Apparently Expiditious Retreat, Swift Is Broken

[Mistborn]

It's time for this thread again an optimizer tells horror stories of his group hating him for knowing the rules and having a character that didn't fail at life. Name have been withheld to protect the guilty

My previous gaming group had just broken up due to people moving away. One of the reaming members of my old group calls me and invites me to a game the being run out of the local game shop, he says the the DM and players are quote "real veterans". I decide hey I don't have a group so and I just got the Players Handbook II and I want to see what the Duskblade could do let's at least check it out.

And that's where my nightmare began.

So I Show up and he in his forties and so are two other players. My timing it seems is impeccable as a new campaign is about to start. At 1st level. I've had bad experience at 1st but this is the only game in town

The Players are
me- Playing a Human Duskblade and that has already got me in hot water with the GM
friend- Human Cleric- has been through several of my game so he at least knows what core options are traps
Grognard A- Gnome Illusionist- this is his first 3.5 game he's not a total idiot but hasn't realized blasting is sub-par in 3e occasionally contributes with illusions
Grognard B- Paladin- hates "minmaxers" with a burning passion thinks charop doesn’t translate into "real games"
DM- Alpha Grognard

[CapnTthePirateG]

So how's this continue? This sounds bad...

[Koumei]

Duskblade and that has already got me in hot water with the GM

That's quite understandable. Now the reasoning is almost guaranteed to be wrong. I'm sure his reason for hating it is "It has sharp stick stab AND wiggle wiggle flash? That are a broken!" Which is a joke (and prior to level 3 is a particularly bad joke as until then it's like playing a less good Fighter who is also a less good Sorcerer).

But in general, the more books you access, the harder it is to get accepted, regardless of balance. More books *seems* like more broken, and it's also more reading for the DM. So you'll probably have to get used to "choosing a non-core class" as being the first strike against you. Usually that first strike is okay though, it's just "But I won't let you use Spell Compendium or Complete Mage" or whatever, or they'll be more likely to give the cool things to other players for the first few adventures.

[Mistborn]

So the DM objects to me using point-buy. I groan inwardly as these hands of mine will never roll good stats, so as a pray unlimited lame works

my stats are Str 14 Dex 12 Con 13 Int 13 Wis 8 Cha 7 (equivalent 20 point buy) AC 14 HP 9 Human Duskblade 1 feats Power Attack, Improved Initiative spells Color Spray, Expeditious Retreat, Swift

The Paladin chortles about my op-fu not panning out in a real game. like all people who roll stats that I've played with he cheats his stats are Str 18 Dex 15 Con 18 Int 14 Wis 15 Cha 17 AC 17 His Feats are Two-weapon fighting and Two-weapon Defense

So it turns out we're fighting orcs. The cleric and I share a look of despair given last time we had played at level 1 the group wiped to 1st level orc barbarian. Apparently their and orc chieftain leading a band of orc raiders menacing the dirt farmers we're employed by. As we head into the orc infested foothills we encounter a pair of orcs I win Initiative and they both fail their will save vs color spray.

We then encounter 4 orcs scattered so I can't hit more than one with color spray the cleric wins initiative but can't reach the orcs with his 20ft speed in medium armor so he sets his spear vs charge I'm next I charge and orc with my Greatsword killing it. Paladins turn 20ft speed again. Orc charges me wiffing Orc charges the the Paladin wiffs Orc Charges the Cleric gets impaled. Wizard fails to rember how illusions work in 3e Rouge flanks the orc misses. Cleric I 5ft step back from the orc and it passes save vs color spray, the orc then reduces me to exactly 0 hp. The Palidin kills his orc After looking up the disabled condition in the phb the group is concerned since noone is but the rouge can reach me he rembers he has a shortbow but misses (I think he might have had bad stats too). The Paladin is alrady gloating. Me I'm in this zen-like state of calm since I have no attachment to this character. I fire of my last color spary and the orc fails its save, then I drop to negative one.

Some healing spells later I suggest we rest since I'm out of spells the Palidin seems vhemiently against any decision that would benefit me. The DM Lets the wizard swap his Silent images for color sprays.

Our 3rd encounter for the day is 3 orcs and an orc Druid with his wolf 1 orc goes down to the wizards color spray. I ready an action to greatsword anything that charges me. The rouge gets tripped by the druids wolf another orc goes down to the paladins charge Then the last orc charges the Palidin and confirms a crit bringing him down to -5 the orcs joy is short lived as he is impaled by the Cleric, the
rouge tries to stand up and gets AOOed into the negatives for his trouble. The druid burns off half the wizard hp with produce flame. The Wizard Color Sprays the wolf knocking it out and I charge the Druid hitting with my sword.

We decide to stabilize the druid and take him prisoner after tending to our wounded and with that ours session ends

[Kaelik]

The Paladin chortles about my op-fu not panning out in a real game. like all people who roll stats that I've played with he cheats his stats are Str 18 Dex 15 Con 18 Int 14 Wis 15 Cha 17

This times infinity. Fucking hate real roleplayers who hate dirty minmaxxers because they don't use PB, since it would always result in worse stats than the 18/18/18/17/18/18 they rolled.

[Endovior]

Yeah, really. If confronted with a situation in which I'm sitting at a table with a guy with nigh-perfect stats like that, and a DM who insists that I only get to roll once, and have to keep those stats whatever they are, that's a deal-breaker right there. That said, my DM's have generally either used point-buy or been excessively generous about the rolling system, so it's not come up... except in PbP, where it serves as a handy "don't game with this DM" flag.

[Mistborn]

The saddest thing thing about this campaign is that my character will end up being the most useful PC despite the worst stats.

The Paladin Did not Get the Memo about TWF being bad, so me and the cleric do the same damage off a charge

Also at level 1 Duskblade Casting is surprisingly good. They get Color Spray the same number of times per day as the Wizard (non-Grey Elf) it's all down hill from there but you have Color Spray and AC and HP the makes using it not suicidal.

[Mistborn]

So on to session two. Last we left our intrepid heroes the DM has realized 1st level characters are made of tissue-paper and failure. The Druid we captured points us the way to the cave where the orc cheiftan is doing some kind of shamanic ritual with his spirit (another Druid). We fight small bulshit orc encounters until we level. We clear out the orcs guarding the cave and head inside. Waiting inside is the Orc chief he's a barbarian with him is a druid and his wolf.
I remember my players wiping to an orc barbarian last time I was DM at 1st level so I want none of that noise. I use expiditious retreat to moonwalk over to the Druid. He's casting Summon Natures Ally so I interrupt him with a Krelgores Fire Bolt. he sics his wolf on me which gets color sprayed and burns off some of my hp with produce flame. I finish the Druid with a charge.

On the other side of the room the party almost wipes to the Barbarian due to him repeatedly passing his save vs color spray. He manages to bring the Paladin to -1 and cleaves the rouge down to -3 before the cleric is able to finish him off

Not Much to say about this session so far our superior Initiative mods have kept us from being mauled to badly. Both me and the Cleric have Improve Initiative. Still every other fight someone went into the negatives. Next post will be full of failure

[CatharzGodfoot]

I get the feeling that munchkins are justifiably afraid of min/maxers. Min/maxers usually understand the rules, which is antithetical to the munchkin.

Good luck with the game, though. It sounds like everything so far has turned out better than expected.

[Mistborn]

This session is the best it gets.

Im writing up the next part. It's bad, therpgsite.com forms are like a soothing balm in comparison.

[OgreBattle]

do they have children?

[Surgo]

Is this writeup coming or no? I want to read more rage.

[Mistborn]

Since someone wants more I'll try to get another part up this evening

do they have children?

no kids that I'm aware of.

[Mistborn]

Want rage Sugo well I got you covered my rage just hit the boiling point so here it is

Apparently Expeditious Retreat, Swift is broken: This time with more Expeditious Retreat

So last we left our band of social rejects we had just beat the orc chief, the rogue's player did not show up he probably decided to find another game. So the orc chief was wearing a chain shirt which I do not get. Instead it seems that the Paladin dislikes having a 20ft move. I quickly realize that making a fuss about it is only going to make the MC hate me more.

We return to the village as a reward for the quest we receive bonus xp which to the suprise of the MC causes us to level. We also get a +1 Longsword which goes to the Paladin, the rest of us get some money. as we select our feats the cleric and I learn that Leap Attack is banned in this campaign because the DM heard it was good. I attempt to take Improved Toughness but the DM bans it on the spot for being better than Toughness. After I realize that no Core feat is going to be a major upgrade for me at this point so I shudder and take Weapon focus (Greatsword).

With my money I buy a Masterwork Greatsword and It's time to get back on the road because the DM seems to have and actual plot prepared in the swamp on the other side of the mountains we just were in. Dark rumors about a necromancer death cult in a sunken temple.

Our first encounter on the road is goblins, Goblin Archers. They've would have cut the bridge over the ravine while we were trying to cross it but the Cleric spotted them. The ravine is 25ft across and 80ft down. I take cover behind a tree, the wizard casts I kid you not Magic Missile. It fails to kill anything. So as both sides trade ranged attacks I realize that I can totally jump the ravine if I cast Swift Expeditious Retreat. We probably are going win this encounter anyway but I'm back in zen “I care nothing about this character anyway” mode. I make the jump to the surprise of the rest of the group, and actually manage to hit a goblin archer with my lighting soaked blade. Both the Paladin and the DM give me looks of pure hatred as I roll my 5d6+3 damage and kill the goblin. I get shot at by all the remaining archers, all of them. Fortunately I don't die because of +4 ac vs ranged attacks for having the forethought to drop prone. After the goblins are I take 10 and blow another spell to rejoin the group and we fight wolves who are not immune to color spray before we turn in for the night.

Another day another random encounter A Hippogriff that fails its save vs wizards Color Spray

We find our way to the swamp and fight Lizardfolk who are not immune to Color Spray.

The DM seems to be looking forward to the next encounter.

We stumble on to an encampment of Lizardfolk with a surprise the lizards are undead and under the command of a Necromancer. I don't like this kind of suprise. ;_;

I have no intrest in wading into melee while the DM hates me. I back out of partial charge range and Cast Kelgores Fire bolt but don't kill the Necromancer. Wizard Casts Magic missile which also fails to kill the Necromancer, He casts Scare on me and the Paladin who is Immune and me who fails the save. The DM takes pleasure in stating my character pisses his pants as he runs away. The wizard finally kills the necromancer and the other players have a boring grind-fest with the Zombies. The Fear effect runs out before the Zombies are all dead so I do stab some of them.

We climb on to a rocky outcropping and spot our destination an old temple is stand partially sunken into the mire hovering over the temples central spire is an massive ball of crackling blackness. We're headed there next session.

[Maxus]

That's some good rage there. I look forward to the next installment, even if you don't.

[CapnTthePirateG]

Rage!

Also, "better than toughness" tells us everything we need to know.

[Mistborn]

Boring day, still have faith in your hobby or your fellow man. Or do you have an acquired taste for rage. Lord Mistborn's got ya coverd.

When we last left our band of deranged subhumans, we had just killed a Necromancer, my character is changing his pants. The party find a Ring of Protection +1 which goes to the wizard who has a better AC than my character.

As we march on to the doom fortress a withered lizardfolk aproaches us without weapons. He is apperentlly of the Mossscale tribe of lizardfolk their chief want's to speak with us. We arrive at the camp we see that all the lizard folk are sick. The chief and his druid explain to us that the ball of blackness is a portal to the negative energy plane.

The black sun as it is called blights the swamp with it's radiance the living sicken and die while the dead rise to hunt the living only those who worship it are spared. The leader of the necromancers is a Cleric who calls himself a “Priest of the Black Sun”. The lizardfolk might have had a chance against the cultist but on of the tribes sold out the others and renamed themselves the Deathscale tribe. The chief gives the Paladin a +1 Shortsword and begs him to end the black suns reign of terror.

If only the DM was as good at DMing as he is at fluff writing.

We leave and fight bad lizards one of them has class levels and I fail to hit him with my sword 3 time in a row. The Paladin spends some more time mocking me, while the DM takes pleasure adding descriptive of how much my character is failing.

At the gate of the fortress is a zombie hydra. The DM fudges like crazy to keep the Paladin alive. This encounter burns through all of our spells so we have to retreat for the day.

When we return the entrance is guarded by more Lizardfolk with class levels who are still fodder to Color Spray.

Inside there are more Lizard folk including one who is the boss he gives a boring monolog that the DM wont let me interrupt. The DM has given me a gift this encounter it's called raging lizardfolk barbarian, I don't really like this gift. Fortunately the cleric is a bro and hold persons it for me. The DM and the paladin spend a lot of time describing the “epic dual” between the Paladin and the boss lizard.

Next we fight some necromancers with more zombie lizardfolk. I stick with the Paladin and recive +4 on saves vs fear. The cleric remembers that he's a cleric an Turns undead, with their Zombies repelled the Necromancers are easily stabbed to death.

On to the last boss. The Black Sun Cleric is flanked by two troll skeletons, The cleric fails to turn them the first time. I receive another present from the DM Hold Person. The Paladin and Black sun guy get into another story wankfest while they fight and the troll's maul the cleric and the wizard getting ready for some serious closet troll action. Fortunately the cleric turns the trolls this time. I manage to break out of the Hold Person thankfully but that was a full round action. The wizard removes more of the clerics hp with scorching ray. The Cleric and Paladin finish the Black Sun guy.

Like always the game session end when the last encounter is defeated. Next session I'm sure there will be more loot for the paladin. The DM has aparentlly been weaving the Paladin more into the story I think that may be a bad sign

[Koumei]

Please tell me that at some point you suggested the Paladong player and the DM get a room and fuck in private.

[CapnTthePirateG]

Truly, the paladin is a real roleplayer! Go away you dirty munchkin!

[MGuy]

The zombie part is still not as bad as the GM banning improved toughness. That alone would've made me leave but to stay and go through the "paladin's" story would just put me over my limit. I guess I'm just not much of a masochist.

[Koumei]

banning improved toughness. That alone would've made me leave

I probably would have just started laughing. Maybe I'd keep it together enough to treat them as though they were intellectually challenged.

[Prak]

[Mistborn]

This one is was thing but the good news is that I left on a high note.

Apparently Expeditious Retreat, Swift is Broken: sadly lacking is Expeditious Retreat this session.

When last we left our band of human shaped shit piles we had just defeated a cleric. Treasure is divided The Cleric get's a +1 longspear, the Paladin gets +1 Fullplate off the Black Sun guy's corpse. The Wizard gets bracers of armor +1 of on of the dead necromancers, I got a rock. As he upgrads his armor the Paladin let's me have the Chain shirt.
I'm not sure if the DM is using the XP charts properly but we level again, hooray. My ability increase goes into Con. I think long and hard about what spell to take I end up taking Obscuring Mist, like ERS it's a pet spell of mine this time from all the conjurers I've played. As we go over the temple one more time the paladin finds a large orb of obsidian that serves as the generator for the black sun it's covered in plot important inscriptions, after another monolog the paladin smashes it making his sword a +1 holy longsword.

The DM takes this time to inform me that I've been striped of my Arcane Channeling ability, his argument is it's better than smite evil or sneak attack so it must be broken. The Paladin says I deserve it for being such a munchkin.

My anger hits it's boiling point. I say “Who exactly is the one whose has perfect stats and more magic items than the rest of the party combined.” He doesn't like that very much. “I don't begrudge you wanting to make your character good” I say “but badgering the DM for items and the spotlight is a bridge to far. The saddest thing is that the GM still has to fudge dice to keep your unoptimized ass alive, because even with rock bottom stats and my best class feature striped away my character is still better.”
Suddenly the game becomes a duel. The Paladin thinks that having twice as much strength bonus and hp makes this fight unwinable for me and I'm just doing it so I can die and reroll, but I have a plan I also know the math is on my side in this one.

The Paladin and I mach a few hours out of the swamp and face each other 10 ft apart. I win initiative and run away. the Paladin realizes that I run twice as fast as him and thus have total control of engagement distances. I cast Kelgore's Fire Bolt and he realizes I have a superior ranged weapon. As he shoots back with his longbow which isn't even composite. I burn through his pile of hp with KFBs. In a desperate attempt to outlast my spell slots he uses his lay on hands. He drops to the negatives after I've cast my 6th KFB. So my last fight of the campaign ends with me still having 17 hp. I then get up and walk out of the game store. Knowing my nerfed Duskblade just totally derailed their campaign .

[Endovior]

Good one. That was richly deserved; I hope you felt better afterwards.

[Korgan0]

Seriously, you went out of that clusterfuck on the highest note possible.