RC's new skill system (Part 1: Stealth Skills)

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RandomCasualty
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RC's new skill system (Part 1: Stealth Skills)

Post by RandomCasualty »

General Rules
Skill Points: Characters no longer buy ranks in a skill, they buy skill abilities with skill points. Spending points on crossclass skill abilities costs 50% more skill points than buying it as a class skill.

Skill checks: Skill checks are no longer done with ranks. They are simply 1d20 + hit dice + ability modifier relevant to the skill. Monsters use their CR in place of hit dice. Characters may still take 10 and 20 as per the normal rules for doing such.

The Skills

Spot (Wis)
Action: Normally spotting happens automatically. Though trying to spot something you had missed previously requires a move action. Becoming observant or wary are move actions.
Try Again: Yes, unless stated otherwise.
Spot States:
Spot has four states.
Distracted: You are focusing on something else that requires significant attention focus, such as picking a lock or casting a spell. Also any search attempt causes you to be distracted against things not in the area you are searching.
Passive: You are not directly expecting trouble but are still somewhat on guard.
Wary: A wary character is searching around and expecting danger. He is looking from side to side and actively listening for threats.
Observant:An observant character is directly looking at a creature or object and watching it intently. Against the things you are not being observant towards, you are considered distracted.

Untrained:
Change State: You may become Wary towards half of the battlefield as a move action. Draw a line through your square in any direction you choose. You can become wary towards all the squares on the opposite side of the line. You may not become wary if you take any action that would make you distracted in the same round. If you previously took any such an action, you are prevented from becoming wary, and if you take an action, you immediately go from wary state to distracted.

You may also become observant of a single target as swift action. You may not become observant if you perform a standard or full action that does not affect that target earlier in the round and lose that state if you perform the actions after becoming observant. So you may be observant of a target you attacked, but not of a secondary target while doing something else.

Either state lasts for 1 round. Normal characters cannot remain wary for very long periods. You can at most keep burning actions on being wary for 10 minutes. Then you must take a break for 10 minutes before you can become wary again. A character that has been wary for 60 minutes in any given day suffers a -2 penalty to spot checks due to mental fatigue until he gets an 8 hour rest.

Check: You rarely make checks for spot, instead your skill acts as a DC for those using stealth against you. If you are part of a group, figure the DC by taking the best spot rating in the group and modifying it for group modifiers (see table).

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[br]	Modifier to spot skill	Condition [br]	+5			Target is 10 ft or less away			[br]	+0 			Target is 15 ft to 50 ft away[br]	-2			Target is 50 to 100 ft away. [br]	-5 			Target is 100 ft to 200 ft. away[br]	-10 			Target is 200 ft to 500 ft. away[br]	-15 			Target is 500 ft or more. away[br]	-10			You are distracted[br]	+5 			You are wary. [br]	+10 			You are observant on the target. [br]	+2			Group of at least two[br]	+4			Group of at least four[br]	+6			Group of at least eight[br] 



Abilities:
Skilled Eyes (4 skill points): You receive a +5 skill bonus to your spot skill.

Aware (4 skill points): You may become wary as a swift action instead of a move action, so long as you perform only move actions during that turn.
Combat Perception (4 skill points, prereq: Aware): You may become wary even if you perform a standard or full action, unless that action would make you distracted.
Observant Focus (4 skill points): You can become observant versus a target as a free action instead of a swift action. You can perform actions on other targets without losing your observation, so long as that action doesn’t cause you to become distracted.
Multi-Observation (4 skill points, prereq: Observant Focus): You can follow two targets at once. Each time you take this ability you may be observant towards an extra target.
Greater Observation (4 skill points): When observing a target you are considered passive versus other things, not distracted.

Always Wary (4 skill points, prereq: Combat Perception, Greater Observation): You are always considered to be wary unless you are distracted.

Read Lips (4 skill points): If you can make a successful spot check against DC 0 against a target you can see, you are capable of reading its lips. You must also use and maintain observation on that creature to read its lips.


Stealth (Dex, Armor check penalty)
Action: Stealth generally occurs as part of an action. You can move and sneak or stay stationary and simply hide.
Try Again: So long as you meet the criteria for the stealth action, you can probably retry it.
Untrained: Any character can try to perform some of the following actions, trained characters merely perform them better.
Check: When making stealth checks, a character applies modifiers based on their size. This is a +/- 4 points per size category above or below medium, with smaller creatures receiving a bonus to stealth.

Hiding: A character who is partially behind cover and not moving is considered to be hiding. This entails peeking out around corners and so on. Make a hide check against the target’s spot only. A character that is the target of observation cannot hide at all. Because he’s not moving, a character receives a +5 bonus to his stealth check. A character using special cover (such as something with only eye slits, receives an additional +5 bonus to his stealth skill). Keep the same hide roll through the entire encounter, but note it incase modifiers change. It remains for as long as the character is hidden.

Sneaking: Sneaking involves moving while remaining unseen. It uses the same modifiers as hiding but to detect you, make a hide check against the target’s listen and spot. Apply the same roll to both spot and listen to see if they detected you and treat as two separate DCs. If you fail by only the listen DC, the target can hear but not see you, and vice versa. For each round you sneak, your targets get another check to detect you. Sneaking requires that you begin and end your turn in cover or concealment. Sneaking will not cover up such actions as making attack rolls and spellcasting, which are detected normally. You may not sneak in the same round in which you attacked or cast a spell.
Other modifiers apply to sneaking. For distance modifiers, use the closest distance you would achieve during your sneak.

Breaking Cover: You may momentarily break cover, while sneaking though this inflicts a penalty. To figure out how much of a penalty, find the character’s modified movement on a double move. Factor in the speed he is going due to sneaking (1/4 speed for instance means you use ¼ of his normal double move). Then figure the distance during that sneak in which he has no cover. The table under check gives the penalty for moving half or more than half the distance without cover or concealment. Note that the character need not use his entire move during his turn, he must merely be able to move that fast. Faster characters are exposed for less time.

Camouflage: Camouflage is trying to hide without cover or concealment by blending into one’s environment. Camouflage generally requires special camouflaged clothing that matches the environment in some way. It may involve face paints as well. A character who has camouflage using cover and/or concealment forces a -2 penalty to opponent’s spot skill to detect him. A character who does not have cover or concealment can still attempt to hide or sneak using camouflage alone, but opponents gain a +5 to their spot checks to detect him. It is effectively the same as breaking cover during an entire sneak.

Evading Darkvision: A character does not require cover or concealment to sneak or hide from darkvision, nor does he benefit from camouflage. If a character has cover or concealment versus dark vision, targets get a –2 to their skill to spot him. Those who don’t have either cover or concealment grant opponents a +5 bonus to their spot skills, but otherwise can move about and hide freely.

Surprise Attack: A character using stealth may wish to sneak up on a character and launch a surprise attack. This is treated as a sneak attempt however, the character need not have cover or concealment when he ends his movement. If successful the attempt goes directly into a surprise round. Even if unsuccessful, it merely requires an initiative roll. After the surprise round, the enemy becomes aware of the stealthy character of course. If for whatever reason the character doesn’t decide to take his surprise round, the enemy becomes aware of him if he’s not behind cover or concealment when he ended his move.

Sniping: Sniping is a special surprise attack in which the character attacks with a ranged weapon and tries not to be seen. Treat it as hiding, only at a –10 penalty to stealth skill. Even if not spotted, characters will receive a general idea of the snipers basic direction based on the traveling of the arrow.

Doorway Ambush: You lie in wait behind a corner or along the sides of a doorway, so that you’re right in melee range when a target enters. If you had spotted this target prior to lying in wait and the target isn’t wary towards the direction it is traveling, you automatically get a surprise round. If the target is wary you must beat a DC of 11 + its spot skill to get the surprise round. Otherwise roll initiative as normal. If you are capable of climbing and placing yourself above an archway, you may also treat this as a doorway ambush, so long as you have cover to the creature before it moves through the doorway or passage.

Corner Infiltration: You lie in wait at a corner, similar to a doorway ambush, but instead of attacking the target directly, you move into the room from which the target came from without him knowing you were there. A corner infiltration requires a readied action to set up properly. Treat it as a sneak attempt, but you get a +5 to your skill against passive spotting targets. You do not require that you start with cover or concealment as part of your corner infiltration, but you must end behind cover or concealment.

Check: A stealth check is a skill roll against a DC equal to 11 + the target’s relevant skill (usually spot or listen). If there are multiple targets, use the best skill among the group and apply bonuses to observation skill for numbers described in those skills. If the stealth check is against multiple DCs, such as both spot and listen, only make one stealth check and consider the result versus each DC individually. Thus it is possible to be heard but not seen.

Split modifiers apply separately to spotting or listening. The first is to vision only, the second is to listening only. If the modifier is not split, it applies to both equally.

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[br]Modifiers to Stealth skill[br]	+5			Moving at ¼ speed [br]	+0 			Moving at half speed[br]	-5			Moving at normal speed[br]	-10 			Running[br]	+5/+0			Have total cover or concealment for at least half the sneak.[br]	-5/+0			Must break cover or concealment for at least half the sneak.[br]	-2/+0			Must break cover or conceal for less than half the sneak.[br]	-5/+0			Sneaking or hiding in constricting tunnel[br]	+0/-5			Sneaking across noisy surface[br]	+5/+0			Have the benefit of cover and concealment. [br]

Abilities:
Hide (4 skill points): You receive a +5 skill bonus to your stealth skill when hiding.
Sneaky (4 skill points, prereq: Hide): You receive a +5 skill bonus to your stealth skill when sneaking or performing corner infiltrations.
Darkvision Eluder (4 skill points): Against darkvision, you receive a +5 bonus to your stealth skill (this stacks with other modifiers).
Ambusher (4 skill points): You receive a +5 ambush bonus to your stealth skill when attempting to initiate a surprise attack or a doorway ambush (this stacks with all other modifiers.)
Camouflage Expert (4 skill points): You are adept at creating useful camo gear for yourself and companions. For 2 gp worth of supplies per person, you can grant them improved camouflage. A character using improved camouflage inflicts an additional –2 penalty to their opponent’s spot skill when using camouflage. This does not work against darkvision however. It takes 2 minutes to apply camouflage in this way.
Stealth Aide (4 skill points, prereq: Hide, Sneaky): As a standard action you can confer a +4 skill bonus to the stealth skill of a target of your choice.
Stealth Leader (4 skill points, prereq: Stealth Aide): When traveling with a group, you may choose to roll a single stealth check for the entire group, using your stealth, assuming they are performing an action as one. You take a –1 penalty for each member of the group beyond you and you assume the largest armor check penalty within the group as a penalty to your roll.
Off Guard (4 skill points): Against targets which you successfully use a surprise attack, they lose their dex bonuses while flat footed even if they possess the uncanny dodge ability.
Silent Step (4 skill points): Opponents suffer a –4 penalty on listen skill to hear you while using any stealth skill that requires ground movement.
Improved Silent Step (4 skill points, prereq: Silent Step): You avoid making ground vibrations to prevent creatures with tremorsense from detecting you. While moving, you may utilize the stealth skill against a creature with tremorsense, where that creature uses its listen roll to oppose your sneaking, but suffers no listen penalty for listening through walls.
Stealth Grapple (4 skill points): When making grapple attempts against a target as the result of a surprise attack or doorway ambush, you gain a +5 to your grapple check. This applies to all grapple checks until the grapple ends. If you succeed on your initial grapple check, you prevent the target from making noise until he breaks the grapple.


Listen (Wis)
Listen works similar to spot however has a different set of modifiers. Unlike spotting, listening does not have any specific states. A character is always assumed to be listening for sounds.
Check: A listen check has the following modifiers.

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[br]	Modifier to listen skill	Condition [br]	+5			Target is 10 ft or less away			[br]	+0 			Target is 15 ft to 50 ft away[br]	-2			Target is 50 to 100 ft away. [br]	-5 			Target is 100 ft to 200 ft. away[br]	-10 			Target is 200 ft to 500 ft. away[br]	-15 			Target is 500 ft or more. away[br]	+5			Area is deathly silent[br]	+0			Normal noise (minor footsteps, normal voices)[br]	-5 			Loud background noise (combat, loud voices, crowds)[br]	-10 or worse		Exceptional background noise [br]	-10			You are asleep. [br]	-10			listening through a thin wall or door[br]	-20			listening through a thick wall. [br]


Extroardinary Success: If you succeed by 20 or more on your check, you determine the exact square a creature is in based solely on sound it is making.


Abilities:
Alert Ears (4 skill points): You get a +5 skill bonus to your listen skill.
Fight the Unseen (4 skill points): You pinpoint a creature’s exact square by beating the DC by 15 instead of beating it by 20.
Active Listener (4 skill points): If you use a move action specifically to listen, you get a +5 bonus on listen checks for 1 round.
Hear non-sounds (Su) (4 skill points): You can make listen checks at a –10 penalty to hear sounds that would have occurred within the range of a silence spell or similar magical effect which would normally nullify sound.

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Cielingcat
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Re: RC's new skill system (Part 1: Stealth Skills)

Post by Cielingcat »

RandomCasualty at [unixtime wrote:1170268322[/unixtime]]
Spot (Wis)
Action: Normally spotting happens automatically. Though trying to spot something you had missed previously requires a move action. Becoming observant or wary are swift actions.

This is contrary to where you state that becoming Wary towards half the battlefield is a move action.

If you previously took such an action, you are prevented from becoming wary, and if you take an action, you immediately go from wary state to distracted.

"An action" should probably be "any such action."

Either state lasts for 1 round. Normal characters cannot remain wary for very long periods. For instance, a guard cannot remain wary for his entire watch.

Long periods should be defined.

A target can hear but not see you and vice versa.

This is a bit awkward. Consider saying "A target who only makes his Listen check can hear you but not see you, and vice versa."

Camouflage: Camouflage is trying to hide without cover or concealment by blending into one’s environment. Camouflage generally requires special camouflaged clothing that matches the environment in some way. It may involve face paints as well. A character who has camouflage using cover and/or concealment forces a -2 penalty to opponent’s spot skill to detect him. A character who does not have cover or concealment can still attempt to hide or sneak using camouflage alone, but opponents gain a +5 to their spot checks to detect him. It is effectively the same as breaking cover during an entire sneak.

Since Spot is supposed to be the DC, you should give bonuses and penalties to the Stealth check, not the Spot one. So, a camouflaged and concealed character should get +2, and an unconcealed but camouflaged one should get -5.

Evading Darkvision: A character does not require cover or concealment to sneak or hide from darkvision, nor does he benefit from camouflage. If a character has cover or concealment versus dark vision, targets get a –2 to their skill to spot him. Those who don’t have either cover or concealment grant opponents a +5 bonus to their spot skills, but otherwise can move about and hide freely.

This means that, when someone is using Darkvision, you do not require cover or concealment to hide from them, but if you don't they get a +5 bonus to their Spot check, correct? Also, the same thing about modifying the check instead of the DC applies.

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[br]Modifiers to Stealth skill[br]	+5			Moving at ¼ speed [br]	+0 			Moving at half speed[br]	-5			Moving at normal speed[br]	-10 			Running[br]	+5/+0			Have total cover or concealment for at least half the sneak.[br]	-5/+0			Must break cover or concealment for at least half the sneak.[br]	-2/+0			Must break cover or conceal for less than half the sneak.[br]	-5/+0			Sneaking or hiding in constricting tunnel[br]	+0/-5			Sneaking across noisy surface[br]	+5/+0			Have the benefit of cover and concealment. [br]

The bonuses from cover and total cover should stack to be a total of +10, correct?

Camouflage Expert (4 skill points): You are adept at creating useful camo gear for yourself and companions. For 2 gp worth of supplies per person, you can grant them improved camouflage. A character using improved camouflage inflicts an additional –2 penalty to their opponent’s spot skill when using camouflage. This does not work against darkvision however. It takes 2 minutes to apply camouflage in this way.

Should be a +2 bonus instead of a -2 penalty.

Silent Step (4 skill points): Opponents suffer a –4 penalty on listen skill to hear you while performing move actions.

So this applies only when taking a single move, or does it work for a double move as well?
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Endovior
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Re: RC's new skill system (Part 1: Stealth Skills)

Post by Endovior »

Interesting idea... I quite like it, although the wording is confusing in places, as Cielingcat pointed out. I'd very much like to see more of these...


Also, a thought occurs. You should probably make some reference to whether the skill is a class skill or not when determining applicable bonuses; it stretches belief that a single-classed Paladin can sneak better then a trained Rogue based off HD alone. I'd suggest that if a given skill was ever a class skill for a given person at any time, then they get full HD for determining skill ability. If a given skill was never a class skill for them at any time, then they only get half HD for determining skill ability (only if the skill allows untrained use).
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Sma
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Re: RC's new skill system (Part 1: Stealth Skills)

Post by Sma »

Since keeping the DC's & Boni seems like the point, goign back to the broken mechanic of one person getting half the bonus than the next each level, seems like missing the point. Plus the trained rogue will have a better bonus than the untrained Paladin anyway.
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Re: RC's new skill system (Part 1: Stealth Skills)

Post by RandomCasualty »

I fixed most of the stuff you mentioned.

Cielingcat at [unixtime wrote:1170274145[/unixtime]]
This means that, when someone is using Darkvision, you do not require cover or concealment to hide from them, but if you don't they get a +5 bonus to their Spot check, correct? Also, the same thing about modifying the check instead of the DC applies.

Right. I wanted darkvision to be less of a universal crutch. Now races like the drow may have reason to want to place torches and other light sources around.


About the penalties and bonuses, basically here's the problem. You're making one stealth check against effectively two DCs, one is 11 + their spot and another is 11 + their listen. If it applies to only a single one of those DCs I tend to express it as a penalty for simplicity, since things like camouflage won't help you be unheard, but will affect your spot DC only.

I'm not sure if there's an easier way to express that, but saying "a +5 to your stealth check for purposes of the listen DC only" seems a bit more awkward than just lowering the DC.

The idea was to try to have fewer rolls, so you're not rolling hide versus spot and then move silent versus listen (which has double the chance of a bad roll). So I combined them into a single roll. In general, you'll probably just be worried about the spot check. But in some cases where you've got extreme modifiers, like a lot of cover and concealment, you may also care if the guy was heard too.


The bonuses from cover and total cover should stack to be a total of +10, correct?

Well, assuming you were sneaking and had total cover for part of the sneak and cover and concealment at one point, then yes they'd stack. Though keep in mind that total cover grants a perfect bonus against being seen anyway, so you'd only really care if you were sneaking. The cover and concealment modifier was generally there for situations like hiding behind a bush in a fog bank or sneaking in similar situations.
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Re: RC's new skill system (Part 1: Stealth Skills)

Post by RandomCasualty »

Sma at [unixtime wrote:1170280266[/unixtime]]Since keeping the DC's & Boni seems like the point, goign back to the broken mechanic of one person getting half the bonus than the next each level, seems like missing the point. Plus the trained rogue will have a better bonus than the untrained Paladin anyway.


Yeah, exactly the idea is to keep the bonuses relatively the same for characters of the same level. So a 1st level rogue sneaking past a 1st level fighter has the same chance as a 10th level rogue sneaking past a 10th level fighter.

So I wanted to avoid any kind of bonus gaps between class and crossclass skills. Buying each skill ability costs 50% more for a crossclass and I think that's generally enough. But the idea is that people are getting abilities each level as opposed to bonuses.
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Re: RC's new skill system (Part 1: Stealth Skills)

Post by Josh_Kablack »

RandomCasualty at [unixtime wrote:1170268322[/unixtime]]General Rules
Skill Points: Characters no longer buy ranks in a skill, they buy skill abilities with skill points. Spending points on crossclass skill abilities costs 50% more skill points than buying it as a class skill.


Conceptually I like this idea a lot. I'm a bit concerned about the added complexity getting too high for players though.


Skill checks: Skill checks are no longer done with ranks. They are simply 1d20 + hit dice + ability modifier relevant to the skill.


I'm skeptical of including hit dice directly in there due to the huge discepency between PC level and the Hit Dice for many monsters, especially some monsters which aren't supposed to be good at certain skills.



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[br]	Modifier to spot skill	Condition [br]	+5			Target is 10 ft or less away			[br]	+0 			Target is 15 ft to 50 ft away[br]	-2			Target is 50 to 100 ft away. [br]	-5 			Target is 100 ft to 200 ft. away[br]	-10 			Target is 200 ft to 500 ft. away[br]	-15 			Target is 500 ft or more. away[br]	-10			You are distracted[br]	+5 			You are wary. [br]	+10 			You are observant on the target. [br]	+2			Group of at least two[br]	+4			Group of at least four[br]	+6			Group of at least eight[br] 



You should probably include the modifers for the target's size somewhere in one of these skills.


Abilities:
Skilled Eyes (4 skill points):


I know you're making this backwards compatible to integrate with 3.x easily, but the legacy mechanic of having everything cost 4 skill points bugs me. If they are all going to cost the same, I'd rather see skills revamped so that characters got fewer ranks and one ability per rank.


Breaking Cover: You may momentarily break cover, while sneaking though this inflicts a penalty. To figure out how much of a penalty, find the character’s modified movement on a double move. Factor in the speed he is going due to sneaking (1/4 speed for instance means you use ¼ of his normal double move). Then figure the distance during that sneak in which he has no cover. The table under check gives the penalty for moving half or more than half the distance without cover or concealment. Note that the character need not use his entire move during his turn, he must merely be able to move that fast. Faster characters are exposed for less time.


Remember what I was saying about complexity? This should at least have the wording clarified, and possibly the mechanics simplified, or at least a simple rule for common cases - something like no penalty if movement is 5' step or less.



Sniping: Sniping is a special surprise attack in which the character attacks with a ranged weapon and tries not to be seen. Treat it as hiding, only at a –10 penalty to stealth skill. Even if not spotted, characters will receive a general idea of the snipers basic direction based on the traveling of the arrow.


How's 3.5 work on the whip again? Is whip sniping possible? Should it be? Does there even need to be a melee/range distinction other than distance modifiers which make melee sniping extremely unlikely.?


Corner Infiltration:

I recommend renaming this. Otherwise irregularly shaped rooms will cause stupid arguments. "You can't use corner infiltration, it's a round cavern" "You totally said there were stalictites taller than me by the entrance I was lurking behind one" "that's not a corner", etc.

Good job laying the groundwork here though, I'm looking forward to seeing how the full project progresses
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Re: RC's new skill system (Part 1: Stealth Skills)

Post by The_Matthew »

RandomCasualty at [unixtime wrote:1170268322[/unixtime]]
Change State: You may become Wary towards half of the battlefield as a move action. Draw a line through your square in any direction you choose. You can become wary towards all the squares on the opposite side of the line. You may not become wary if you take any action that would make you distracted in the same round. If you previously took any such an action, you are prevented from becoming wary, and if you take an action, you immediately go from wary state to distracted.

You may also become observant of a single target as swift action. You may not become observant if you perform a standard or full action that does not affect that target earlier in the round and lose that state if you perform the actions after becoming observant. So you may be observant of a target you attacked, but not of a secondary target while doing something else.

Either state lasts for 1 round. Normal characters cannot remain wary for very long periods. You can at most keep burning actions on being wary for 10 minutes. Then you must take a break for 10 minutes before you can become wary again. A character that has been wary for 60 minutes in any given day suffers a -2 penalty to spot checks due to mental fatigue until he gets an 8 hour rest.

I just wanted to point out that because of how this ability is stated, it is actually unclear as to whether this ability is necessary:
RandomCasualty at [unixtime wrote:1170268322[/unixtime]]
Aware (4 skill points): You may become wary as a swift action instead of a move action, so long as you perform no standard or full actions during that turn.

Mostly because of the full round action Double Move which lets you do two whole move actions, for example move and become wary. And honestly, I don't think people need any special training to be able to move while being wary none the less.

My suggestion here would be to have Aware be stated like this instead:

Aware (4 skill points): You may become wary as a swift action instead of a move action, so long as you perform only move actions during that turn.

Or in fact to get rid of it entirely.
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Re: RC's new skill system (Part 1: Stealth Skills)

Post by RandomCasualty »

Josh_Kablack at [unixtime wrote:1170577038[/unixtime]]
I'm skeptical of including hit dice directly in there due to the huge discepency between PC level and the Hit Dice for many monsters, especially some monsters which aren't supposed to be good at certain skills.

Yeah. I wasn't sure what a great way to deal with monsters would be. It's possible to use CR instead of HD, I should probably put that in there, though it makes PCs a bit more difficult to handle.



You should probably include the modifers for the target's size somewhere in one of these skills.

Yeah, I was sort of just assuming the basic modifiers to hide skill would apply. I placed that in there.


I know you're making this backwards compatible to integrate with 3.x easily, but the legacy mechanic of having everything cost 4 skill points bugs me. If they are all going to cost the same, I'd rather see skills revamped so that characters got fewer ranks and one ability per rank.

Well, basically I didn't want to go revising all the classes too, so I just stuck with the same skill point base. I don't plan on doing 4 skill points as a standard for the entire system, however I want to keep the skill points an even number to make the 50% extra mechanic for crossclass easy to calculate. So I figure we'll see skill abilities costing 2, 4, 6,8 and possibly 10 skill points.

I remained at 4 for most of these abilities since I haven't really started any fine balance tweaking yet.


Remember what I was saying about complexity? This should at least have the wording clarified, and possibly the mechanics simplified, or at least a simple rule for common cases - something like no penalty if movement is 5' step or less.

Well your movement is never 5' or less, since you have to begin and end a move with cover or concealment to remain hidden, since everything is done in squares, this would amount to not breaking cover at all.

As far as simplification, I'm open to suggestions. I didn't want to make it too simple however, since I wanted hiding to be partially tactical and more about circumstantial modifiers. I didn't want the system to be overly simplified like the existing one, but I don't want it to be a rules monster either. I also wanted to have a few categories of modifiers but not the current -1 per 10 ft rule that requires people count a lot of squares.

So I'm not sure yet if I've gone over the line yet. That may only come out with some playtesting.


How's 3.5 work on the whip again? Is whip sniping possible? Should it be? Does there even need to be a melee/range distinction other than distance modifiers which make melee sniping extremely unlikely.?

Yeah, I suppose I could remove that restriction, I just generally felt that melee sniping was pretty dumb to the point that we probably didn't even need it there.


Corner Infiltration:
I recommend renaming this. Otherwise irregularly shaped rooms will cause stupid arguments. "You can't use corner infiltration, it's a round cavern" "You totally said there were stalictites taller than me by the entrance I was lurking behind one" "that's not a corner", etc.

Yeah, that's probably a good idea. Do you have any possible alternate names? I can't immediately think of one right now.


Good job laying the groundwork here though, I'm looking forward to seeing how the full project progresses


Thanks. I'm hoping with everyone's input I can get this system reasonably well running and balanced at some point, along with the rest of the skills.
RandomCasualty
Prince
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Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

Re: RC's new skill system (Part 1: Stealth Skills)

Post by RandomCasualty »

The_Matthew at [unixtime wrote:1170620832[/unixtime]]
My suggestion here would be to have Aware be stated like this instead:

Aware (4 skill points): You may become wary as a swift action instead of a move action, so long as you perform only move actions during that turn.

Or in fact to get rid of it entirely.


Ok I'll reword it that way.
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