Time to put down that barrel of cocks.

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Orion
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Post by Orion »

barrel of cocks isn't jargon, it's a shibboleth
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erik
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Post by erik »

Orion wrote:barrel of cocks isn't jargon, it's a shibboleth
Except about everybody older than my pre-schooler can immediately understand what "Go suck a barrel of cocks" means.

Perhaps you could try that phrase out on random strangers in public and delight in their confused expressions as they are unable to fathom what you could possibly mean by that.

I actually agree that 'barrel of cocks' isn't jargon since it is not obtuse or specialized. It is just "quantity_of_expletive" much like "ton of shit" or "freighter full of fucks."

I was presuming in all the grandeur of my presumptuousness that you were blanket objecting to any sort of pet names and phrases that we variably use such as Mister Cavern, tjanging spelling of fvcking words, DMF acronyms and so forth. Now you could certainly try and argue some of those things are not useful jargon and instead are shibboleths, except that we frequently do clarify terms for people who ask and there is no penalty for asking.

I never think less of those who ask for people to clarify terms. Hell, I have been posting with this crowd from WotC to Nifty to Den for about a decade... and I still get tripped up sometimes by some acronym uses (I keep forgetting VAH, and I don't even remember what others I forgot).
K
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Post by K »

erik wrote:
Orion wrote:It's the same thing. Developing their own secret languages is what makes it possible for them to motivate and rationalize their harassment campaigns. Dehumanization 101 is to drape yourself with arbitrary culturall markers of in-group status.
Ugh. Jargon is not a secret language. It is specialized language. Specialized terms are necessary for discussing specialized topics. It is not dehumanizing to use jargon.

Your argument as flavored with a dash of hyperbole:

If jargon, then Nazis!
I wonder if he thinks that plumbers also try to dehumanize others since they use specialized language in their craft? Actors? Journalists? Scientists? Baristas? Train hobbyists?

Literally every hobby and profession uses specialized language that is incomprehensible to others.

Every. Damned. One.
Last edited by K on Sat Sep 29, 2012 11:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Orion
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Post by Orion »

Well, I know that cops hate non-cops and engineers hate non-engineers, so I'd be willing to bet plumbers hate non-plumbers. There are valid reasons to invent and use jargon, but let's not pretend it doesn't inherently create a certain amount of alienation. Using specialized language has a cost, and you only do it because the gains in efficieny and clarity of communication are worth it. However, part of optimizing your dialogue is making sure you're not needlessly specializing language that could be generalized just as well.

All that aside, "barrel of cocks" wasn't invented to quickly convey an advanced technical concept. As Erik just said, anyone who sees it can figure out "what it means." Well, actually it means "I am a member of the TGD community" which an outsider would have no way of knowing. But it's not a phrase that points to a specialized concept, it's an arbitrary phrase chosen to express a basic concept so that it can also function as an ingroup/outgroup sorter.
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Post by K »

Orion wrote: But it's not a phrase that points to a specialized concept, it's an arbitrary phrase chosen to express a basic concept so that it can also function as an ingroup/outgroup sorter.
If it doesn't has a specialized meaning, then it can't act as a ingroup/outgroup sorter because both groups know exactly what it means and there is no outgroup.

So that's a basic logic failure on your part.

Also, I'm positive that plumbers don't hate non-plumbers. For that to be true, you've have to posit a universe where everyone hates everyone who doesn't share their profession and hobbies and that's simply not the case. For example, when I worked as a barista in college, none of these terms were ever used to dehumanize anyone.

Cops and engineers may be different, but they are also notoriously assholes. Hell, cops are just hated by everyone.
Last edited by K on Sun Sep 30, 2012 12:14 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by Starmaker »

One does not simply make terms for things. When you make a new word for something, the underlying message is that "something" is a cluster of individual "things" in Reality with more density than average. Use of the term implies nonzero correlation (and correlation means an increased probability of causation).

For example, VAH implies that mundane abilities with flashy animation that are ultimately instrumental to success are a "thing", they correlate, they are encountered together in one package more often, often enough to warrant a word.

And that can lead to fallacious reasoning, if people start thinking with their asses and go "what do you mean hair color and intelligence do not correlate? we even have a term for it, 'dumb blonde'. if it weren't true we wouldn't have had a term."

However - TGDMB is a fucking forum that is its own archive, where terms are routinely discussed and challenged, where terms were fucking invented so you can look up what they meant when they were invented, what reasoning people used when they outlined the density divergence and made a word for it. And there's no rule about thread necromancy so if you think someone was an idiot in 2005 and the discussion arrived to a wrong conclusion as a result, you can fucking bump the fucking thread.

Use of terms carries a risk of fallacious discussion - but that's the only way anything ever gets done. Discussion carries a risk of fallacious discussion. If you can't draw borders and make and validate hypotheses, you deny thinking as a worthwhile pursuit.

The barrel of cocks is not a term, it is an insult. It helps to provide an emotional discharge and highlight the absence of correlation between our sexual habits and the logic, or lack thereof, of our arguments.
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Avoraciopoctules
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Re: Time to put down that barrel of cocks.

Post by Avoraciopoctules »

Orion wrote:
I am as far as I know the originator of the "barrel of cocks" meme, or at least the one who popularized it on this board. (I seem to recall that image files were found suggesting the idea has devloped elsewhere independently) I remember why I said it and I stand by it in that context. I'll admit, as a writer I was initially gratified when my phrase seemed to catch on. But But over time my excitement has faded into indifference and then dread. Enough is enough, and it's time to put that barrel of cocks back on the shelf.

Like a lot of posters, I was surprised and pleased to discover the Den's lack of a profanity filter. I quickly embraced those new notes in my register. However, I didn't stay at the Den just out of the exhilration of cussing. I also stayed because of the community standards it implied. What I valued about the Den's freedom of discourse was our ability to communicate clearly, directly, and concisely about matters of controversial opinion. Sometimes swearing was the best way to establish that Fighters fucking suck, that Mearls' design credits are less finished than a 5-week abortion, and reading Apocalypse world made me literally ejaculate with joy and inspiration.

Today, that barrel of cocks that once surged with vigorous creative energy has become the withered center of a flaccid ritual. We have become the Sambia, proffering the barrel to newcomers for no purpose other than initiation into the mysteriess of the Den. The effort to stuff our posts full ever more elaborate obscenities has gone so far that I myself often find a long post difficult to take in; for newcomers, I have no doubt that it makes our actual ideas difficult to swallow.

We all hate on 4chan and Something Awful for their deliberate perpetuation of memes and phrases taht render them unintelligible to outsiders, and the resulting groupthink. It's time we recognized that Den is evolving into its own language, and ask ourselves honestly what functions that language serves.

Put the cock down, and step away from the barrel with your hands up.
Okay, I wasn't really gaining anything from using the term Mister Cavern. If you're worried about TGD becoming an insular circlejerk, I can certainly say GM instead.
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Post by Leress »

Orion, why bring this up now when we literally have tread that is about Den Speak? It would make more sense to bring it up there.
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Just a heads up... Your post is pregnant... When you miss that many periods it's just a given.
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Re: Time to put down that barrel of cocks.

Post by Whatever »

Avoraciopoctules wrote:Okay, I wasn't really gaining anything from using the term Mister Cavern. If you're worried about TGD becoming an insular circlejerk, I can certainly say GM instead.
I dunno, the MC abbreviation is actually a more generic one than GM. Most people associate the latter with cars, but the former with "Master of Ceremonies" (although they may just use "Emcee" as an actual word). That's a way better phrase to associate with the hobby than "Dungeon Master," for reasons that should be obvious.
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Re: Time to put down that barrel of cocks.

Post by Avoraciopoctules »

Whatever wrote:
Avoraciopoctules wrote:Okay, I wasn't really gaining anything from using the term Mister Cavern. If you're worried about TGD becoming an insular circlejerk, I can certainly say GM instead.
I dunno, the MC abbreviation is actually a more generic one than GM. Most people associate the latter with cars, but the former with "Master of Ceremonies" (although they may just use "Emcee" as an actual word). That's a way better phrase to associate with the hobby than "Dungeon Master," for reasons that should be obvious.
Huh. I hadn't made that association. Thanks for adding to my vocabulary, Whatever. That makes a pretty convincing case for me to hold onto MC specifically.
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Prak
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Post by Prak »

vaguely related to the topic at hand:
Image
Avoraciopoctules wrote:
Whatever wrote:
Avoraciopoctules wrote:Okay, I wasn't really gaining anything from using the term Mister Cavern. If you're worried about TGD becoming an insular circlejerk, I can certainly say GM instead.
I dunno, the MC abbreviation is actually a more generic one than GM. Most people associate the latter with cars, but the former with "Master of Ceremonies" (although they may just use "Emcee" as an actual word). That's a way better phrase to associate with the hobby than "Dungeon Master," for reasons that should be obvious.
Huh. I hadn't made that association. Thanks for adding to my vocabulary, Whatever. That makes a pretty convincing case for me to hold onto MC specifically.
That's actually the entire reason I like it, because it meant Master of Ceremonies way before Mister Cavern, and that is actually a decent description of the job of the GM/DM/ST/whatever.
Last edited by Prak on Sun Sep 30, 2012 11:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Wrathzog »

Mr. GC wrote:Hey you, duck boy. Suck a load of dicks.

You do realize we're deliberately being ironic right? You're not actually Stormbringer in disguise, right?
I assume nothing and I don't know who that is.
Also, please refer to my avatar by its proper name and titles.
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Orion
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Post by Orion »

Yeah, "Apocalypse World" actually uses MC in the rulebook.
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