Pathfinder Is Still Bad

[Prak]

Yeah, I haven't looked into the actual third party publishing stuff on Paizo yet. Though if I recall correctly...yep, Frank said he has 9 extra ISBNs from when he bought 10 to publish After Sundown and offered to give them out. If Frank is still willing to hand out extra ISBNs, I'd gladly pub my first game book under Blackguard Press.

[Koumei]

Is the ISBN actually necessary for a PDF only book being sold exclusively through a website?

Can't you go to prison for not registering your for-sale pdf with an ISBN? Or am I thinking of murder as being the thing that you go to prison for? It's one of the two.

In seriousness, I just assumed it would be a requirement for them to let you sell it. If not, that makes life a lot easier and you can sell it for a dollar and then if five people buy it, that's a free coffee!

[Prak]

Yeah, I don't know if I can or not, I need to look into it. I'm trying to get the classes made, then I'll worry about the pdf.

Anyone able and willing to take a look at the stuff I'm looking at publishing and giving me their opinion of balance and such would be appreciated. Hell, I've got playtest credits and such to fill.

[Seerow]

Is the ISBN actually necessary for a PDF only book being sold exclusively through a website?

Can't you go to prison for not registering your for-sale pdf with an ISBN? Or am I thinking of murder as being the thing that you go to prison for? It's one of the two.

In seriousness, I just assumed it would be a requirement for them to let you sell it. If not, that makes life a lot easier and you can sell it for a dollar and then if five people buy it, that's a free coffee!

Yeah I don't know what the actual requirements are, but a quick google search seemed to indicate that ISBNs aren't a hard requirement for self-publishing, just recommended. (Note: Not a lawyer in any way shape or form and it was 2 minutes of googling. Nobody should base their business strategies off of this information.)

[virgil]

Depends on where you're selling it

[rasmuswagner]

Yeah, I don't know if I can or not, I need to look into it. I'm trying to get the classes made, then I'll worry about the pdf.

Anyone able and willing to take a look at the stuff I'm looking at publishing and giving me their opinion of balance and such would be appreciated. Hell, I've got playtest credits and such to fill.

Sure, I've got a pretty solid working grasp of PF; I'll be happy to give it a once-over.

[Prak]

I made a post in my material archive thread listing the material I'm putting in. Speedster isn't linked up not because it's just a post or two above it, but because it's far from complete.

I do need to find my hell spawn class...

[Starmaker]

If it is required then yeah, a $125.00 buy in for something half a dozen people might pay you a dollar for is pretty rough.

It's $250 for ten ISBNs.

[Prak]

Given that the plan is to sell to a captive audience through Paizo's own website, the lack of being in a giant database probably won't affect my chances much. Which isn't to say I don't need to be in it, but rather that I doubt people would be going through the giant database looking for a pdf of ten D&D classes based on comic books in the first place.

[Ferret]

There's tons of games where VoP is a worthwhile choice, largely in games where the GM is stingy with magical treasure. However, those are exactly the games where VoP will be laughed right out of the game as an allowed option, soooo....

I'll make my own thread on this if need be (aka it extends past this post, or yall can PM me), but why will it be laughed out of games? I believe I'll be working with a "3.5 is NOT unbalanced" crowd, so a Mr. T monk shouldn't be too over or under whelming.

Edit: Unless 3.5 monks have it even shittier than PF monks, which I find hard to believe.

In a game where the DM is explicity stingy with magical treasure, VoP (3.5 edition) says "Fuck treasure" and builds all of those bonuses into your character. You don't get to use items because you get a ton of bullshit bonuses to your stats, AC, etc. In a low magic campaign where the fighter is gagging for a +1 anything at level 7, you're Billy Badass with a +1 enhancement bonus to strike and damage, +4 Exalted bonus to AC, +1 deflection bonus to AC, +1 bonus on all saving throws, and +2 to a stat of your choice, you don't need to eat and you have 4 bonus Exalted feats (which means you have all the good ones already like Intuitive Attack and Touch of Golden Ice) all of which continue to improve as you level. Later on you get Mind Shield, damage reduction, energy resistance, and regeneration and true seeing.

When the rest of the party is reliant on a stingy DM to hand out their gear, thats pretty nice stuff - and exactly the sort of thing a "low magic" DM will say LOLNOPE too as soon as he looks at.

[talozin]

Actually, I'm pretty sure that, as a Maia, Gandalf is incapable of doing things that aren't in accord with destiny.

He's restrained from just plain pwning shit by two things:

• His body weakens him.
• He was told not to by his bosses in Valinor.

It depends on how far down the rabbit hole you want to go, I guess. From the literary perspective, Iluvatar tells us that nothing Melkor/Morgoth does is something he hasn't already planned, so you could certainly make the argument that he was destined to be a traitorous weasel and therefore so were Sauron and the Balrog and Saruman and all the other Maiar who went over to the dark side, so they didn't do anything that wasn't in accord with destiny and it's all part of God's ineffable plan. But I submit that "you do what MC decides you can do, you turn evil if MC decides you do, and fuck you" is not very interesting in terms of analyzing Gandalf as a PC.

[ishy]

In a game where the DM is explicity stingy with magical treasure, VoP (3.5 edition) says "Fuck treasure" and builds all of those bonuses into your character. You don't get to use items because you get a ton of bullshit bonuses to your stats, AC, etc. In a low magic campaign where the fighter is gagging for a +1 anything at level 7, you're Billy Badass with a +1 enhancement bonus to strike and damage, +4 Exalted bonus to AC, +1 deflection bonus to AC, +1 bonus on all saving throws, and +2 to a stat of your choice, you don't need to eat and you have 4 bonus Exalted feats (which means you have all the good ones already like Intuitive Attack and Touch of Golden Ice) all of which continue to improve as you level. Later on you get Mind Shield, damage reduction, energy resistance, and regeneration and true seeing.

When the rest of the party is reliant on a stingy DM to hand out their gear, thats pretty nice stuff - and exactly the sort of thing a "low magic" DM will say LOLNOPE too as soon as he looks at.

But luckily because all the bonusses VoP hands out can really break your game in half, there is a "save my game" article how to reduce the benefits!

[Lago PARANOIA]

If a DM is so stingy with treasure that they're implementing a player-screwing houserule to do so -- to the point of screwing you over if you die/retire and recreate -- then odds are they're not going to allow stuff from a crappy splatbook to let you circumvent it. That's almost, but not quite getting into 'but what if your DM lets you abuse artificer features?' territory.

[Prak]

So, in addition to working on my own (3.5) campaign, I have an opportunity to play a PF game. When I started talking about running, a friend invited me to play in his weekly PF game.

The problem (beyond being PF) is that it's Pathfinder Society. Organized play events suck, for a variety of reasons.

One of those reasons is that you will never be able to play an unorthodox character in an Organized Play event, and your character's motivations aren't likely to ever matter.

So since Lord Meow, cat sorcerer who wears a top hat, isn't an option* my next idea is to play a completely minmaxed character to get my jollies by tearing through all challenges with no effort.

The specs I've been given are "First level, no evil, only human, elf, dwarf, halfling, gnome, half elf, half orc, aasimar, tiefling or tengu characters."

What horribly powerful minmaxed character could I make?

*If someone knows a way that I can basically trick PFS into letting me play Lord Meow, I'm all ears.

[Lago PARANOIA]

Horrible min-maxing at level 1 doesn't really exist. Even in 3E D&D, really wide disparities between expert min-maxers and average players don't start to happen until level 8 or so. Even at level 8, a bard who was careful with their spell and skill selection doesn't feel too small in the pants compared to a cleric archer who used all of their feats and class features on bows and Divine Power: Quicken Spell. They're still a worse character in almost every way, but they're still within sight with a pity item.

All that said, it's still really hard to argue against the utility of a cleric. How many levels are you planning to gain? If you're only going to gain one or two, a cleric archer build who puts their primary score in DEX, rocks a 14 or 16 in WIS, then goes to town in the back rank with a bow is hard to argue against. Doing 2x 1d8+2 damage every round from a safe spot while backing that ass up with several 1d6 group healings is hard to argue against. If you pick up a really good 1st level domain too, like Charm, you'll be sitting pretty for fights. Be warned that the utility of Charm Person in Pathfinder varies depending on when your DM decides that the +5 save penalty is warranted.

[Maxus]

I don't know Pathfinder, but I assume they left some of the level 1 save-or-dies in place--Sleep, Color Spray, -something-. Even Silent Image could be something handy with enough practice.

[ishy]

I don't know much about PFS, but I've seen PFS dms arguing incredibly stupid things.

Say you are using two-weapon fighting to kill people with 2 daggers.
Then you grab vestial arm, which grants you another arm, to hold a torch or something.

But because the multiweapon fighting feat states that it replaces two-weapon fighting for creatures with more than 2 arms and multiweapon fighting is in the bestiary (and bestiary feats are not allowed in PFS unless specifically called out in a class feature etc.), your character is now no longer legal for play.

So beware what you're getting yourself into.

[TiaC]

Heavens oracle can win every encounter from level 2, half-orc Scarred witch doctor is very survivable, sorcerers can get ridiculous save DCs.

[Blasted]

Why can't you play a sorcerer catfolk? They're in the race guide. I've played significantly stranger things in PFS games. According to the PFS rules, they're quite legal, on the same tier as assimar or tengu.

[Wiseman]

There are some variant traits for aasimar and tieflings in the sourcebooks
Blood of Angels/Blood of Fiends that replace your daylight or darkness spell-like ability. I don't know if these would be allowed but here are some highlights.

You possess taloned fingers that act as natural
weapons and deal 1d4 points of damage.

You gain an additional +2 racial bonus to your
Strength score. (and others for other stats).

You gain a +1 racial bonus on Reflex saves. (or other saves)

You can cast augury once per day as a spell-like ability.

You gain a +1 racial bonus on attack and damage rolls
against evil outsiders.

You gain spell resistance equal to 10 + 1/2 your Hit Dice.

If your body is placed on consecrated ground and
prayers to your deity are recited continuously for 24
hours, you return to life as if by a raise dead spell. This
ability works 1d4 times in your lifetime.

Once per day as a move action, you can make a melee
weapon you are wielding holy. The enchantment lasts
for 3 rounds or until you drop or give away your weapon.

You gain a +2 racial bonus on Use Magic Device checks

You have a natural fly speed of 20 feet (poor). (!!!)

You can animate a 1 HD skeleton, as per animate
dead, once per day as a spell-like ability.

You possess some type of extrasensory organ,
granting you all-around vision.

You gain an additional +2 racial bonus to your
Charisma score. (or any other stat).

You possess claws that are treated as natural
weapons and deal 1d4 points of damage.

You gain a Swim speed of 30 feet.

You possess fiendish luck. Once per day, you can
reroll one die roll. You must take the result of this
second roll.

Your body produces intense, searing heat. Any
creature that grapples you takes 1d4 points of fire
damage per round.

You are healed by both positive and negative
channeled energy. (just channeled?)

You possess the scent special ability.

You gain a +1 bonus on all Will saving throws. (other versions boost other saves).

Your eyes glow fiendishly and you possess the see in
darkness ability as if you were a devil.

You can use minor image three times per day as a
spell-like ability. (!!!)

You can see creatures on the Ethereal Plane.

Once per day, you may ask a corpse one yes-or-no
question, as per the spell speak with dead. This is a
spell-like ability.

You receive +1 bonus hit point per level

You do not lose consciousness until you are reduced
to –5 hit points. (not sure on this one?)

At will, you can spend a full-round action
concentrating to receive the benefits of tremorsense
60 feet for 1 round.

You possess spell resistance equal to 10 + 1/2 your
Hit Dice.

The spell animate dead can return you to life as per
the spell raise dead 1d4 times.

[Krusk]

I did the scarred witch doctor thing for a level 1 pf game. It wasn't society, but the Dm was very typical of pathfinder. He freaked when I was the tank for the group because I had the most hp and did the most damage in melee. Also could cast spells. Almost banned me after fight 1 when I started the encounter with a charge into battle and didn't die. He did the "I must see character sheets" thing before the game but apparently only looked at class and race before just guessing concepts. Kept asking why I spent all my starting money on a big sword. (Cause it's badass that's why)

It's a really solid build for levels 1-3 (and after that is a wizard so do whatever you want.) and a fun change of pace. It also really throws pf players who refuse to admit low level casters still rock. You get lots of "dude you are gonna die any second" comments while carrying the party through fights. If you like being under estimated or blowing pf players minds this is the way to go.

[OgreBattle]

Folks are now discussing that Druids got nerfed in Pathfinder and that shapeshifting is underwhelming. I don't know what the difference is to 3.5 though.

[hogarth]

So, in addition to working on my own (3.5) campaign, I have an opportunity to play a PF game. When I started talking about running, a friend invited me to play in his weekly PF game.

The problem (beyond being PF) is that it's Pathfinder Society. Organized play events suck, for a variety of reasons.

One of those reasons is that you will never be able to play an unorthodox character in an Organized Play event, and your character's motivations aren't likely to ever matter.

My experience with Pathfinder Society is that "unorthodox" characters are actually quite common, on the grounds that weird shit would get kicked out of a normal game but the GM is powerless to use Rule Zero in a PFS game.

What horribly powerful minmaxed character could I make?

Does your friend play with the same party of players every week? Or is it just whatever random mopes show up at the local game store?

In the latter case, you might want to focus on a self-reliant PC (e.g. one who can deal damage + cure himself of various conditions + make the skill checks which are mandatory in PFS). In the former case, tell us what is missing from the party and we can probably come up with something.

Popular concepts I've seen include:
* Pet classes like the Summoner
* Ranged experts like the Zen Archer
* Skilled casters like the Archeologist Bard

By the way, note that you're supposed to have access to physical copies of the books you use (or legal PDFs, at the very least), although I don't know if your buddy would be a tight-ass about that or not. "I printed it off the internet" is not acceptable.

[A Man In Black]

Folks are now discussing that Druids got nerfed in Pathfinder and that shapeshifting is underwhelming. I don't know what the difference is to 3.5 though.

Polymorph got revamped in PF, and is now much weaker. I don't actually recall how it works now, though, because, man, fuck Polymorph. I do remember you don't inherit shit.

Mostly as a PF druid you wildshape into an elemental and then just roleplay Thing. Get a staff, use Shillelagh on it, if you want to melee.

[Prak]

Why can't you play a sorcerer catfolk? They're in the race guide. I've played significantly stranger things in PFS games. According to the PFS rules, they're quite legal, on the same tier as assimar or tengu.

That's really not quite what I had in mind....


If someone can tell me how to do a "there is no mechanical distinction between whether you're playing the familiar or the wizard" build, that would be satisfactory too.

I'll look into these other things (leaning to Cleric Archer or Heavens Oracle), might play a tiefling something. Scarred Witch Doctor is a thing I've heard about and sounds entertaining if nothing else.