A proposal for noncasters

[Jacob_Orlove]

Okay, to preface, this idea basically came from looking at the high-level abilities of the Scout class, and reflecting on how I will never actually get to play a Scout high enough level to get Freedom of Movement or Blindsight, which is kind of obnoxious. If I did ever get the chance to play such a character, I'd just lose to the opposition at that level.

So, here's what I propose: class features for noncaster classes accrue at double their normal rate. Rogues get sneak attack every level, Barbarians get Mighty Rage at level 10, Fighters get a feat every level (two at first level), Rangers master their combat style by level 6 (and have Hide in Plain Sight by level 8) etc.

In addition, they should probably get two levels worth of Base Attack too (so, Fighters/Rangers/etc go +2, +2, +2, +2, Rogues/Monks/whatever go +1, +2, +1, +2).

This isn't an actual fix for anybody (the fighter is still structurally unsound), but it'll boost noncasters a little bit at low levels, and conveniently end the game before things get completely unplayable.

Honestly, the DM will probably still have to hand out magic items like candy, but that's not any worse than the current system, so meh.

Thoughts?

[Voss]

What?

Honestly it just sounds like 'I want my goodies now, so here's a random change that doesn't take any possible consequences into account'.

Some of these become really wacky, btw. A rogue in particularly will be able to drop someone in one round with the same ease that he'd pick up breakfast. And yet... the changes don't actually protect most of these classes from the spells of the casters. Battlefield control, save or suck or Save: No spells will still make noncasters the personal meat puppets of the real heroes.

[Leress]

Increasing BAB doesn't really matter (they are already good at hitting things). Giving the fighter twice the feats doesn't help the fighter, it just quickens burn out and you still can't do most things that are level appropriate. Most of the non caster class don't need more of the crap they already get, they need better abilities.

[Jacob_Orlove]

If they were already good at hitting things, they would not need magic swords like whoa.

Rogues doing tons of damage is fine by me. If necessary, smart enemies can easily invest in scrolls of Darkness or whatever else they need to negate crits.

And yeah, the fighter in particular gets no real help from this proposal, but like I said, I'm not trying to fix things structurally here. If you want to fix the fighter, you need feats that actually matter, that are equivalent to "+1 level of spellcasting". At least this way, fighters start getting two attacks/round at level 3.

The big advantage of this system is that it lets you end the game at level 10 without feeling like you've lost out on anything.

[MrWaeseL]

My first thought was a sarcastic "Sweet, now an 11th level rogue will be able to deal 96d6 damage in a round", but upon further inspection that's not even very impressive.

[Judging__Eagle]

The full BaB classes get their 2nd attack at 3rd lvl; 3rd at 6th and 4th at 8th lvl.

That's interesting. Crazy, but interesting.

[Jacob_Orlove]

MrWaeseL: a caster can take out multiple enemies in a single round, starting from level 1. I have no problem with damage-focused characters getting to do the same.

Judging__Eagle: yeah, it actually corresponds pretty closely to the casters getting a new spell level, which I like.

Of note, though, is that I haven't tested this at all. It's just a (very) crazy idea.

[bitnine]

Well... If you're going to do this, why not just have "noncaster" levels cost half XP?

[Jacob_Orlove]

Because I don't want to give them extra saves, skills, or hit points? I know this looks a little bit like eggshells with hammers, but the idea isn't to allow them to fight higher level opposition, just to let them keep up with the casters a bit, and get cool abilities that make them feel like there's less of a gap.

[rapanui]

Well, it's a quick patch, and it's probably going to cause some problems here or there, but... yeah. It will keep the classes roughly even even at the mid levels. The game become rocket launcher tag more easily though... so think carefully about how you want to handle initiative.