Help with spells

AndreiChekov · Post by **AndreiChekov** » Thu Jun 05, 2014 10:18 pm

I am attempting to write a class that uses Druidish spells, but has Bard progression. Trouble is, I've never really played Druids ever, so I have no idea what I'm looking for to make a reasonable spell list, and no real idea where to start looking.

fectin · Post by **fectin** » Thu Jun 05, 2014 10:49 pm

As a first approximation, just use the Druid list. It's pretty win already.

rampaging-poet · Post by **rampaging-poet** » Thu Jun 05, 2014 11:37 pm

If you do just use the Druid list, make sure your class have some other class features that make up for the reduced casting at higher levels. For example, when Bard casting yields a single 3rd-level spell at character level 8, the druid has three 3rd-level spells and two 4th-level spells.

The other option would be to cherry-pick spells that druids get access to around the same level. For example, you could make summon nature's ally 4 a 3rd-level spell so your bard-like caster can cast it once per day at the same level the druid can cast it twice per day. The 3rd-level spells would be a mix of Druid 3 and Druid 4 spells, the 4th-level spells would be a mix of Druid 5 and Druid 6 spells, the 5th-level spells would be the Druid 7 spells, and the 6th-level spells would be the Druid 8 spells (leaving 9th-level spell equivalents to the full casters). You could probably throw regenerate in at the same level as cure critical wounds even though it's listed as a 9th-level druid spell because it's actually pretty terrible.

fectin · Post by **fectin** » Thu Jun 05, 2014 11:41 pm

Sure; but I'd start with "the Druid list" and tweak it from there, as opposed to doing something ground-up.

RadiantPhoenix · Post by **RadiantPhoenix** » Fri Jun 06, 2014 1:33 am

I don't quite get the point of the exercise.

AndreiChekov · Post by **AndreiChekov** » Fri Jun 06, 2014 2:59 am

rampaging-poet wrote:useful stuff

Thank you.

radiantphoenix wrote:I don't quite get the point of the exercise.

The point is that I am writing a home brew class that is something like what I think a ranger should be, and I need help with the spell list.
I'm calling it the Hart Warden. It has terrible puns in it with both heart and hart, and deer and dear.

AndreiChekov · Post by **AndreiChekov** » Fri Jun 06, 2014 3:02 am

The class also gets the animal and plant domains, and gets domain spell slots that run on a different chassis from it's spontaneous casting. It's a work in progress. Probably a month from completion.

RadiantPhoenix · Post by **RadiantPhoenix** » Fri Jun 06, 2014 3:14 am

If you're going to make "partial caster", I'd go with reducing horizontal spell progression rather than reducing vertical spell progression.


	Spell level
Level	0	1	2	3	4	5	6	7	8	9
1	infinity	1
2	infinity	1
3	infinity	2	1
4	infinity	2	1
5	infinity	3	2	1
6	infinity	3	2	1
7	infinity	3	3	2	1
8	infinity	3	3	2	1
9	infinity	3	3	3	2	1
10	infinity	3	3	3	2	1
11	infinity	3	3	3	3	2	1
12	infinity	3	3	3	3	2	1
13	infinity	3	3	3	3	3	2	1
14	infinity	3	3	3	3	3	2	1
15	infinity	3	3	3	3	3	3	2	1
16	infinity	3	3	3	3	3	3	2	1
17	infinity	3	3	3	3	3	3	3	2	1
18	infinity	3	3	3	3	3	3	3	2	1
19	infinity	3	3	3	3	3	3	3	3	2
20	infinity	3	3	3	3	3	3	3	3	2

Start with the Druid spell list, knowing all spells on the list, prune and add from there, and then you throw in the "big" non-spellcasting abilities at the even levels.

Alternatively, a short list with spontaneous casting like the beguiler, in which case you want a narrower toolkit.

EDIT: You might also want to delay that progression one level, and put the "big" non-spellcasting abilities on the odd levels, not sure.

AndreiChekov · Post by **AndreiChekov** » Fri Jun 06, 2014 4:37 am

Whats wrong with having the same spells but at a different spell level? I had intended to make the spell list more along the lines of buff myself and utility rather than finger of death machine.
Which means that saves don't really matter (unless your party idiot decides to resist your heals), and you still get full caster level for greater magic fanging your pet.

TarkisFlux · Post by **TarkisFlux** » Fri Jun 06, 2014 4:41 am

The bard progression is really only suitable for casters who use their spells for utility rather than offense. It's a secondary thing, like all of the low level slots of the full casters are, and should be treated as such. And those casters need something else to spend most of the time doing. Even if you're using the Tome "DC = 1/2 level + relevant mod" thing instead of the normal "DC = spell level + relevant mod" thing, the bard progression just doesn't outpace immunity / resistance or provide enough volume to be a primary class feature.

So if you're sticking with it, you need a primary level appropriate shtick for the class. And once you have that you can skip the spell level adjustments, at least any that you wouldn't also do for the druid list.

If they're instead supposed to be using the spells for offense some of the time and some other class feature the rest of the time, over all levels, then Radiant's suggestion is probably the best call, with a somewhat narrow spell list.

AndreiChekov · Post by **AndreiChekov** » Fri Jun 06, 2014 4:50 am

I think that I will just post the class as it is so far in IMOI.

RadiantPhoenix · Post by **RadiantPhoenix** » Fri Jun 06, 2014 6:46 am

AndreiChekov wrote:Whats wrong with having the same spells but at a different spell level?

Because every time you make a spell available at a lower spell level, parties of wizards get even more potentially powerful.

Oh, and some more magic item creation jobs get outsourced to Chinese artificers even more hardcore.

AndreiChekov · Post by **AndreiChekov** » Fri Jun 06, 2014 10:13 pm

RadiantPhoenix wrote:
AndreiChekov wrote:Whats wrong with having the same spells but at a different spell level?
Because every time you make a spell available at a lower spell level, parties of wizards get even more potentially powerful.

Oh, and some more magic item creation jobs get outsourced to Chinese artificers even more hardcore.

So, what about having the 6 levels of spell like abilities with spell like abilities per day slots?

Or have 6 levels of some other totally-not-spellcasting

RadiantPhoenix · Post by **RadiantPhoenix** » Sat Jun 07, 2014 12:46 am

I still don't see what the point of making a spell progression only go up to 6 is if you're going to give them more-or-less the same spells anyway.

AndreiChekov · Post by **AndreiChekov** » Sat Jun 07, 2014 3:18 am

class table aesthetics. It makes it clear at a glance that it is a partial caster.

shadzar · Post by **shadzar** » Sat Jun 07, 2014 4:56 am

just adjust druid spell progression to ever other level in the list.

level 1 spells come at level 1

level 2 must wait to level 3.

level 3 on the list must wait until level 5, etc.

then for the other part of the ranger, the fighting, the even number levels give those parts, or whatever parts you wanted from the bard class.

,aybe some explanation of how this "true ranger" is being designed outside of abilities would be helpful, like its functions and such that differe it from other ranger classes presented all over games?

AndreiChekov · Post by **AndreiChekov** » Sat Jun 07, 2014 5:09 am

The Hart Warden

I started a thread in IMOI about it because I actually have enough of the class concept for it to be there as I finalize it.