Annoying Game Questions You Want Answered

TiaC · Post by **TiaC** » Sun Mar 02, 2014 10:31 am

Ride-by attack is a charge, so you must move to the closest square that will allow an attack. Then, you must continue in a straight line. However, for many starting positions, this will leave you needing to move through your enemy. You can make the charge, you just can't keep going.

rasmuswagner · Post by **rasmuswagner** » Sun Mar 02, 2014 10:52 am

ishy wrote:Mounted combat has always been a mess, but which specific issue are you referring to?

The rider doesn't charge, the mount does. The horse has a reach of 5', so it stops adjacent to the target. The rider must attack "at the end of the charge". At the end of the charge, he's adjacent to the enemy while wielding a reach weapon.

ishy · Post by **ishy** » Sun Mar 02, 2014 11:17 am

Rider must only attack at the end of a charge if it wants the +2 attack bonus, attacking while the mount is still charging still gives you the lance damage bonus.

- edit:

TiaC wrote:Ride-by attack is a charge, so you must move to the closest square that will allow an attack. Then, you must continue in a straight line. However, for many starting positions, this will leave you needing to move through your enemy. You can make the charge, you just can't keep going.

Nah, problem with Ride-by attack is that you need to use the charge action while mounted and you can't do that, since your mount is charging.

Of course the mounted combat rules are bullshit and you should houserule them.
Same for the charge rules. For example, you can jump during a charge in 3.5 to avoid difficult terrain etc.
Yet if there is difficult terrain you can't charge, because you don't have a clear path.

Fuck that noise.

TiaC · Post by **TiaC** » Sun Mar 02, 2014 11:46 am

ishy wrote:
TiaC wrote:Ride-by attack is a charge, so you must move to the closest square that will allow an attack. Then, you must continue in a straight line. However, for many starting positions, this will leave you needing to move through your enemy. You can make the charge, you just can't keep going.
Nah, problem with Ride-by attack is that you need to use the charge action while mounted and you can't do that, since your mount is charging.

That is also a problem, but it does not invalidate the general uselessness caused by the first issue. I guess you just need to ride a creature at least 60' long. that way you can charge without running off your mount.

As to the problem of using a reach weapon, you can place yourself in any one of your mount's squares. If you just place yourself in the back, you'll be fine. (I don't think it's defined when you can do this, so I guess you could make it impossible for anyone without reach to hit you.)

Kaelik · Post by **Kaelik** » Sun Mar 02, 2014 7:14 pm

TiaC wrote:Ride-by attack is a charge, so you must move to the closest square that will allow an attack. Then, you must continue in a straight line. However, for many starting positions, this will leave you needing to move through your enemy. You can make the charge, you just can't keep going.

This problem, though a big deal is at least partially solvable:

------------------------->
____________x______

You have to be positioned exactly one square above/below/left/right of them to have an actual charge line that takes you past them, but it is at least theoretically possible.

TiaC · Post by **TiaC** » Sun Mar 02, 2014 8:07 pm

Yes, but the orientation of the grid should never affect how you play the game.

radthemad4 · Post by **radthemad4** » Fri Mar 07, 2014 3:32 pm

Would a multiclass Rogue and Tome Assassin be able to add sneak attack damage to every death attack? Is a multiclass Rogue and Tome Assassin a good idea? One of my players wanted to try one.

angelfromanotherpin · Post by **angelfromanotherpin** » Fri Mar 07, 2014 3:54 pm

radthemad4 wrote:Would a multiclass Rogue and Tome Assassin be able to add sneak attack damage to every death attack?

No. There's a lot of overlap, but death attack works at any range, while sneak attack has a 30-foot cutoff. Also, many targets are immune to sneak attack.

Is a multiclass Rogue and Tome Assassin a good idea? One of my players wanted to try one.

Not really. It'll kill the assassin's spellcasting, for one thing; and badly delay Full Death Attack. You'd be better off getting someone to design you a hybrid class (base or prestige).

radthemad4 · Post by **radthemad4** » Fri Mar 07, 2014 5:57 pm

Thanks. I'll see if I can convince him to pick one or the other. Hmm, perhaps Miryafa's or erik's Rogue will interest him more than the srd one. If he insists, I'll request a hybrid here, or give it a shot myself and post it here for evaluation.

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Fri Mar 07, 2014 6:14 pm

For a quick and dirty option, I would say take the core Assassin PrC, replace the casting with Tome Assassin 6 level casting, and the sneak attack with Tome Assassin death attack. And give it more reasonable prereqs (ie, take away the special).

radthemad4 · Post by **radthemad4** » Fri Mar 07, 2014 8:12 pm

So at level 6, he'd be Rogue 5, Assassin 1, with Sneak Attack 3d6, and Tome Death Attack 3d6 and level 6 casting which advances normally as per Tome Assassin? Maybe the option of either a +1d6 Death Attack every level and a +1d6 to Sneak Attack every 3 levels, or a +1d6 Sneak Attack every two levels and a +3d6 Death Attack for every four levels as advancement. The player wants to be able to use both.

Kaelik · Post by **Kaelik** » Fri Mar 07, 2014 8:46 pm

radthemad4 wrote:So at level 6, he'd be Rogue 5, Assassin 1, with Sneak Attack 3d6, and Tome Death Attack 3d6 and level 6 casting which advances normally as per Tome Assassin? Maybe the option of either a +1d6 Death Attack every level and a +1d6 to Sneak Attack every 3 levels, or a +1d6 Sneak Attack every two levels and a +3d6 Death Attack for every four levels as advancement. The player wants to be able to use both.

The player wants to be an idiot.

Either he is trying to get some absurd number of d6s that is greater than Assassin Death attack, which is broken, or he is going to end up sub optimally attacking without death attack which is broken.

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Sat Mar 08, 2014 1:13 am

radthemad4 wrote:So at level 6, he'd be Rogue 5, Assassin 1, with Sneak Attack 3d6, and Tome Death Attack 3d6 and level 6 casting which advances normally as per Tome Assassin? Maybe the option of either a +1d6 Death Attack every level and a +1d6 to Sneak Attack every 3 levels, or a +1d6 Sneak Attack every two levels and a +3d6 Death Attack for every four levels as advancement. The player wants to be able to use both.

...no. At level 6 he'd be Rog5/Asn1 with 3d6 SA and 3d6 DA when he spends time CHARGIN' HIS LASAR and cast Divination, Illusion and Necromancy spells from the Sor/Wiz list with spells/day as a bard1. Basically I'm proposing something like:

Scholarly Assassin
Assassin PrC ACF
Studied Death Attack: Gain Death Attack as a [tome assassin]. Lose Assassin PrC's Sneak Attack dice.
Greater Death Dealer Magic: Instead of the Assassin PrC's shitty spellcasting, the Scholarly Assassin spell list is all Divination, Illusion and Necromancy from the Sor/Wiz list. His spells per day and spells known are as a bard of his class level.

RobG · Post by **RobG** » Sat Mar 08, 2014 1:36 am

radthemad4 wrote:Would a multiclass Rogue and Tome Assassin be able to add sneak attack damage to every death attack? Is a multiclass Rogue and Tome Assassin a good idea? One of my players wanted to try one.

IMHO any Assassin PC is not a good idea. It normally ends up as two separate games: One normal and one where everyone else sits back and watches the assassin play.

You seem to be the DM. If you can avoid the two-game situation while still giving the assassin a good chance to use his abilities then more power to you sir. Good luck.

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Sat Mar 08, 2014 1:54 am

So, because I have two characters in my game who don't use manufactured weapons (Soulknife, Shapeshifter Druid), I wrote up an item/location that basically allows a character to have their non-manufactured stuff enchanted like an item. So a soulknife can enchant his mind blades with permanent magic abilities (allowing them to use their class features for other stuff), or a druid can make their shapeshift claws into +1 flaming claws, or whatever.

Basically it's just a bit of fluff, since the enchanting otherwise follows the normal rules. The only extra thing it does is allow you to take a magic item and shift the enchanting over to your inherent weapons and such. Yes, this includes taking a Rod of Extend Spell and putting the magic on your forearm bone, for all I care.

Does this need any really trade off? I wrote it up making the enchanting cost an extra 10% in magical reagents which doesn't affect time for enchanting, and a caveat that it may charge for "Unusual slot use," but is that really even necessary?

ubernoob · Post by **ubernoob** » Sat Mar 08, 2014 2:20 am

radthemad4 · Post by **radthemad4** » Sat Mar 08, 2014 6:59 am

Prak_Anima wrote:...no. At level 6 he'd be Rog5/Asn1 with 3d6 SA and 3d6 DA when he spends time CHARGIN' HIS LASAR and cast Divination, Illusion and Necromancy spells from the Sor/Wiz list with spells/day as a bard1. Basically I'm proposing something like:

Scholarly Assassin
Assassin PrC ACF
Studied Death Attack: Gain Death Attack as a [tome assassin]. Lose Assassin PrC's Sneak Attack dice.
Greater Death Dealer Magic: Instead of the Assassin PrC's shitty spellcasting, the Scholarly Assassin spell list is all Divination, Illusion and Necromancy from the Sor/Wiz list. His spells per day and spells known are as a bard of his class level.

That clears it up. Thanks.

RobG wrote:IMHO any Assassin PC is not a good idea. It normally ends up as two separate games: One normal and one where everyone else sits back and watches the assassin play.

You seem to be the DM. If you can avoid the two-game situation while still giving the assassin a good chance to use his abilities then more power to you sir. Good luck.

I'll encourage the assassin to instead sneak around roughly where the rest of the team is, launch death attacks and then go back to the shadows, but stay in the general vicinity of everyone else. Thanks.

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Sat Mar 08, 2014 7:02 am

Yeah, I've never really see the phenomenon RobG's talking about. I'm sure it happens, but in my experience, it's nowhere near prevalent.

ubernoob · Post by **ubernoob** » Sat Mar 08, 2014 7:10 am

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Sat Mar 08, 2014 7:13 am

All the more reason to use the Tome Assassin Death Attack feature instead

zugschef · Post by **zugschef** » Sun Mar 09, 2014 12:35 pm

So how does Shivering Touch actually harm a dragon? Even if the dragon was stupid enough to not cast Scintillating Scales, he doesn't care because a dexterity score of 0 merely causes paralyzation and dragons are immune to being paralyzed. So we're talking about a -5 dexterity modifier at worst and said dragon doesn't give a damn but instead eats the caster alive for being in melee touch range. Or am I missing some detail?

Koumei · Post by **Koumei** » Sun Mar 09, 2014 2:04 pm

That's just dumb. They're immune to paralysis effects, and having a Dexterity of zero "means that the character cannot move at all. He stands motionless, rigid, and helpless."

Show me where that says they're specifically suffering from the condition of "paralysis" and not just "can't take any actions"? Note also that a Dragon can be made Helpless (through non-paralytic means), can be Petrified, can be Pinned, and indeed will stop moving when it dies. Even though it's immune to paralysis.

Redshirt · Post by **Redshirt** » Sun Mar 09, 2014 2:27 pm

The "D&D without casters" thread has me wondering. Is there a good breakdown available of what saves, AC, DPS, ability bonuses etc. should look like by level once appropriate gear is factored in?

I'd like to give my players some inherent bonuses in place of the most boring gear. Getting a +1 to your natural armor from bathing in dragon blood is a more interesting one-time event than finding an amulet of natural armor, and the effect is basically the same--you write down the bonus on your sheet and then forget about it. It'd also let gear dependent classes especially spend more of their coin on interesting stuff and less on stuff that just barely keeps them relevant.

Dean · Post by **Dean** » Sun Mar 09, 2014 3:15 pm

No there isn't. When I went through the process of making my own rather extensive home rule set I charted out the mean, median, and mode of the skills, saves, AC, and attack bonuses of PC's and monsters across all 20 levels. The end result is that no, there isn't any center line and PC's abilities can get halfway off the RNG from level one and the monsters are made of arbitrarium.

If you wanted to create house rules to put people on a line then you should do the following.
* 1/2 BAB classes given 3/4th BAB.
* Everyone gets all good saves
* Max skills become equal to level not level+3
* No bonuses to AC, Attack scores, Saves, or Abilities from any magical equipment other than the listed standard enhancement bonuses from shields, weapons, and armor.

That's a condensed list, there's a little more art to it if you'd like me to write it out in full but if you want to be able to derive level appropriate estimates of characters knowing only their levels then those are the sorts of changes you have to institute. As things stands a character is just a pile of mumbo jumbo numbers thrown into a .....gumbo.

ishy · Post by **ishy** » Sun Mar 09, 2014 5:43 pm

Koumei wrote:That's just dumb. They're immune to paralysis effects, and having a Dexterity of zero "means that the character cannot move at all. He stands motionless, rigid, and helpless."

Show me where that says they're specifically suffering from the condition of "paralysis" and not just "can't take any actions"? Note also that a Dragon can be made Helpless (through non-paralytic means), can be Petrified, can be Pinned, and indeed will stop moving when it dies. Even though it's immune to paralysis.

A character with Dexterity 0 is paralyzed.
though here it says Dexterity 0 means that the character cannot move at all. He stands motionless, rigid, and helpless.