Rogue Trader

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TheFlatline
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Post by TheFlatline »

Actually "fighting" the empire is going to be... difficult. They have more resources than you. Period.

Your best bet is to take over a system, replace the planetary governor, and continue with the imperial tithe. You are your own master beyond the tithe and nominal worship/fealty to the Emperor.

Actually saying "I'm withdrawing from the Imperium" is going to invite invasion, since that's how noble houses make their name and gather power. The way it generally works that way is that a warp storm cuts off the planet or system from the rest of the Imperium for a few hundred years, and when contact is reestablished nobody wants the Imperium to come back. And you still end up with a 200 year long invading force of Imperial Guard at that point anyway.
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Post by Krusk »

Obviously it will be super hard/impossible. I also fully expect the other players to "Oh no thats impossible" and the DM to basically say "seriously don't do that, you will die".

Thats why its a long reaching character goal. My actions simply have to lead me in that direction, success is unimportant.

Sort of like the fantasy RPG paladin whose end goal is "Destroy all evil ever". Obviously he probably can't actually do this, but he still strives towards it.

And at the bare minimum it should be like hitting a beehive with a stick. Something will happen, and it will have a solid obvious reason. (instead of the BS "Oh random thing happens to you, for no reason with no preparations stopping it" or "Oh random demon appears on your ship" plots we have been doing)
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Post by TheFlatline »

My message isn't "don't do it", moreso "be smart about it, because going straight at em is going to be a quick suicide".
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Post by Krusk »

Updated, after a session for anyone interested.

Our rogue trader player couldn't make it, and my PC is official second in command. Holy crap did we get stuff done.

Up until this point we 1- Defended some shithole ice planet we owned from space zombies, and 2- Put down a crazy sex cult on that same ice planet. 3- Bought some mining equipment. In like 5 sessions.

In tonights (shorter than average) session we... 1- Conquered some random feudal planet that apparently no one owned. Then showed them how to use mining equipment we bought and said "Now you are our mining planet". 2- Discovered a lost colony of Space Dwarves. 3-Took inventory of our planets owned and saw a gas giant on the list. Got the dwarves to start construction on cloud city. 4- Found an "Empire class" space ship hulk, which is apparently 12km long and the biggest ship in the game. Salvaged it and got it working. (Actually remembered about it from the intro to the game plot hook and decided to salvage it) 5- Discovered a forbidden world and are laying plans to go there. So we can fight dragons (Dragons was mostly the groups choice, and was in no way encouraged or brought up by the DM). 6- Established multiple trade routes, increasing our profit factor by 3.

We went from guys who dick around fighting zombies in a dungeon to guys who buy and sell planets on a whim.

Also, the new to RPGs guy's PC kept saying things like "And then we will set up our own empire" tonight. The DM and the disinterested GF both seemed shocked and shot it down immediately as crazy and "no you don't", but I plan to let him in on my long term goal.

New questions.
1- The GM seems to say that most of what we do is establish trade routes, and in fact this session we set 3 up. I thought trade routes didn't happen? He seems to think we own a fleet of trade vessels and set up Spore style trade between planets. Is he doing it different, or whats up?
2- The dwarves seemed rather agreeable, and like stand up guys. He also said their entire empire was eaten by tyrannids, and these guys aren't supposed to exist. 2A- How will they screw us? 2B- If they don't screw us, is this why the 40k guys decided to kill this race off. For not being "Super edgy and dark" enough.
Last edited by Krusk on Sat Feb 19, 2011 5:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Psychic Robot »

Space Dwarves
Squats. They don't exist, according to Games Workshop.
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Post by TheFlatline »

Psychic Robot wrote:
Space Dwarves
Squats. They don't exist, according to Games Workshop.
Squats *did* exist. Originally they were a sub-army of the Empire I believe, then spun off into their own army, then support was dropped and GW said they were eaten by the 'nids. Their remains were annexed by the Imperium.

But basically they're humans who grew up in high enough gravity environments for a few thousand years and bred to be... well... squat. I guess technically they're a sub group of a sub group of the Imperial Guard. So it's not totally out of the realm that you could find a small colony of them again.

Read about them here:

http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Squats
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Post by TheFlatline »

Krusk wrote: New questions.
1- The GM seems to say that most of what we do is establish trade routes, and in fact this session we set 3 up. I thought trade routes didn't happen? He seems to think we own a fleet of trade vessels and set up Spore style trade between planets. Is he doing it different, or whats up?
2- The dwarves seemed rather agreeable, and like stand up guys. He also said their entire empire was eaten by tyrannids, and these guys aren't supposed to exist. 2A- How will they screw us? 2B- If they don't screw us, is this why the 40k guys decided to kill this race off. For not being "Super edgy and dark" enough.
Erum... I'm sort of in conjecture land not owning Rogue Trader, but trade routes are only technically a problem if you're encroaching on another rogue trader's exclusive trade routes. Even then, it might be hundreds of years before the rogue trader returns to the planets you trade with and finds out you're fucking him. Then he has to track you down. So I'd say if the DM is rolling with it and you're having fun, bang on.

As for the squats, any chance they have to either kick orks in the teeth or rebuild their civilization they'll leap at. I'm sure they're willing to screw you if the percentages work out right, but if dealing square with them is significantly more beneficial than fucking you, they'll work with you. Until the percentages aren't in it for them.

GW ended up axing them because they just weren't unique enough to justify their own army list. Which is an astute admission. They aren't interesting enough to really devote the resources to.
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Post by PhoneLobster »

Call me crazy but if the GM really worships at the alter of GW and really is a screw you guys kinda GM...

... The Squats will screw you because they are REALLY Genestealers wearing Squat Skin Suits.

After all "everyone knows" Squats are extinct because they were dumb.

Test my theory by asking the GM how he feels about GW's extermination of the Squat faction out of game. Find out if he is one of those fucking annoying dwarven fan boys by asking him if he thinks Dwarves are cool or finding out if he has or had a Dwarf or Squat army.

If he is a Dwarf Fan boy or collected Squats then the only thing you have to fear from them is their fuck you guys wanky awesomeness.

If he thinks it was sensible of GW to erradicate a "silly" race in 40K... then THOSE AREN'T SQUATS GET THE HELL OUT OF THERE!!!

EDIT: Highly Unlikely third scenario : GM has, had, or wishes he had a Chaos Dwarf fantasy army. (find out by asking what he thinks about their neglect in the warhammer fantasy rules). If the "squats" have "funny hats", well...
Last edited by PhoneLobster on Sat Feb 19, 2011 9:48 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by Koumei »

I would *like* to think there's a fourth option: he thinks they were stupid, so wants to put them there just to exterminate them (either by having critters do it, then you have the option of killing the critters, or make them attack you so you gethave to genocide them).

Of course, if there are sq- aha, you're not tricking me into using that word and getting abducted and killed by GW!

If there are spess dorfs, then you might also need to look out for:
[*]The Chaos Gods other than the big four
[*]The Chaos Gods not being Flanderised into derpitude
[*]Half-Eldar-Half-Human (or 1/2 Eldar 1/2 SPESS MEHRIN) hybrids
[*]Monkeys that do not communicate but make incredible "fuck you" technology.
[*]Rat-people with warp-plasma weapons.

And any other ancient stuff I forgot, that GW elected to drop in recent years.
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Post by FatR »

Krusk wrote: 1- The GM seems to say that most of what we do is establish trade routes, and in fact this session we set 3 up. I thought trade routes didn't happen? He seems to think we own a fleet of trade vessels and set up Spore style trade between planets. Is he doing it different, or whats up?
Trade routes in general do happen. The Imperium cannot exist at all without them, its entire economy is based on planetary-scale specialization.

Now, trade routes are not supposed to exist where rogue traders operate, because the whole point of rogue traders is doing trade/piracy (whatever seems more profitable at the moment) beyond regions where the Imperium maintains regular presence. Of course, if, as you recon, now have more than one ship, you can still put one of them to shuttling goods between the planets you have trade agreements with. Normally a rogue trader has only one ship, though, and rarely observes any sort of regular schedule.
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Post by Ganbare Gincun »

TheFlatline wrote:Squats *did* exist. Originally they were a sub-army of the Empire I believe, then spun off into their own army, then support was dropped and GW said they were eaten by the 'nids. Their remains were annexed by the Imperium.

But basically they're humans who grew up in high enough gravity environments for a few thousand years and bred to be... well... squat. I guess technically they're a sub group of a sub group of the Imperial Guard. So it's not totally out of the realm that you could find a small colony of them again.

Read about them here:

http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Squats
The Squats seem like they might have been "replaced" by the Demiurg in the 40K universe.
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Post by Judging__Eagle »

Go go Demiurg rangers! You nid-fighting Demiurg Ranger-er-ers!

Also, keep an eye out if the Dorfs worship, or have, giant winged bulls, with or without giant babylonian-bearded manbeast-faces; or turn to stone/petrify after getting long enough in years; those are also Chaos Dorf signs.
Last edited by Judging__Eagle on Sat Feb 19, 2011 4:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by fectin »

Ganbare Gincun wrote:
TheFlatline wrote:Squats *did* exist. Originally they were a sub-army of the Empire I believe, then spun off into their own army, then support was dropped and GW said they were eaten by the 'nids. Their remains were annexed by the Imperium.

But basically they're humans who grew up in high enough gravity environments for a few thousand years and bred to be... well... squat. I guess technically they're a sub group of a sub group of the Imperial Guard. So it's not totally out of the realm that you could find a small colony of them again.

Read about them here:

http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Squats
The Squats seem like they might have been "replaced" by the Demiurg in the 40K universe.
Wikipedia agrees.

Also, wikipedia thinks that Squats haven't been entirely expunged, they just aren't supported as a faction anymore, and there are no Squat models. That makes it somewhat more likely that there is no ulterior motive behind the ones Krusk encountered (sometimes a cigar is just a cigar...).
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Post by Spike »

FatR wrote: Trade routes in general do happen. The Imperium cannot exist at all without them, its entire economy is based on planetary-scale specialization.

Now, trade routes are not supposed to exist where rogue traders operate, because the whole point of rogue traders is doing trade/piracy (whatever seems more profitable at the moment) beyond regions where the Imperium maintains regular presence. Of course, if, as you recon, now have more than one ship, you can still put one of them to shuttling goods between the planets you have trade agreements with. Normally a rogue trader has only one ship, though, and rarely observes any sort of regular schedule.
Actually, RT's can have entire fleets of ships. Most of the 'trade' ships are comparatively cheap and, from an adventuring standpoint, useless bulk cargo carriers... and not much is stopping a RT group from slowly buying up a few dozen of those to run 'trade routes' in the background while the 'main guy' goes out and conquers new worlds and pacifies new systems.

That's sort of the point, actually: Its not enough to just go where there aren't already settled systems and existing trade routes... you have to MAKE settled systems and develop trade routes as part of your raison d'etre!

Remember: With a high enough PF you can buy ships with a reasonable chance of success on a regular basis.
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Post by Krusk »

Last post. Fuck Eldar. We found them, and the GM wank was unbelievable.

Also the RT came back and mentioned chaos dwarves. The GM remembered he loved chaos dwarves.
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Post by RiotGearEpsilon »

Eldar are obnoxious pricks as a whole, so if you came out of that encounter thinking, "Jesus, these guys are so fucking full of themselves I'm amazed they can keep food down" then he probably did something right.
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Post by name_here »

Yeah, eldar are the single most arrogant and obnoxious race. I mean, chaos et. al. simply want to kill you and feed you to their gods, but the eldar are assholes who will bitch at you for interfering in their plans when you have no way to tell that they're pissing off the orcs to fend off a hive fleet.
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Post by Krusk »

We spent all 2 sessions back talking about how we were gonna go to the forbidden planet and fight demons and monsters and shit. We even decided it would be so awesome that we would wait till the RT's player was back so he didn't miss out.

Cut to this last session. Apparently this planet is forbidden because the eldar use it as "seed world". Which basically means they threw some shitty small time settlers on it, but otherwise it is a pristine awesome planet with waterfalls and tropical jungles. (The good kind with pretty flowers, not the bad kind with killer gorillas). The GM explicitly tells us there are wild "Dragons" on this planet. (See exactly what we said we wanted to do during the previous session)

Me and two other players begin laying plans to go to uninhabited parts, steal some dragons or eggs or something and do some awesome adventuring. The RT begins going on about how eldar will know and kill us for it. Then we decide that maybe we should take out this tiny settlements with our orbital lasers, and the GM goes into a "He is right they will know it was you." Thing. We explore alternatives to cover our tracks or sneak around and do it, and get steamrolled with "But they still know. They are the eldar." We are debating this in game with "But fuck that noise, I want to do this and think we can get away with it" vs "But the Eldar are space jesus".

During the debate, the GM has some giant eldar ship jump out of their special not hell-dimension warp and open comms. (AKA giant GM wang). They tells us not to go down there, but if we board they will chat with us. We agree, and they are really nice giving us presents and shit. Then they explain we ought to help them do [escort mission].

The annoying thing was that they didn't come off as arrogant at all. Simply really benevolent, and "Oh as an aside everything we have is better than yours". The GM would literally go on for a min or two about how "The [thing] is the best [thing] you have ever [used]." For literally everything described. Chairs, sandwhiches, guns, armor, clothes, speech patterns, ships, everything.

I think the worst part of this game is the GM wank setting, combined with a player who is into blowing the GM. The session without that player proved it, because I actually enjoyed it, and had thoughts like "Oh hey we can actually do something cool occasionally".

The setting seems People who kill everyone without trying > US > People who are killed by anyone no matter how hard they try not to die. So no matter what we do, we can't beat the strong foes, but also can't be hurt be the weak foes.

Again, Fuck Rogue Trader.
RiotGearEpsilon
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Post by RiotGearEpsilon »

Oh, in that case your ST is bein' a dick.
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Post by TheFlatline »

Seed worlds are only a danger if you settle on them. There aren't many Eldar left, so it might be a few hundred years before the Eldar can make it back to a seed world and check on it. If you happen to be there at the time, you're fucked, or at least are in for a bloody fight.

However, as far as showing up, plundering, and leaving, that's supremely more doable. Hell, that's what Rogue Traders are *supposed* to do.

And according to canon, Eldar would have blown you out of the stars for even *finding* the seed world if they happened to warp in. But not before opening comms with you and bitching about how you're stealing their last hope for a continued existence and how arrogant and puny your short-lived race is. Because they're dicks like that.

That's part of the problem with a setting like w40k. Everyone gets their favorite faction going, and suddenly they become infallible and ultra-kickass.

Anyway, my sympathies.
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Post by Koumei »

Be fair, Riotgear, part of the blame does lie with GW in general for making the setting and RT for being a shitty game.

Fuck the MC though. In the ear. With a radish.
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Post by Krusk »

Yeah, he is generally a lousy MC. I do think that the game is ending and will cycle to Dark Heresy soon. I keep hearing murmurs of that. I expect it is the exact same game only without the implications that our PC's might matter.

At least with a refresh on the game I can make a new character who knows his place in the setting. Some sort of groveling coward who runs from everything and everyone.

It also might give me a chance to slide in and push for a totally different game. Maybe something that doesn't suck.

I sort of knew MC D-baggery [dibs on the name for my hip-hop label] would happen when he asked me to play, because I played in DND games with him back in the day. So it was kind of my fault. It happened then too. His settings were always super grim-dark, and as I play RT I get the idea that they are WarHammer clones. In DND though, we would always just say "Well this country blows, we are leaving" until he got the hint. In official WH40K setting, the players seem to bend right over and be cool with it. (First time I have played with these players, they are your basic pazils, with the exception that for the most part they are decent enough outside of RPGs)

The worst part is, he is a genuinely good guy and its a shame that he is such an awful MC.
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Post by TheFlatline »

Dark Heresy is a better game as far as setting. You have a specific, direct purpose, and it actually feels like a more-structured game.

The downside is that you A) Make tissue paper look robust for the first level or two (not to mention that tissue paper is probably more versatile than you are) and B) Horde money unless your MC decides to be one of those blokes who dishes out equipment on the acolytes courtesy of the Inquisitor (which is kind of silly, since the inquisitor has to risk his influence to do so, and has like 5-10 cells of acolytes working for him).

All of the issues with the mechanics system originate in Dark Heresy though, so no respite there. In fact, the psyker rules are slightly worse than in RT and DeathWatch, since you can't cull back your psy rating or push yourself until you hit Ascension level and become an actual Inquisitor (or Throne Agent).

That being said, Dark Heresy plays a *lot* more like Call of Cthulhu in the GrimDark future than RT. You investigate plots, cults, and conspiracies, you pick and choose your battles carefully, and you blow the fuck out of the bad guys when you have to. You should be spending most of your time within the Imperium, or at least around the Imperium's lines of supply/support, which is a boon.

Interacting with xenos is a lot easier too. You purge the fuckers with fire and holy cleansing lead.

While Deathwatch probably has the best mechanical systems (which isn't saying much), Dark Heresy is the most playable game of the three IMHO. I was able to run a long-term campaign in DH that was engaging, and after level 3 or so combat still was dangerous, but not a slaughterhouse.

However, one of the themes of Dark Heresy, and one you need to play up in the game if you can, is that even as an acolyte (especially if you're acknowledged to be an agent of an Inquisitor), that makes you *special*. It's dangerous, but it puts you above the teeming masses. The Inquisition is almost literally the definition of power unchecked, especially for the Acolytes, who act in the name of a patron, but who usually are acting completely independent of the patron. In my game there was a real rift in the party between those who would abuse this leeway to the utmost so long as they could deliver results, and the others who felt that was betraying the ideals of the Emperor. It was probably one of the most roleplay-heavy games I've ever run, and probably in the top 5 roleplaying experiences I've ever had.
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