The Shadowrun Situation

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Thu Jul 18, 2013 11:02 am

"normal weight" for an overweight person could still be something that society would consider to be overweight. One of the factors in weight is genetics. It's highly unlikely, even if I went on a crash diet and started exercising several hours every day, that I'd ever be thin. I have a stocky build, I have more weight than I should, but I'll always look at least vaguely barrel-like.

Pulsewidth · Post by **Pulsewidth** » Thu Jul 18, 2013 11:13 am

Genetics is hugely important, but with the exception of a few rare (and often treatable) mutations, it only changes susceptibility to a fattening environment. This is how obesity can be almost entirely genetic, or almost entirely environmental, depending on how you define things.

If you're genetically susceptible to obesity, it's possible that the only way to maintain normal fat levels is by completely rejecting all of modern food culture. That's going to have major social implications, and very few people are willing to do it.

Seerow · Post by **Seerow** » Thu Jul 18, 2013 11:31 am

Prak_Anima wrote:"normal weight" for an overweight person could still be something that society would consider to be overweight. One of the factors in weight is genetics. It's highly unlikely, even if I went on a crash diet and started exercising several hours every day, that I'd ever be thin. I have a stocky build, I have more weight than I should, but I'll always look at least vaguely barrel-like.

On the other extreme is the people who are rail thin without any work at all, who eat significantly worse than the average fat person. I find these people are the ones who tend to be the most hostile towards fat people. eg "It's easy for me to stay thin, how unhealthy must these slobs be?!"

OgreBattle · Post by **OgreBattle** » Thu Jul 18, 2013 11:54 am

I like Riddle of Steel's rules for obesity, it's an encumberance penalty you always have on.

Does Shadowrun have any rules for weight related handicaps?

sabs · Post by **sabs** » Thu Jul 18, 2013 12:05 pm

Holy Derail batman. I feel like I'm in Quebec, watching a giant fireball burn up the town square.

No, Shadowrun does not have weight related handicaps. Hell, they don't even really have encumbrance.

Ancient History · Post by **Ancient History** » Thu Jul 18, 2013 12:12 pm

Well, they did. But no one actually bothered with it. There was a thing where characters with a higher Body scored weighed more too, in one of the older editions. That might have had some swimming modifiers, I'd have to check.

Stahlseele · Post by **Stahlseele** » Thu Jul 18, 2013 12:40 pm

Yeah, there were swimming mods for high bod/weight.
Bonelacing added weight to a character too.
SR3 had encumbrance rules for weight stuff and armor points.
SR4 did away with weights completely and instead only had encumbrance for armor points.

DSMatticus · Post by **DSMatticus** » Thu Jul 18, 2013 2:52 pm

Maxus wrote:But not, directly, the people who believe in them.

Unless they're stupid and advocate bad things

I would argue that endorsing a religious text which states homosexuals are evil is morally abhorrent, and a non-trivial impediment to civil rights. Doing anything with a bible other than using it to wipe your ass is pretty shady. It's just a kind of shady society accepts - like shooting black teenagers.

fectin · Post by **fectin** » Thu Jul 18, 2013 2:59 pm

DSMatticus wrote:
Maxus wrote:But not, directly, the people who believe in them.

Unless they're stupid and advocate bad things
I would argue that endorsing a religious text which states homosexuals are evil is morally abhorrent, and a non-trivial impediment to civil rights. Doing anything with a bible other than using it to wipe your ass is pretty shady. It's just a kind of shady society accepts - like shooting black teenagers.

Take your ignorant bigotry back to IMHO.

Rawbeard · Post by **Rawbeard** » Thu Jul 18, 2013 3:20 pm

Pulsewidth wrote:There's one important difference - unlike sex, race and sexual orientation, body fat is at least theoretically changeable.

Actually sex and race can be changed. And even your sexual orientation, if you believe crazy pants religious peoples.

Stahlseele · Post by **Stahlseele** » Thu Jul 18, 2013 3:20 pm

fectin wrote:
DSMatticus wrote:
Maxus wrote:But not, directly, the people who believe in them.

Unless they're stupid and advocate bad things
I would argue that endorsing a religious text which states homosexuals are evil is morally abhorrent, and a non-trivial impediment to civil rights. Doing anything with a bible other than using it to wipe your ass is pretty shady. It's just a kind of shady society accepts - like shooting black teenagers.
Take your ignorant bigotry back to IMHO.

i am screenshotting this . .

Maxus · Post by **Maxus** » Thu Jul 18, 2013 3:44 pm

Religion off-topic in reply to DSM:

There's religious and then there's religious.

I know folks on both sides of line: My boss's boss goes to church, I understand, on Wednesdays and Sundays and preaches sometimes; she just doesn't care that one of my co-workers is gay, and when one of my other co-workers was developing a crack habit, she put in a lot of time with him to try to help him--like picking him up at his place to take him to work, because before he caught a ride with the guy who'd usually give him his hit.

Every time there's a death in an employee's family, she guilts the work crew into putting some money into an envelope so she can get some easy-to-eat food that'll keep well for the family, so they don't have to worry about cooking, and gives the leftover cash to the folks so they have some money to help with any unforeseen expenses. She does it because she thinks that's the sort of treatment her religion demands she gives, so I'd call that religious.

On the other hand, I've sat on the bus and listened to people ramble about how "I don't know how homosexuals think they're gonna get into heaven" and "We've done gone from the Bible's way. I don't tolerate none of that. I believe in faith healing, not any of those guv'ment doctors". And that's religious, too.

I've noticed that, one way or the other, Christians don't try to reconcile the Bible as a whole. And if they go around trying to make the world a better place through acts of tolerance and kindness because they think that's what Jesus would want, then I just don't care about it. And don't make an issue of them not mentioning the ever-egotistic acts of God in the Old Testament, or the insane Law of Moses.

Pulsewidth · Post by **Pulsewidth** » Thu Jul 18, 2013 4:16 pm

Rawbeard wrote: Actually sex and race can be changed. And even your sexual orientation, if you believe crazy pants religious peoples.

Gender can be changed, but sex cannot. Race cannot be changed by any reasonable definition of "race".

Otakusensei · Post by **Otakusensei** » Thu Jul 18, 2013 4:32 pm

I'm a fat, white, first-world, male Christian and I have no fucks to give for anyone who slanders or defends any aspect of me online.

Can we go back to hating on CGL now?

Kaelik · Post by **Kaelik** » Thu Jul 18, 2013 6:10 pm

Pulsewidth wrote:There's one important difference - unlike sex, race and sexual orientation, body fat is at least theoretically changeable.

Theoretically sure. But then again, so is being poor. Being fat is a lot like being poor. What you are to start of with has a lot more to do with who your parents are than your own choices, because it starts being decided in a very important way before you are even in control of your life, once you are there, it is a hell of a lot harder to get out because circumstances and habits drag you back in, and to get out takes committed effort every single day of your life forever.

So yeah, you can totally hate fat people because it is possible to change. But hey, are you a Republican? Because the same logic allows you to hate poor people.

sabs · Post by **sabs** » Thu Jul 18, 2013 6:18 pm

Do you remember when this thread was about hating CGL?

Pepperidge Farms Remembers

Stahlseele · Post by **Stahlseele** » Thu Jul 18, 2013 6:34 pm

Not really bashing CGL here, but of course, the first thing people are talking about is nerfing cyberlimbs/limb-armor again . .
because of course, that can't be right with it all stacking!
totally OP 'n shit!
aside from it costing a BIG chunk of both Money and Essence <.<

sabs · Post by **sabs** » Thu Jul 18, 2013 6:47 pm

Can't have someone play robocop.. because.. reasons.

It costs money, essence, and your ability to sneak /anywhere/

Stahlseele · Post by **Stahlseele** » Thu Jul 18, 2013 6:52 pm

yeah, cyberware-scanners are a big problem in SR4 . .
i don't have heard any mentioning of them and RFID-Tags in SR5 as of yet, now that you mention it O.o

zugschef · Post by **zugschef** » Thu Jul 18, 2013 7:12 pm

There is only one human race. That is indisputable scientific fact since 1950. Talking about races in this context, namely humans, is by definition fuckin racist.

vagrant · Post by **vagrant** » Thu Jul 18, 2013 7:55 pm

I don't see why cyberware scanners are a big problem. It's just being security conscious. You go through a metal detector going into the fucking Smithsonian, and that's a fucking museum.

Or are you suggesting that despite the prevalence and existence of implants that can literally give you metal claws that pop out of your wrist and built-in guns, they shouldn't be wide-spread and practically everywhere civilised?

Heath Robinson · Post by **Heath Robinson** » Thu Jul 18, 2013 8:33 pm

Stahlseele wrote:yeah, cyberware-scanners are a big problem in SR4 . .
i don't have heard any mentioning of them and RFID-Tags in SR5 as of yet, now that you mention it O.o

Son of Infinity Mirror uses RFIDs.

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Thu Jul 18, 2013 8:36 pm

Heath Robinson wrote:
Stahlseele wrote:yeah, cyberware-scanners are a big problem in SR4 . .
i don't have heard any mentioning of them and RFID-Tags in SR5 as of yet, now that you mention it O.o
Son of Infinity Mirror uses RFIDs.

Awesome.

They had learned nothing and forgotten nothing.

-Username17

Heath Robinson · Post by **Heath Robinson** » Thu Jul 18, 2013 8:46 pm

FrankTrollman wrote:
Heath Robinson wrote:
Stahlseele wrote:yeah, cyberware-scanners are a big problem in SR4 . .
i don't have heard any mentioning of them and RFID-Tags in SR5 as of yet, now that you mention it O.o
Son of Infinity Mirror uses RFIDs.
Awesome.

They had learned nothing and forgotten nothing.

-Username17

This is the edition where Drop Out is enshrined in the ruleset. You can take a Free Action to disable wireless access to all of your stuff.

Stahlseele · Post by **Stahlseele** » Fri Jul 19, 2013 10:47 am

hmm, seems like no more nanotech in SR5.