[Dom4] Clusterfuck

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Disciple Game?

Poll ended at Tue Dec 24, 2013 7:51 am

Yes
1
17%
No
5
83%
 
Total votes: 6

Zinegata
Prince
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Post by Zinegata »

angelfromanotherpin wrote:
Zinegata wrote:Ah, so that's where Lanka invested it's research. Well worth finally retiring the Ulmish archer corps.
Care to share?
Ulm basically cleaned up Lanka's raiders, but our own first non-raid attack towards a Lankan fort failed. Lost a bunch of Steel Maidens and the last of our archers, in exchange for a pile of undead that will no doubt take no more than a turn to replace via undead summoning. This is the price of hubris - e.g. believing that Flaming Arrow armies would still work in the science fiction future.

So my guess is that Lanka's loss of 125 Raksharaja Warriors last turn (625 Blood Slaves worth) and a further 5 this turn now hurts a little less; along with the two 50 blood slave Dakinis they've already lost and various Asparas on the side. Yes, that's the kind of Titanicus-level stuff we're throwing around as "probing forces" now apparently.

Personally though, I think the reality is we both got a little overconfident. I expect both of our future assault forces to be a bit more refined and sophisticated. It is a fun end-game war that we don't often see.

That said, Ulm only lost one mage to Lanka's four in the battle (I have no problem trading 135 gold Shamans for 155 gold Yoginis on a 4:1 basis in my favor; especially knowing Lanka's cash position. K's not kidding when he says his starting position was screwed up) but the real benefit is that I now know specifically where Lanka's research went and where it will be for a few more turns. And I'm fairly certain what kind of strategy Lanka is aiming for at this point (it's what I would do if I were in his position).

In other news, Gaia's Blessing apparently grants only 5 points of resistance, not 10 claimed in the manual. Still pretty useful though.
Last edited by Zinegata on Sun Mar 09, 2014 4:23 am, edited 4 times in total.
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angelfromanotherpin
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Post by angelfromanotherpin »

I'm not going to be near a copy of Dom4 for the next 3 days. I understand if nobody wants to wait that long, but I'd appreciate not missing more than 1 turn.
Zinegata
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Post by Zinegata »

I'd actually like an extension for the next turn, as work is a bit hectic and the war is getting really interesting now.
Korwin
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Post by Korwin »

extended turn
Red_Rob wrote: I mean, I'm pretty sure the Mayans had a prophecy about what would happen if Frank and PL ever agreed on something. PL will argue with Frank that the sky is blue or grass is green, so when they both separately piss on your idea that is definitely something to think about.
Zinegata
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Post by Zinegata »

Oh, and I forgot to mention one amusing thing this turn:

I had a lone Warrior Smith defend against a raiding party this turn. Since I'm Ulm, I imagine he did the "What matters is that one stood against many!" speech, before casting Phoenix Pyre.

Predictably, he blew up. Incredibly, the explosion took out most of the raiders and sent them running. Hilariously, the Smith survived.

Sure, the Smith lost an arm, an eye, and is looking at me half-crazed from PTSD, but he lived! Apparently, valor does please Crom!
K
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Post by K »

Can I get a 24 hour extension? These endgame turns are kinda brutal.
Korwin
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Post by Korwin »

Done
Red_Rob wrote: I mean, I'm pretty sure the Mayans had a prophecy about what would happen if Frank and PL ever agreed on something. PL will argue with Frank that the sky is blue or grass is green, so when they both separately piss on your idea that is definitely something to think about.
K
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Post by K »

Finally, a battle where my troops follow the script to cast Fog Warriors.

BTW, thanks for all the Water Bottles. Those should come in handy if I ever have to face the Soulless you stole.
Zinegata
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Post by Zinegata »

K wrote:Finally, a battle where my troops follow the script to cast Fog Warriors.

BTW, thanks for all the Water Bottles. Those should come in handy if I ever have to face the Soulless you stole.
Indeed, though I have to note there's plenty more bottles where that came from. Water bottle duels anyone?

Where you really lucked out though was the assassin taking out the Army of Lead caster. Oh well, lesson learned: Double up on everything now.
Last edited by Zinegata on Sat Mar 22, 2014 3:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
K
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Post by K »

Fuck, the game staled me even though I sent in a turn.

If it keeps doing this, the game needs to be ended. I can't keep missing turns because that stale was devestating.
Last edited by K on Sun Mar 23, 2014 6:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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angelfromanotherpin
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Post by angelfromanotherpin »

K wrote:Fuck, the game staled me even though I sent in a turn.
That is a special kind of agony. My condolences.

In other news, Ur's breakout attempt failed, but his continuing the campaign of resistance this long shows real heart. Making me pay with frogged Fomorian Kings and all.
Zinegata
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Post by Zinegata »

I would like to request a turn extension as work will be a bit crazy tomorrow.

Also, that was a pretty awesome and prolonged battle at Lanka this turn... 100+ gems/slaves worth of magical troops lost on both sides, and something like six or seven battlefield enchanments cast in total.

A shame it ultimately ended up as an indecisive draw with both sides barely losing any mages.
Korwin
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Post by Korwin »

Zinegata wrote:I would like to request a turn extension as work will be a bit crazy tomorrow.
done
Red_Rob wrote: I mean, I'm pretty sure the Mayans had a prophecy about what would happen if Frank and PL ever agreed on something. PL will argue with Frank that the sky is blue or grass is green, so when they both separately piss on your idea that is definitely something to think about.
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angelfromanotherpin
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Post by angelfromanotherpin »

Can I get an extension?
Korwin
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Post by Korwin »

Sorry didnt see your post until now...
Send me an PN next time, to be shure.
Red_Rob wrote: I mean, I'm pretty sure the Mayans had a prophecy about what would happen if Frank and PL ever agreed on something. PL will argue with Frank that the sky is blue or grass is green, so when they both separately piss on your idea that is definitely something to think about.
K
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Post by K »

So I just got staled again. My capital was taken because no one was scripted or loaded with gems and like 300 gems worth of high-end summons were not summoned.

Congrats to Zinegata on winning the game. I'm out.
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angelfromanotherpin
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Post by angelfromanotherpin »

Yeah, I can't beat Zine on my own. Well done.
Zinegata
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Post by Zinegata »

Thanks guys. Sorry you got a stale K, that last battle was an extended nail-biter.

I have to say though, economically and research-wise Ulm had long been running away with the game. I'm now at level 9 for every school except Construction (which is at 8, and yes I have a lot of artifacts including Soul Stone of the Wolves) and Blood (which is at 0); and every single mage I had was about to leave their labs this turn to join the fighting.

Plus, I had a Tartarian Factory ready. I just had to take out K's GoH and take it for my own (and I was ready to cast it this turn after killing K's God) to begin Titan production in earnest.

Also, interestingly, life after death seems to preserve commander status now, so I have a Soulless with 6 Air Magic as she was formerly an Air Queen.
K
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Post by K »

Zinegata wrote:
Also, interestingly, life after death seems to preserve commander status now, so I have a Soulless with 6 Air Magic as she was formerly an Air Queen.
Interesting...
Korwin
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Post by Korwin »

Concrats Zinegata.

Winner: Ulm
Red_Rob wrote: I mean, I'm pretty sure the Mayans had a prophecy about what would happen if Frank and PL ever agreed on something. PL will argue with Frank that the sky is blue or grass is green, so when they both separately piss on your idea that is definitely something to think about.
Ikeren
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Post by Ikeren »

Anyone willing to give us plebes a summary of the game?
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angelfromanotherpin
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Post by angelfromanotherpin »

This is my perspective of the timeline, in broad.

1. Kailasa attempts to blitz Tien Chi. This stalls both their expansions, and Fomoria is the prime beneficiary, becoming the early big dog. Kailasa will eventually lose this war and be eliminated.

2. Fomoria and Ulm divide up Arcoscephale. Arco goes AI, and manages to hold some territories for quite a while based on nobody wanting to spend the effort to take them.

3. Pigpile on Fomoria! Ulm and Lanka are the prime combatants, but Tien Chi and Ur strike targets of opportunity. Fomoria negotiates a surrender, giving up all their Thrones, but retains most of their gold and gem base.

4. Fomoria invades Ur. There's some back and forth, with Fomoria mostly dominating, but Ur manages to survive until game ends.

5. Ulm attacks Tien Chi, managing to defeat all main field armies. Tien Chi goes AI. Ulm and Fomoria mostly divide their territory.

6. World is basically a three-power dilemma between Fomoria, Ulm, and Lanka; Fomoria is still occupied trying to finish off Ur. My guess is that neither Ulm nor Lanka wanted to attack me for fear of being teamed up on, because I felt like quite a juicy target.

7. Open conflict between Ulm and Lanka begins.

8. Fomoria preps to begin playing both sides in attempt to make a desperate play for victory, but unreliable servers glitch some key turns and Lanka falls before anything can come of it. With Lanka's submission (and some unfortunate endgame reverses in Ur), Fomoria cannot reasonably stand against Ulm and also concedes.

edit: I would particularly like to hear about the game from Ur's and Lanka's perspectives.
Last edited by angelfromanotherpin on Sun Mar 30, 2014 6:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Zinegata
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Post by Zinegata »

angel mainly nails it in the head, but here's a few notes from the Ulmish perspective.

1) Very early on I captured the Throne which produced Iron Order mages, giving my nation Astral + Earth capability. This proved to be a key advantage in later wars.

2) The other key advantage for Ulm was the fact that I had an enormous intelligence lead over my opponents. I had a scout in every non-Ulmish province by Turn 50, and in the provinces I didn't I had semi-regular scrying. This is why I was able to always end up on the right side of every alliance. I always knew the real "score".

3) The attack on Formoria was in fact a coalition between Lanka, Ur, and Ulm. TC was non-commital but eventually joined in. I essentially arranged it due to the intel advantage.

4) Capturing TC is what really pushed Ulm over the top. The former TC capital was, thanks to growth scales, producing 500 gold per turn. Ulm had in fact hit the maintenance cap just before our invasion of TC, but afterwards (especially with the windfall in gems) I could essentially go into full mass production mode of all types of mages, troops, magical commanders, and artifacts.

The game actually really wasn't so much a three-power dilemma after I captured TC. Instead it was a very powerful Ulm, against two weaker powers - Formoria and Lanka. Lanka's weaknesses may not be apparent, but I knew of it (and I'll cover it in the next section)

5) The final war for Ulm was always going to be against Lanka. I wasn't going to attack Formoria because I was already swimming in resources and Formoria had no thrones left. Beating Formoria just gives Lanka more time to build up, and I wasn't about to let that happen.

The reality of Lanka is that they actually squeaked by on extremely limited resources since day one. Lanka was essentially a 12-province power for almost the whole game (as opposed to Formoria and Ulm, both of whom were 20-25 province powers for most of the game; and by the end of it we were both essentially 30+ province powers), and to add insult to injury most of Lanka's lands were Wasteland.

Lanka's economy was thus absolutely wretched, made worse by Turmoil + Drain. Lanka's total research was in fact about a third of Ulm's total, and they were always strapped for cash. Much of the lategame was in fact a holding action by Lanka against a much richer opponent. That Lanka lasted so long owes to the fact that:

a) Lanka had gotten Gift of Health, which made his demon armies extremely strong.

b) Lanka had gotten gemgen globals which allowed him to keep summoning new magic troops despite the demons getting flattened by the Demon Cleansing + Rain of Stones combo

c) Lanka had an enormous pile of undead to hold his forts with.

We were in fact deadlocked for quite a while. Lanka managed to hold on to his forts, but I kept raiding his provinces and cut down his gem and income production (which again was never very high to begin with).

Finally, I suddenly shifted my center of effort - rather than continuing my previous assaults along Faran and Winter Peaks (two Throne provinces), I suddenly went for his capital; which was the center of his power base because all of his global spellcasters were stationed there.

I knew that the majority of the undead at the capital were out on patrol blood-hunting, so the first act was to steal all of his undead by casting Undead Mastery, supported by an army flown in via Flying Ship. Flipping 200+ undead to my side (and a stale on K's part) results in the capital fort being breached. Two bloody assaults later, the capital falls and all of his global casters are killed; which essentially causes the irrecoverable collapse of the Lankan economy and the surrender of that nation.

After that, it's essentially going to be academic as Ulm had already completely finished research, was ready to cast Gift of Health with no real challengers for at least a few turns, and I had a Tartarian Factory ready to go.

The only thing I couldn't figure out was why Lanka didn't go for the Burden of Time Solution, and instead went for Blood Vortex. At that point in the game BoT would have been very bad for Ulm as my armies were still essentially human and it would make my income turn wretched; but I guess Lanka's own income problems came into consideration.
K
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Post by K »

Zinegata wrote:
The only thing I couldn't figure out was why Lanka didn't go for the Burden of Time Solution, and instead went for Blood Vortex. At that point in the game BoT would have been very bad for Ulm as my armies were still essentially human and it would make my income turn wretched; but I guess Lanka's own income problems came into consideration.
I had very low Death income almost the entire the game (like 4-6) and I used it all for a few Spectres and skull staffs. Only a focused BoT strategy would have given me the gems required for the two Empowers and enough gems to put it up and keep it from coming down, and this would have cost me my access to Astral, Water and Earth and fair amount of other gems also converted to Death.

Honestly, my empire was made of illusion. Movement-eating provinces that also had little income kept my expansion and response times far too slow to build any reasonable momentum or take advantage of the opportunities that presented themselves.

PS. My gold income was 800-1000 the entire game and upkeep costs quickly lefty me with actual income of about 0 from around turn 30.
Last edited by K on Tue Apr 01, 2014 6:58 am, edited 2 times in total.
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