I was talking in general terms. This is why Pangea quit over Jotunheim's bullshit diplo and this blatant attempt to change the rules of the game midstream. 19 VP to win. That's the win condition. It's been that since the first fucking post.FrankTrollman wrote:You mean like declaring neutrality and making NAPs with all the major players when the end game wars had already begun?Zinegata wrote:A large part of late-game acrimony comes from having to work for 50+ turns, and then getting pissed off at other players doing something to ruin all of that - especially if that "something" doesn't actually win the game for those other players.
-Username17
In my case, I'm quitting this game because I've been bored of it. And it's also now completely pointless and I have no interest in continuing to watch a farce.
Marignon will win. It's academic. Stop pretending otherwise; and stop attaching stupid conditions like recognizing Jotunheim as the second placer when they have less VP than either R'yleh or Pangea. That's just bullshit.
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Moreover... C'Tis remained neutral in large part because we didn't want to be the one screwing up the game for the remaining major powers. C'Tis can't win, so why ruin someone else's chance of winning just to alleviate boredom?
I'd like to point out that if we really wanted to, we could have embargo'd Marignon. Pangea certainly asked. Instead, we traded more with Marignon than any other power; because they had what we needed.
Also, we could have also invaded that one Marignon VP province just outside of our border. But we didn't. Because again: It'd be unfair for Marignon to have to fight another enemy just so I have something more to do than to make one fucking clam a turn.
From my perspective C'Tis was out of the game: Our only real purpose was to prevent anyone from getting an easy two VP by fighting tooth and nail for our territory (but no one wanted to attack, so meh). Our secondary purpose was to stay the hell out of the way of the major powers and let them fight it out without our interferace - we weren't going to win the game by attacking anyone anyway, and all I'd be accomplishing by attacking is to engage in king-making.
In short, I deliberately limited my role precisely because I knew that it would be bad form to shit all over something somebody worked 50 turns for just to get some scripting practice.
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In comparison, if Jotunheim is as strong as you claim it is, then they should have absolutely no problem steam-rollering Man, and then they can join in the fracas with the Big 3 and have a decent chance of not being just second place, but being the only winner of this game.
But they're not playing to win. They're just playing to be second place (which again doesn't exist); and in doing so they are ensuring Marignon's win.
So any point in playing this game any further was lost altogether; as Marignon now has so much freedom of action that even the one scenario I've been preparing for (defending C'Tis from an invasion to deny someone else 2 VP for as long as possible - and the enemy could have been Pangea, R'yleh, or Marignon) simply isn't gonna happen.