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The Sacred Fist: Revised!

 
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Lago_AM3P
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Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 1276

PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2004 2:31 am    Post subject: The Sacred Fist: Revised! Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Howdy, y'all.

I'm trying to convince a DM of an online game to approve a version of the Sacred Fist that won't completely hose players when they're forced to enter ranged combat, but she thought my version was a little overpowered and presented me with one of her own. Tell me what you think: Personally, I think it could use a little tooling up, but what do I know.


Requirements
BAB: +6

Skills: Knowledge(religion) 8 ranks, Tumble 4 ranks

Feats: Alertness, Combat Reflexes, Improved Unarmed Strike

Spells: Ability to cast and prepare divine spells of 3rd level or higher, or be able to cast bless weapon

Special: Must be able to turn or rebuke undead



Abilities:

Hit Dice: d8

Skills: Balance (Dex), Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Diplomacy (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Hide (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge (religion or arcana) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Sense Motive (Wis), Spellcraft (Int), Spot (Wis), Swim (Str), Tumble (Dex).

Skill Points: 4 + Int modifier



Level BAB Fort Ref Will Special Spells Per Day

1st +0 +2 +2 +2 Flurry of Blows, Puissant Fist
2nd +1 +3 +3 +3 Evasion +1 level of divine class
3rd +2 +3 +3 +3 Uncanny Dodge (Dex bonus to AC) +1 level of divine class
4th +3 +4 +4 +4 Ki Strike (magic)
5th +3 +4 +4 +4 Inner Harmony +1 level of divine class
6th +4 +5 +5 +5 Mysticism domain +1 level of divine class
7th +5 +5 +5 +5 Uncanny Dodge (canít be flanked)
8th +6 +6 +6 +6 Ki Strike (adamantine) +1 level of divine class
9th +6 +6 +6 +6 Slippery Mind +1 level of divine class
10th +7 +7 +7 +7 True Harmony


Special Features
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Sacred Fists gain no additional proficiency in weapons or armor. They may only use light armor without breaking their religious discipline (see Code of Conduct).


Code of Conduct: A member of a sacred fist order refuses to use any weapon, or any armor beyond light armor (including shields). A sacred fist who knowingly uses a weapon loses all divine spells and sacred fist class features and advances no further in her sacred fist class until he undergoes an atonement.


Spells Per Day: At certain levels, the sacred fist gains additional levels in his divine spellcasting class. This only increases his spells per level, it doesnít affect other abilities of the divine spellcasting class (smite evil attacks, turning undead, etc.).


Flurry of Blows (Ex): The sacred fist gains a flurry of blows ability, similar to that of a monk. They can only use this ability when using unarmed attacks, and they gain an additional attack at their highest attack bonus. However, all their attacks that round have a -2 penalty to hit. This penalty drops to -1 at 4th level, and is reduced to zero at 7th level. The sacred fist must use a full attack action to use this ability.


Puissant Fists (Ex): The sacred fist does damage with her unarmed attacks as a monk of the same level. If the sacred fist had monk levels prior to taking this class, her sacred fist levels stack with the monk levels for the purpose of determining unarmed damage (so a 5th level sacred fist with 3 levels of monk would do unarmed damage as an 8th level monk).


Evasion (Ex): A sacred fist can dodge and avoid area attacks with great agility. When he makes a Reflex save for half damage against an attack, he actually takes no damage on a successful save.


Uncanny Dodge (Ex): At 3rd level, the sacred fist can react to danger before his senses would normally allow him to do so. He retains his Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) regardless of being caught flat-footed or struck by an invisible attacker. At 7th level, the sacred fist can no longer be flanked, and thus can no longer be sneak attacked. The sacred fist can still be flanked by a rogue that is at least four levels higher.


Ki Strike (Su): Beginning at fourth level, the sacred fistís unarmed strikes are considered to be magic, for the purposes of penetrating damage reduction. Furthermore, at seventh level, the sacred fistís unarmed strikes are considered to be adamantine, for the purpose of ignoring object hardness as well as penetrating damage reduction.


Inner Harmony (Ex): At fifth level, the sacred fist begins to gain a deeper understanding of the mysteries of the world. He gains a dodge bonus to his AC equal to his Wisdom bonus (if positive) that is always in effect. This ability is always in effect.


Mysticism domain: The sacred fist gains access to the Mysticism domain at sixth level. This is treated as a prestige domain.


Slippery Mind (Ex): A sacred fist gains the ability to shrug off magical effects that would otherwise control or compel her. If a sacred fist with slippery mind is affected by an enchantment and fails her saving throw, one round later she can attempt her saving throw again. She only gets this one extra chance to succeed at her saving throw.

True Harmony (Ex): At 10th level, a sacred fistís harmony with himself protects him from external threats. He may, as a free action, invoke a +4 concentration bonus to AC, a +4 resistance bonus on all saves, and spell resistance equal to 20 + his Wisdom modifier, for a number of rounds equal to his sacred fist class level. These rounds need not be consecutive, and his Wisdom must be at least 12 in order to use this ability.
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FrankTrollman
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2004 8:23 am    Post subject: Re: The Sacred Fist: Revised! Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Um... you do realize that there is no limit to the number of times you can activate True Harmony in a day, right? That and the Spell Resistance is not scaled to character level, which will make it very dominating when you get it and become a non-ability later in life.

All told, it seems to have the basic dilemma of the Sacred fist - you can't actually hurt incorporeal creatures with your fists - so you have to rely upon your slightly withered spellcasting ability to handle that.

I'm not actually sure what the point is - backed up by the right kind of magic googies you can compete in a high-level world - but all of your unarmed combat abilities seem to boil down to having a bigger AC when wearing your Mithril Celestial Fullplate - your fists are a waste of time and you aren't allowed to use real weapons - so this class may as well be called "the really hard to get rid of healing guy". And the loss of caster levels make that kind of iffy.

-Frank
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Lago_AM3P
Duke


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2004 5:03 pm    Post subject: Re: The Sacred Fist: Revised! Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

That's about what I figured.

How/what changes do you recommend to have a fighting scheme equal to that of a monk's unarmed strike, on the grounds that you're giving up your holy sword or mace of disruption? And I figured that this could stand to lose a huge amount of defensive abilities and fewer caster levels.

I just want to hit things with my fists without it being an ass combat mode, which it already is. I'm not interested in balancing it against a monk's unarmed strike, since it's already underpowered.
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FrankTrollman
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2004 5:37 pm    Post subject: Re: The Sacred Fist: Revised! Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I've been experimenting with the Monk - and found that letting him do a d8 at 2nd level and giving a Fighter BAB still wasn't enough damage by a long shot (since real fighters use masterwork martial weapons, which are better still).

I think that they need to have an essentially non-damage-dependent attack mode, for which I suggest Stunning Fist. Not the weak one in the PHB. No, save DC of 10 + 1/2 Hit Dice + Wis Modifier, on every single unarmed attack you ever make. I mean, you are still going to cry every time you meet an Erinyes or Spectre - but at least this way you'll be of some use against living enemies.

I also suggest that you continue in Undead Turning. After all, if you fall more than two levels behind the Turn Undead curve you might as well scratch it off your character sheet (and thus, any class that "does not advance" Undead Turning is actually removing your Turn Undead ability). And, of course, many of these incorporeal creatures which will break you like a twig are also Undead.

-Frank
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Lago_AM3P
Duke


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2004 9:21 pm    Post subject: Re: The Sacred Fist: Revised! Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

What about methods that are little more than a straight improvement on the die damage/critical scheme that makes up for the fact that you're using a weapon that is worse to start out with and harder to improve than a sword?

Something like... a threat range of 19-20/x3, or half your wisdom modifier to attack and damage, or something like the arcane strike feat, or ability to spend the soon-useless turning attempts into a manipulation to damage, or SOMETHING.

I'm rather curious to why the game designers think that fighting unarmed and non-polymorphed should be a strictly worse method of fighting (in terms of attack, damage, special attack modes, upgrading, adapting to different foes, etc.) than with a real weapon. Even monks fight significantly better with a real weapon than unarmed.
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FrankTrollman
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2004 11:45 pm    Post subject: Re: The Sacred Fist: Revised! Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

It's because improving unarmed damage looks big. When you say "improve damage die three times and double threat range" that sounds huge. And indeed, if you were applying that to any kind of real weapon - it would be.

But the weapon you are starting with starts out at a d3 with a nat 20 to threat - so after you improve it three times it's still just a d8. When you double its threat range you are looking at a d8 at 19-20 - which is the standard martial weapon that first level Fighters begin play with.

So all of those abilities (which by some reckonings would be about 4 feats worth) - and you still haven't come up with something that is quite as good as "one martial weapon proficiency". Which means that people start having strokes about how "overpowered" the class is before you've even achieved parity.

And it's very difficult to layer power of any kind on an unarmed character. Not impossible, just difficult. Certainly, that Fighter is going to have a masterwork longsword before he hits second level - and you can't masterwork your fists... um... ever. That puts the Fighter up a bit. However, the Fighter is eventually going to invest in a magic sword, and the Monk is eventually going to get an Amulet of Mighty Fists - which is just like a magic sword only it costs more and isn't as good (requiring, as it does, that you use both your fists and an amulet slot, instead of just a fist like the magic sword does). However, the flip side is that if for some reason it was advantageous (or even neutral) to punch people instead of hitting them with a sword - punching people would instantaneously be overpowered, as swords have to be drawn and everything, can be disarmed and sundered, and all the while fists don't and can't.

So what does this all mean? It means that punching people is never ever going to be as good as hitting people with a sword. At least, in terms of to-hit bonuses and damage outputs, it's always going to be lower or it would break the game. But as long as it is lower, as you've doubtless noticed, the game is pretty much broken the other way.

I don't think that giving fists a series of flat bonuses - especially stackable bonuses calculated in a different manner from normal bonuses - is a good idea. After all, if you are adding Wisdom to one pile, and a straight level dependent bonus (like sword enhancement) to the other pile - the first pile is sometimes going to be larger than the second sometimes, and as we've already established, if that happens for even a moment the game breaks.

I suggest instead handing out conditions with your blows. After all, stunning an enemy is valuable regardless of how much or little damage you inflict. Paralyzing an opponent sets up a killing strike in a way completely different from the manner in which a raging berserker wallops people for hundreds of damage per turn.

-Frank
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Desdan_Mervolam
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Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 987

PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2004 12:39 am    Post subject: Re: The Sacred Fist: Revised! Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Hello, I was directed to these boards on a different thread and I'm looking around a little.

Now, I get the idea that Monks and other unarmed combatants have this problem affecting things that cannot be affected by normal weapons. If you're homebrewing a new replacement for (insert unarmed class here) couldn't you just add something to the effect of "Hands of the Golden Wind: The Monk may affect incoporeal creatures as if his hands had the Ghost Touch enchantment." Perhaps you could give the monk some sort of ability to emulate, either permanently or temporarily, the effects of a weapon enhancement so that you can MAKE yourself have +3 Holy fists if you are going to fight that Eyrines.

However, the simplest and most elegant solution is create a "weapon" that simply adds to unarmed damage, so that weapon enchantments on it simply transfer to the hands delivering them.

-Desdan Mervolam
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Lago_AM3P
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2004 1:46 am    Post subject: Re: The Sacred Fist: Revised! Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Okay, I tried to talk it over with my DM, and she basically said that the game isn't quite ready for a massive restructing of system mechanics but (get this) quite readily admitted that the PrC really didn't have a lot going for it other than being disgustingly effective in the defensive department.

For some reason, she thought that ki strike (ghost) which let you strike incorporeal and gaseous creatures were too much. But whatever. Paladin sacred fists get holy sword, cleric ones get greater magic weapon.

SACRED FIST
Hit Die: d8.

Requirements
Base Attack Bonus: +4
Skills: Knowledge (religion) 8 ranks, Tumble 4 ranks
Feats: Power Attack, Combat Reflexes, Improved Unarmed Strike
Spells: Ability to cast and prepare divine spells of 3rd level of higher, or be able to cast bless weapon.
Special: Must be able to turn or rebuke undead.
Class Skills
The sacred fist's class skills, (and the key ability for each skill) are Balance (Dex), Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Diplomacy (Cha), Heal (Wis), Hide (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge (religion or arcana) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Perform (Cha), Sense Motive (Wis), Spellcraft (Int), Search (Int), Spot (Wis), Tumble (Dex).
Skill Points at Each Level: 4 + Int modifier.


Table: The Sacred Fist
Level Base
Attack
Bonus Fort
Save Ref
Save Will
Save Special Spells per Day
1st +0 +2 +2 +0 Flurry of Blows, Unarmed Strike
2nd +1 +3 +3 +0 Evasion +1 level of existing class
3rd +2 +3 +3 +1 +1 level of existing class
4th +3 +4 +4 +1 Ki Strike (magic), Versatile Fist +1 level of existing class
5th +3 +4 +4 +1 Inner Harmony +1 level of existing class
6th +4 +5 +5 +2 Mysticism domain +1 level of existing class
7th +5 +5 +5 +2 Ki Strike (adamantine) +1 level of existing class
8th +6 +6 +6 +2 Greater Flurry +1 level of existing class
9th +6 +6 +6 +3 Ki Strike (force) +1 level of existing class
10th +7 +7 +7 +3 True Harmony +1 level of existing class

Code of Conduct: A member of a sacred fist order refuses to use any weapon, or any armor beyond medium armor (including shields). A sacred fist who knowingly uses a weapon loses all divine spells and sacred fist class features and advances no further in his sacred fist class until he undergoes an atonement.
Spells Per Day: At certain levels, the sacred fist gains additional levels in his divine spellcasting class. This only increases his spells per level, it doesnít affect other abilities of the divine spellcasting class (smite evil attacks, turning undead, etc.).
Flurry of Blows (Ex): The sacred fist gains a flurry of blows ability, similar to that of a monk. They can only use this ability when using unarmed attacks, and they gain an additional attack at their highest attack bonus. However, all their attacks that round have a -2 penalty to hit. This penalty drops to -1 at 3rd level, and is reduced to zero at 6th level. The sacred fist must use a full attack action to use this ability. At 8th level, the Sacred Fist gains an additional attack with flurry of blows. This flurry of blows does not stack with that of the monks, though possessing this class ability from another source allows the Sacred Fist to gain the improvement to Flurry of Blows 2 levels earlier in either class.
Unarmed Strike (Ex): A 1st-level sacred fist's unarmed attacks, if he does not already have the unarmed strike ability, changes drastically as he gains a deeper understanding of the martial arts he is supposed to command. A sacred fistís attacks may be with either fist interchangeably or even from elbows, knees, and feet. This means that a sacred fist may even make unarmed strikes with his hands full. There is no such thing as an off-hand attack for a sacred fist striking unarmed. A sacred fist may thus apply his full Strength bonus on damage rolls for all his unarmed strikes. Usually a sacred fistís unarmed strikes deal lethal damage, but he can choose to deal nonlethal damage instead with no penalty on his attack roll. He has the same choice to deal lethal or nonlethal damage while grappling. A sacred fistís unarmed strike is treated both as a manufactured weapon and a natural weapon for the purpose of spells and effects that enhance or improve either manufactured weapons or natural weapons.
A sacred fist also deals more damage with his unarmed strikes than a normal person would, as shown on Table: Sacred Fist Unarmed Damage. The unarmed damage does not change for sacred fists of small or large size, but change damage die like manufactured weapons for size increments beyond those.


Table: Sacred Fist Unarmed Damage
Level Damage Threat Matrix
1stĖ3rd 1d4 20x2
4thĖ6th 1d8 20x2
7thĖ9th 1d8 19-20x2
10th 1d10 19-20x3
Evasion (Ex): A sacred fist can dodge and avoid area attacks with great agility. When he makes a Reflex save for half damage against an attack, he actually takes no damage on a successful save.
Versatile Fist (Ex): Beginning at fourth level, the sacred fist may freely designate his unarmed strikes to deal bludgeoning, slashing, or piercing damage, even using multiple types between attacks.
Ki Strike (Su): Beginning at fourth level, the sacred fistís unarmed strikes are considered to be magic, for the purposes of penetrating damage reduction. Furthermore, at seventh level, the sacred fistís unarmed strikes are considered to be adamantine, for the purpose of ignoring object hardness as well as penetrating damage reduction.
Inner Harmony (Ex): At fifth level, the sacred fist begins to gain a deeper understanding of the mysteries of the world. He gains a bonus to his AC equal to his Wisdom bonus (if positive) that is always in effect, even if in situations that would normally cause the sacred fist to lose a Dex Bonus to AC, such as sleeping or grappling. This ability does not stack with the wisdom bonus from a monk's AC bonus class ability, but does with the bonus granted by levels.
Mysticism domain: The sacred fist gains access to the Mysticism domain at sixth level. This is treated as a prestige domain.
True Harmony (Ex): At 10th level, a sacred fistís harmony with himself protects him from external threats. He may, as a free action, invoke a +4 concentration bonus to AC, a +4 resistance bonus on all saves, and spell resistance equal to 10 + his character level, for a number of rounds per day equal to his sacred fist class level. These rounds need not be consecutive, and his Wisdom must be at least 13 in order to use this ability.
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Lago_AM3P
Duke


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 10, 2004 1:22 am    Post subject: Re: The Sacred Fist: Revised! Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

GODHAND
Hit Die: d8
In the wilder areas of the world, where monasteries and people devoted to discipline and self-perfection are few but the fist of the monk is needed, people have turned to a different sort of fighter for protection. The Godhand order were born out of friars and priests of Kor and Angoron who teamed together and searched for a fighting style to counter that of the Dran Juggernaut. Their best solution, rather than seek out discipline and harmony, was to counter might with might. To the Godhand, the most important element of martial arts is pure strength, as it was seen to be the only thing that could even hope to stand a chance in this world. But there was a limit to how strong they could become, and yet was not even close to the strength of the Dran; thus most practioners were destroyed faster than they could teach new students. After their school was broken by the death of their original masters, the clerics of other deities in the frontier took it on themselves to refine it. The emphasis on strength remained, yet other elements were added to assist the Godhand when mere physical power was not enough; the Godhands, having spread about the continent, continue to make a name for their art, heavily criticized by other monk orders for their lack of discipline and by clerical orders for their lack of piety.
The typical Godhand, though perfectly willing to claim that he is a martial artist, acts little like the stereotypical monk. Casual with their beliefs as to almost be impious, often engaging in routine earthly pleasures, and more than eager to show off their strength, the Godhands are nonetheless no less a legitimate order than any other. They are very willing to combat against more traditional monks and other worshippers of strength, such as the barbarian, though rarely seek them out with the exception of the Dran Juggernaut. Deities that promote strength and war boast the lion's share of Godhands, while a Godhand of a peaceful deity is almost unheard-of. Nonetheless, any Godhand who is willing to free their mind and spirit and embrace strength with the sponsorship of their deity may join. Divine spellcasters comprise almost the entirety of Godhands, though only a simple majority of them are clerics. A respectable number of rangers and druids have also embraced this art, as it was born in the realities of the frontier.
Requirements
Base Attack Bonus: +4
Skills: Concentration 8 ranks, Survival 4 ranks
Feats: Power Attack, Improved Unarmed Strike
Spells: Ability to cast and prepare divine spells of 3rd level of higher.
Alignment: Non-lawful.
Class Skills
The Godhand's class skills, (and the key ability for each skill) are Concentration (Con), Diplomacy (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (religion or arcana) (Int), Listen (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Spellcraft (Int), and Spot (Wis).
Skill Points at Each Level: 2 + Int modifier.

BAB: As Bard
Saves: Fort Good

Code of Conduct: A Godhand refuses to use any melee weapon, shields, or any armor except for light or medium armor. A Godhand who knowingly uses a melee weapon to strike a foe or a ranged weapon in a melee fashion loses all divine spells and Godhand class features and advances no further in his Godhand class until he undergoes an atonement.

Spells Per Day: Starting at second level, the Godhand gains additional levels in his divine spellcasting class. This only increases his spells per level, it doesnít affect other abilities of the divine spellcasting class (smite evil attacks, turning undead, etc.).

Flurry of Blows (Ex): The Godhand gains a flurry of blows ability, similar to that of a monk. They can only use this ability when using unarmed attacks, and they gain an additional attack at their highest attack bonus. However, all their attacks that round have a -2 penalty to hit. This penalty drops to -1 at 3rd level, and is reduced to zero at 5th level. The Godhand must use a full attack action to use this ability. At 8th level, the Godhand gains an additional attack with flurry of blows. This flurry of blows does not stack with that of the monk's, though possessing this class ability from another source allows the Godhand to gain the improvement to Flurry of Blows 2 levels earlier, or, if your flurry of blows ability is better from the monk levels, increases your monk level by two for the purpose of flurry of blows.

Unarmed Strike (Ex): A 1st-level Godhands unarmed attacks, if he does not already have the unarmed strike ability, changes drastically as he gains a deeper understanding of the martial arts he is supposed to command. A Godhand's attacks may be with either fist interchangeably or even from elbows, knees, and feet. This means that a Godhand may even make unarmed strikes with his hands full. There is no such thing as an off-hand attack for a Godhand striking unarmed. A Godhand may thus apply his full Strength bonus on damage rolls for all his unarmed strikes. Usually a Godhand's unarmed strikes deal lethal damage, but he can choose to deal nonlethal damage instead with no penalty on his attack roll. He has the same choice to deal lethal or nonlethal damage while grappling. A Godhand's unarmed strike is treated both as a manufactured weapon and a natural weapon for the purpose of spells and effects that enhance or improve either manufactured weapons or natural weapons.

A Godhand also deals more damage with his unarmed strikes than a normal person would, as shown on Table: Godhand Unarmed Damage. The unarmed damage changes damage die like manufactured weapons for size increments beyond those.

Table: Godhand Unarmed Damage
Level Damage Threat Matrix
1stĖ3rd 1d6 20x2
4thĖ6th 1d8 20x2
7thĖ9th 1d10 19-20x2
10th 1d12 19-20x3

Versatile Fist (Ex): Beginning at second level, the Godhand has integrated the improvisional attacks of brawling with his martial arts, such as piercing through chitin with a quick jab of a finger or slashing with a chop. He may freely designate his unarmed strikes to deal bludgeoning, slashing, or piercing damage. This ability does not apply to any natural weapon that cannot be applied with BAB. Even though the use of this ability is not an action, he cannot choose two types at once.

Full-Body Blow (Ex): As the successors of their art learned how to channel divine energy more effectively, the Godhand order became to know how to directly convert gifts of their deities into brute power. Beginning at 3rd level, the Godhand may, as a free action, sacrifice spell slots to deal extra damage with his unarmed strikes. For a number of rounds equal to half of the level of spell he sacrificed a slot in plus 2, his unarmed strikes deal an extra .5x his strength modifier to damage, and his unarmed strikes are treated as two-handed weapons for the purposes of feats and opposed rolls.

Time domain: One of the most important lessons the original Godhands learned from their successors was that strength alone could not win, but also speed and persistence. All true practioners eventually learn this and thus their art is tempered by adding another element to it: the element of time. The Godhand gains access to the Time domain at fourth level. This is treated as a regular domain. If the Godhand already has access to the time domain, then he gains no further benefit.

Improved Grab (Ex): To use this ability, Godhand must hit with an unarmed strike. The Godhand can then attempt to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity. The Godhand gains a +4 bonus to all grapple checks, though this ability does not stack with that from the Improved Grapple feat. A Godhand also takes no penalty for using unarmed strikes in a grapple and can even use his flurry of blows ability either with grapple checks or regular attacks, even switching between them.

Karmic Strike: At 7th level, a Godhand has attained a level of mastery that perfectly combines technique with power, able to attain some of his highest strength when standing his ground and trading attacks. He gains the benefits of the Karmic Strike feat, though cannot combine it with the Combat Reflexes feat.

Super Full-Body Blow (Ex): In a raw expression of might and skill, the Godhand hits opponents hard enough such that they are tossed back off of their feet. At 10th level, once per round whenever the Godhand hits with an unarmed strike, he make make a special bull-rush attempt (if able) as a free action to fling the enemy backwards. This does not draw an AoO, and the Godhand can elect to add his wisdom modifier to the opposed roll. If the attempt is successful, the enemy is moved as if bull-rushed, though the Godhand cannot move as well. If the opponent strikes an object before his movement is finished, the opponent deals damage to the object equal to the amount of damage he sustained from the unarmed strike; if this destroys the object, he continues moving until the end. This manuever does not hurt other creatures if the opponent moves into their square. If the opponent lands in a person's square or fails to destroy the object, he falls prone. This manuever is very taxing, however, and the Godhand takes a -2 penalty to attacks, weapon damage rolls, and AC until his next turn.
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Lago_AM3P
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PostPosted: Sun May 23, 2004 9:19 pm    Post subject: Re: The Sacred Fist: Revised! Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Complete frickin' overhaul. Yay. It still sucks compared to a real cleric, but I'm trying to get this on to a game where monks are considered the bee's kneees.
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FrankTrollman
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PostPosted: Sun May 23, 2004 9:55 pm    Post subject: Re: The Sacred Fist: Revised! Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Why not play a Druid with a hat of disguise?

You could do all the crazy melee damage with your fists that you want and noone would be able to see that you weren't some guy punching people so hard their heads flew off.

Plus, people with true seeing would know you were a bad ass automatically, because they'd see this:



Yes, if the people think the monk is awesome, they obviously won't allow you to get similar bonuses which are large enough to matter. They might, however, allow you radically non-similar bonuses which are big enough, which is therefore what you should be going for.

Besides, it would be all Wolf Rain and be totally bad ass.



-Frank
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Lago_AM3P
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PostPosted: Sun May 23, 2004 10:30 pm    Post subject: Re: The Sacred Fist: Revised! Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

As a side tangent, how damaging do you think it is to the game that the game brings bigger bonuses to the roleplayers who does something totally illogical or irrelevant to get the effect they want, then spend more bonuses or effects to disguise the effects in all of the relevant ways in the game world?

Someone who wants to play a wizard who wants to shoot crazy beams all of the time shouldn't have to, brokenness of two of these spells aside, shapechange into a beholder and then alter self themselves back into some bipedal abberation and then slap a disguise self on themselves to get the game effect, but that's what the game rewards.

WTF?
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FrankTrollman
Serious Badass


Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 27147

PostPosted: Sun May 23, 2004 11:28 pm    Post subject: Re: The Sacred Fist: Revised! Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

It is a form of fantasy. There are certain genres in which everyone who is a badass carries that stamped on their foreheads unless they take great pains to hide it. There are genres in which the true form of every powerful wizard is bursting out of the seems with tentacles and eyestalks all barely held in until viewed with lenses of true seeing or they are killed.

That's not damaging to the game, that's really cool.

But that's not what D&D is trying to simulate. The fact that you should necessarily gain tentacles if you want any real power is not, in and of itself, damaging to the game. What's damaging to the game is that this is an unintended side effect. The tentacles aren't presented as the cost of power. Mysteriously, the tentacles are protrayed as the power, with all the, you know, power all lumped in there as if it was a minor side effect of ability to wear tentacles on your head.

I would have absolutely no problem whatsoever if your true form just sort of shifted as you went up in level and thus every healer exploded into a unicorn or something on their death. That would be awesome.

But I do have a problem with the presentation of form shifting in the current form - where only some people have it and it turns off when you die. That's retarded. If you are going to get power from your shapeshifting might all the time you should necessarily get all your eyestalks in a big gross heap when you go.

-Frank
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