Hard Choices & Consequence: what games ?

[silva]

Since playing Fallout 2 in the PC Im a bitch for the concept on the electronic environment (gimme Troika-like Choice and Consequence over Bioware-like combat-ad-infinitum and emo-romance any day), and since playing Unknown Armies rpg (You wanna do magic ? Sure, take this spell. oh but for fueling it you must risk your social life, your meat, and your sanity. Have a happy life), Im a bitch for it on the tabletop environment.

So, what other rpgs follow the trend of "hard choices & consequences" in your opinion ?


Obs: fake C&C like Shadowrun magic drain doesnt count, since every non-retard player knows how to compensate it.

[Sakuya Izayoi]

The issue I see with trying to do "hard choice" like in a CRPG is that in a CRPG, every possible solution has been prepped for. Whereas in a tabletop RPG, there tends to be Schrodinger's Boxes along every step of the way, since the GM's only real hope in the face of player agency is to have a robust set of NPC statblocks ready to react to whatever you might try. This is apparent somewhat even in the world of CRPGs: Troika never made a game with the kind of costs that the Mass Effect series did (given their track record for polish, it's not surprising no publisher ever gave them that much money), so they were able to develop content to support a variety of approaches (theoretically. The sewers in Bloodlines had an infamously game-stopping lack of non-combat methods of bypassing them.)

The magic system (as described) doesn't really seem like its a real choice, as you're not going to take an ability and then NOT use it, which is wasted opportunity cost. If you're going to pay the big blind you might as well go all-in.

[Ice9]

The issue I see with trying to do "hard choice" like in a CRPG is that in a CRPG, every possible solution has been prepped for.

I think you (mostly) can't do "no-win moral dilemma" situations, because setting one up is usually incompatible with player agency. Honestly, I'm fine with that - most of those situations in fiction annoy me because they feel forced - "It's only a dilemma because the character is holding the idiot ball and not doing X instead!"

I think silva is talking more about significant costs that you have to think hard about paying. Which is fairly do-able in TTRPGs. Do-able but not always fun - there's a fine line to walk, because - personally, at least - I don't choose to play a mage so I can sit around avoiding magic. "The really potent stuff has a potent cost" - yes. "Wise mages avoid casting spells at all" - fuck no.

[silva]

Sakuya, the point in Unknown Armies is not taking an ability then not using it. You can be a Luckymancer (I forgot the name of this luck-risky based kind of adept) and just gamble for small charges, which would give you only minor spell effects like swapping tens for digits in some d100 rolls, or finding small objects youre looking for and such. You could get this kind of minor powers by simply gambling small objects of value for you or risking small damages to your self, etc. But to really get the kind of world-shaking reality bending magical effects (like making all the guards in a building go take a crap the exact moment you go in or, dont know, winning 1 million dollars in the lottery ) it would cost you a real big risk taking.

Something like this. Or worse.

So the choice is not "Should I be an adept or not", the choice is "How far do I go for power ?".

[angelfromanotherpin]

Check out With Great Power.

[silva]

Check out With Great Power.

Wow, that looks awesome! Can you give some example of the rules in action ? The wikipedia article is kind of confuse.

[angelfromanotherpin]

Do a search on the site for my name and the game title, I discussed it at some length years ago.

[silva]

I remember Dont Rest Your Head having some mechanic like this, where you could use more dice for achieve what you want, but that risked your sanity more. Also, DitV with escalation and Sorcerer with its bangs.

[silva]

I remember Dont Rest Your Head having some mechanic like this, where you could use more dice for achieve what you want, but that risked your sanity more.