likely been dealing with that beastie for generations. Orcs in my setting have a +2 wisdom mod, so they are known for being very effective rangers, druids, and clerics in addition to, of course, hitting things really, really hard. So most orcs are basically mounted warriors (some ride horses, others giant boars, still others rhinoceroses, and if your DnD setting involves dinosaurs then there are orcs riding triceratops too). They are generally nomadic and frightfully good warriors who are also stronger than you, and most of them will trade with you, and most of them will also rob you for all those things they can't easily manufacture living on the move out on the steppes. While their entire race are able and expected to kick ass, when the orcs do lose, it usually means they lost a sizable portion of their population (like in Prak's writeup, they don't really have non-combatants the way many other races do). Lost wars usually mean conceding choice territory and/or being pushed out into the monster-infested badlands.

At the moment, the orcs are going through a painful transition process. Some of them want to grow crops to enable them to raise larger populations of animals to enable larger populations of orcs who can then meet the other races on more even footing. But the most consider this transition a violation of the ancient ways, or that imitating the ways of the plant-eaters means becoming weak and unworthy like them.

That's the short version anyway... for a flexible definition of short, I suppose.
Last edited by Shatner on Wed Jul 16, 2014 4:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Prak
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Post by Prak »

I've always liked the idea of orcs being extreme omnivores, and don't see it a big enough thing to restrict to one race, more a trait that fits iconically marginalized fantasy races, so would give it to orcs and goblins both (except I didn't give goblins explicit immunity to ingested poisons. My players play pink-skins so it's not like it comes up a lot).

I use the tome orc writeup, save that orcs only take a single -2 to a chosen mental stat because I did the Pathfinder thing and made the major races "1 up" on ability scores*. I mostly use the Tome goblin, except I gave them +4 Dex, +2 Int, -2 Str, -2 Cha. Yeah, my goblins are smart. I hate the "dumb goblin" archetype, mostly because I rather identify with a race that is ostracized, thought stupid and weak and evil, and lives a hardscrabble life and has to fight for everything. They aren't necessarily tinkers, though they can be, with the +2 Int, but wizards are merely uncommon for the fact that training can be difficult for goblins to acquire, though it is their second favoured class since they take to it so eagerly.

*most races got a second bonus that fit their fluff or favoured class, so Dwarves and Halflings got Wis, Gnomes and Elves got Cha (because there's a specific type of elf with Int, and let's not make a race with +4 int...), Humans just get a choice +2 with no neg.
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.
Winnah wrote:No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.
FrankTrollman wrote:In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.

You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.
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Avoraciopoctules
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Post by Avoraciopoctules »

In my current campaign, one of the key themes of the orcish empire is their one-child policy. Orcs have a high birth rate and relatively short lifespan, which historically tended to cause population overflow and outgoing warbands. When a group of warlords managed to carve out their own territory and form the beginnings of a nation-state, they were keenly interested in finding a way to break up familial loyalties and make the people dependent on their shiny new imperial government instead. "Family Planning" programs served the dual purpose of slowing down overpopulation pressures and weakening the family as a political force.

Traditionally, orcs had as many children as possible in order to make sure that some survived to support them in old age. The burden of supporting their parents was divided among the siblings, so each one had an easier time individually in a big family. Even with the relatively short span of orcish retirements, supporting aging parents became much more difficult for a single orc, unless of course they received government support. Patriotism is subsidized, all orcs within the empire's grasp are supposed to think of the empire as their second family.

If you live in an orcish imperial city, the authorities are very interested in controlling your reproduction. They can't seem to get away with abolishing families altogether, but the imperial princes offer all kinds of incentives to commoners willing to let their children be adopted into crèches and refuse to let parents raise more than one child or set of twins at a time. People out in the countryside are more reluctant to accept imperial family planning programs and further from the imperial army's reach, but the government still tries to space out births, imposing penalties on people who have more than one birth every several years. Compulsory sterilization is a common punishment for crimes, with more painful and difficult-to-cure methods employed for more severe punishments.

The households of imperial princes are an exception, of course. The government tries to foster an impression that any citizen who proves themselves could be exalted beyond the restrictions of the one-child policy and into a position of dominance, with as many children as they want or can adopt into their extended family. And there is some possibility for upward mobility, but princes are generally in a much better position to give training and pull strings in order to pick their own successors than ambitious outsiders.
Last edited by Avoraciopoctules on Wed Jul 16, 2014 5:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Prak
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Post by Prak »

One thought I had while mulling over the idea of pack/alpha social structures was the idea that the chief was the only one allowed to have "wives," which isn't to say the other didn't pair off, just that orc "couples" maintained primarily a "friends with benefits" status. The idea not so much being to control population, but rather to control emotions, such that when a raiding party went out, you don't have a bunch of able-bodied orcs with more important things to do rendered useless by the fear that their husband/wife/girl/boyfriend aren't coming back. I mean, of course there will still be people worried their "friends" aren't coming back, but it helps keep the sort of feeling at bay enough that it's easier for the orcs to go about their necessary business.

Just a thought I had because of Skyrim and NPR, still not sure what I think about it.
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.
Winnah wrote:No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.
FrankTrollman wrote:In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.

You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.
Laertes
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Post by Laertes »

That kicked ass, Prak! Nicely written and with a good balance between the "noble savage" and the just plain "savage." It's interesting to compare your very spiritual take on races with Shatner's essentialism and my New Urbanism.

One minor point: if Orcs were true omnivores in a Tome way - that is, if they had ruminant stomachs and could digest grass and leaves - then they wouldn't be farmers, herdsmen or even hunters. They'd be the most kickass hunter gatherers in the world. They would be able to build up their numbers very quickly after a defeat (well, maybe ten years or so, but in demographic terms that's very quick) and the carrying capacity of the land would depend very heavily on climate. Which is cool because it means that it's during the coldest winters and dryest droughts that they attack their neighbours, and when they do so they do it as a horde that strips the land in a very dramatic and awesome way.
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Prak
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Post by Prak »

Heh, thanks. It touches a bit more on the nature of religion in my game, which a lot of is at least somewhat informed by my own philosophy and religious leanings. (I'm, as I've said, a LaVeyan-ish Satanist, but also lean a bit animist when I'm in the theistic mood). Let's just say I have experience with the mindset of someone who's just trying to scratch out a living while all the world calls them evil.
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.
Winnah wrote:No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.
FrankTrollman wrote:In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.

You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.
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Post by nikita »

I made following race when I was quite young (this was in 1990's). They looked a bit like swans (I see them every year in a nearby lake).

My idea was that they were birds who had evolved to a higher intelligence. Subsequently they had learned to write (they used words which were actually signs build with multiple strokes of their wings and signs copied how wings moved). They used their nose to draw/paint.

Society was based on living in birds nests in trees (and later in other high places like mountain edges) and when bird got pregnant she'd go to a hatching home to tend herself until egg would hatch. Meanwhile her male bird would find food to treat her and baby bird.

When they had a fight they'd posture and scream at each other like swans do.
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Post by Laertes »

Cool. More cultures need ritualised forms of combat.
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Post by Shatner »

erik wrote:What I liked about Races of War writeups was having outcomes if race won and if they lost..
Good idea, Erik.



Being beaten by the Halflings
So, a bunch of ships or wagons laden with supplies show up, teeming with... children?! Armed children. Fanatical armed children. Fanatical, armed, astonishingly strong children. One of them rode in on dogback and announced that the area has been selected for the founding of a village by the halflings of yonder expedition and that everyone present are invited to move past the river which marks the boundary they've chosen for said village. Once established, the halflings will welcome any and all travelers who wish to trade with them, but rival settlements will not be tolerated. Of course, the midget on the mastiff was told to piss off,... and a couple of days later things got ugly fast. Now you and the remnants of your group are being escorted out past the river with whatever the halflings didn't particularly want from your stuff... which, strangely, was most of it. Except your land. They REALLY wanted that.

From this point on, you're pretty much free to do what you want and the halflings won't care, provided it happens on your side of the river, or doesn't involve you sticking around for too long at a time. They'll gladly buy stuff from you or sell stuff to you. And that's it. The halflings won, you moved, and now they're busy raising structures and getting the some fields plowed.


Beating the Halflings
Those tiny assholes took that land from your ancestors and your army is here to see it returned. And after some decisive victories, you've got a couple of options. Want them to accept your rule? Fine, whatever. The halflings are willing to give you a sizable tribute each year based on the income from their market if you'll leave them be. You can even call yourself Lord or King or something... provided you don't actually ask them to leave or prevent them from trading. Want them to accept your god and build a temple to it in their village? Fine, whatever, so long as you don't care about it being added to the bewildering array of deities and aspects and avatars they already worship. Want them to house your troops? Fine, whatever. They'll even help build you a fort just over there on the other side of the river... though they get a bit twitchy when you mention building it any closer. Choosing to get tribute from the halflings will earn you a quiet realm and a steady income. If the tribute ever gets too large, your demands get too invasive, if you ever stop the flow of travelers, or you start stationing your people permanently in the area, then things will devolve rapidly. The halflings will sabotage your efforts and eventually revolt. They will refuse to move unless met with an overwhelming force. If they do leave, see below.

Alternatively, you can drive the halflings off. They'll swear to return sooner or later, but at least your rid of the things. Every 15 to 20 years later, the halflings return and they'll fight like maniacs. Most of the actual halfling merchants and travelers will have nothing to do with these invasions. When asked, they'll say something about it being Steader business, and therefore none of theirs. However, every couple of years there'll be a rash of sabotage and assassinations, and these are always traced back to one of those former villagers turned vigilante. If you hold out long enough for the displaced halflings to die out then the invasions will cease, as will the inflow of enemy agents. Of course, if you leave the area too undeveloped, then sooner or later you'll see an expedition full of children show up...

Being beaten by the Hobgoblins
Congratulation! You have been enslaved. Fortunately you agreed to join their khanate with a minimum of fuss so the magistrate they assign to the region promises to elevate most of you to citizens within a generation. And of that generation, only one child of each litter will be enslaved too. What's that? You don't have litters? Well, it's not their fault your biology is so deficient as to produce only one offspring at a time. Your slavery won't be too different from what it was before, except there'll be a Daimyo and some nobles who'll show up and demand things from time to time. Bowing and scraping is encouraged. Oh, and all iron tools and iron working is banned unless you enter the military. The Khanate considers much to be beneath its notice, but cross the Iron Law and the samurai will kill you, your associates, and anyone else who looks at them funny, with extreme prejudice.

Congratulation! You have been enslaved. Since you resisted the Khanate's gentle offer of annexation, you will be a slave almost certainly for life. You children will be slaves too. However, if you're good and they're good, and your owner thinks well of your service, then someday they or THEIR children will be elevated to citizenry. They'll likely be required to take their former owner as their new lord, don his livery, and only leave on his errands, but now they can own slaves and appear in court. And if they do well and work really hard then maybe, just maybe a descendant of theirs will become a lesser noble or samurai and they will thank you, their forgotten slave ancestor, for the ascent up the social ladder you started.


Beating the Hobgoblins
Congratulation! You have just acquired a fuckton of Hobgoblin subjects. By beating the old boss, you are the clear and obvious new boss, and that former guy must have been unworthy all along. They'll give you his old home and all his stuff and all his titles and then, very, very politely ask you not to change anything. And any changes you do propose will be met with very immediate agreement, wow! brilliant!, and then... very little will actually change. Likely someone will be executed to appease you and someone nearly identical will fill the now vacant position. If you want to enact meaningful reform, you've got two options. You can spend generations affecting a culture shift which redefines the hobgoblin code of honor to support what you want it to support. Or you're going to have to slash and burn the existing hierarchy, and likely deal with a bunch of revolts. Good luck!

Being beaten by the Goblinoids
There are non-hob goblinoid nations out there and some are a real force to be reckoned with. And it looks like you just learned that. The good news is that the little guys, who are generally pretty reasonable, will be the ones in charge and though they will take your stuff, they likely don't want you dead. The bad news is that the big ones, well not the really big ones, but the really mean ones... they do want you dead. A strong goblin ruler can keep the Daibos in line enough to make them only the second or third largest cause of non-goblinoid death among his subjects, depending on how bad disease and starvation have gotten these days. A weak ruler, and suddenly your being hunted for sport. Again, there are successful goblinoid nations out there and they can even be pretty nice places to live... but not for non-goblinoids.


Beating the Goblinoids
So, the really big guys have slunk off into the forest and all the pyscho middle-sized ones went down fighting. You're left with the little ones and, to be honest, they aren't all that bad. They are no more of a pain in the ass than your other subjects, and these guys are pretty much immune to famine and dysentery, which is a nice plus. Unfortunately, a generation later and every goblin neighborhood has become a literal a breeding ground for crime. The successful, hard-working goblins are siring more of those psychos, and they always leave a body count going down. And those big ones keep sneaking out at night to munch on the crops... and some of them are the kids of the farm hands. What's a ruler to do? Most keep the goblins on starvation levels so they can't breed trouble makers. Some drive the lot of them out into the wilderness; let the bandits and highwaymen deal with 'em. There may be a third way, but you aren't likely to bother looking for it...
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Prak
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Post by Prak »

Lokathor wrote:Orcs always remind me of the Heavy Weapons Guy video from TF2's "Meet the Team" series.

http://youtu.be/jHgZh4GV9G0
That's actually probably a pretty reasonable way to play orcs. I may do that some time, in fact.
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.
Winnah wrote:No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.
FrankTrollman wrote:In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.

You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.
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