"Reducing your Saves" is not a penalty.

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Username17
Serious Badass
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Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

"Reducing your Saves" is not a penalty.

Post by Username17 »

When you take a prestige class which grants only one good save, you still probably get better saves than you would have had you continued taking levels in a single class which provides two good saves.

Consider a 6th level Cleric taking a level of a prestige class which grants only good Will. He's advancing slower in his Fortitude save, but he's got an additional 2 points of Willpower to throw around on the first level.

So his choice for this level is 7th level of Cleric (which provides jack shit), or 1st level in the PrC (which gives a +2 Will save).

The next level he would have gotten a +1 to Fort and Will, but now he's getting just a +1 to Will, so he's now only 1 point ahead in total saves.

But the next level he would have gotten a +1 to Reflex, but now he gets a +1 to Fort and Reflex, so he's in exactly the same place he would have been except he has 2 more points of will save.

At character level 10, he would have gotten a bonus to Fort and Will again, but he's stuck with just will, so he's back down to only being 1 point ahead total.

At character level 11 you don't get shit whatever you do.

At character level 12 you get a +1 to all saves regardless of class.

At character level 13 you get bupkiss again.

At character level 14 you fall one more point of Fort save behind, and are only now even steven on where you would have been without taking a PrC in terms of total saves.

But then at class level 9, you pull ahead with the PrC again when you get a bonus to Fort and Reflex and are now a total of 1 point down in Fort and 2 points up in Will.

And finally, when you complete the PrC, you would have gotten a bonus Fort Save, but now you don't and are thusly 2 points down in total on Fortitude and 2 points up un total on Willpower. In short, it comes out a wash.

So when you take a PrC which "reduces your saves", that's not worth anything, because you don't actually lose any saves. You just move saves around, except that for 8 levels out of the 10 level progression you are actually ahead to one degree or another. If you bail at any point down the line, "reducing your saves" actually makes you have better saves.

-Username17
RandomCasualty
Prince
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Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

Re: "Reducing your Saves" is not a penalty.

Post by RandomCasualty »

The save system in 3E is really screwy like that. It totally rewards people for multiclassing. If you MC into any class that has equal or better saves you make a huge benefit, and if the class has only one good save compared to your base class' two good saves, you're just moving around points as you said.

I don't really like how the saves are calculated now because it drastically encourages people to take 1 level dips.
Wrenfield
Master
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Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

Re: "Reducing your Saves" is not a penalty.

Post by Wrenfield »

This is especially true for spellcasters who could care less about BAB, but are happy taking a whole slew of PrC's, as long as their spellcasting progression stays contiguous.

Well, the same too goes for Fighter types who are looking to stay with contiguous +1 BAB/Level progression.

The problems occur for Monk, Rogue, Soulknife, and Martial Bard types who need "at least" a BAB of 15 to stay somewhat respectable.
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